Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[Jamiet99uk]

The point about Maniac pushing the Bob vote as Alien and the interaction with Worcej is something I had on the back of my mind and that could point to Maniac as scum, this is probably the only thing that make feel still a bit unsure.

Could you explain this in a bit more detail?

What was suspicious about Maniac's interaction with Worcej?

[Jamiet99uk]

##Vote Maniac

[rdrivera2005]

Scum need to inform town that Bob is the Alien.
Maniac reasoning where he points to Alien Bob and his plan to have scum voting on Bob (or other suspect) in a fixed order to avoid scum outing could be a scum way to point for the Alien.
But then Worcej claimed scum out of the blue to get Damo killed. I still don't get why he did that. Maniac interaction with Worcej after this look a bit forced, but it's not out of town Maniac reach.
Ghug reactions to Damo's plan, then Maniac's plan and Worcej claim seems more natural, at least I can identify more with this, but it's also a more rational play, which is NAI.
This is giving me headache.

[rdrivera2005]

##Vote Maniac

I know this shouldn’t play a part on my decision, but I keep thinking on what Vecna will say to me if I just lose the game to Ghug on milo

[dargorygel]

Remember that scene from, “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly” in which the main characters stand in a circle and stare at each other… with the camera following their darting eyes?

That’s today.

VOTE COUNT 9.1

ghug (1) Maniac (who is hammering)
rdrivera2005 (1) ghug
maniac (1) Jamiet99uk

Not voting: rdrivera2005

[Jamiet99uk]

Scum need to inform town that Bob is the Alien.
Maniac reasoning where he points to Alien Bob and his plan to have scum voting on Bob (or other suspect) in a fixed order to avoid scum outing could be a scum way to point for the Alien.
But then Worcej claimed scum out of the blue to get Damo killed. I still don't get why he did that. Maniac interaction with Worcej after this look a bit forced, but it's not out of town Maniac reach.
Ghug reactions to Damo's plan, then Maniac's plan and Worcej claim seems more natural, at least I can identify more with this, but it's also a more rational play, which is NAI.
This is giving me headache.

If you think that Maniac is scum because of how hard he pushed his plan about Bob, then the only explanation of Worcej's reaction would be that all of this was scum theatre between Maniac and Worcej.

Is that what you think you saw?

[rdrivera2005]

Scum need to inform town that Bob is the Alien.
Maniac reasoning where he points to Alien Bob and his plan to have scum voting on Bob (or other suspect) in a fixed order to avoid scum outing could be a scum way to point for the Alien.
But then Worcej claimed scum out of the blue to get Damo killed. I still don't get why he did that. Maniac interaction with Worcej after this look a bit forced, but it's not out of town Maniac reach.
Ghug reactions to Damo's plan, then Maniac's plan and Worcej claim seems more natural, at least I can identify more with this, but it's also a more rational play, which is NAI.
This is giving me headache.

If you think that Maniac is scum because of how hard he pushed his plan about Bob, then the only explanation of Worcej's reaction would be that all of this was scum theatre between Maniac and Worcej.

Is that what you think you saw?

I honestly don't know. I didn't think it was theatre at the moment, this I can say, but on re-reading I keep thinking: why Worcej claimed thst way to get Damo killed that was the most likely kill anyway and her counter was the Alien Bob?

It could be just bad play from Worcej, but I don't see him doing this without discussing with his partner and having a plan.

Why are you voting Maniac? I was expecting you to be the last to vote.

[Maniac]

This is hilarious.

So experienced people think worceJ exposing himself when Damo was likely to be the kill was bad scum play. Bearing in mind he was item thief and two unclears couldn’t be the item thief.

But now Jamie is voting for me believing I am the secretary who wanted to tell town that Bob was the alien. Why on earth would secretary do that? It would make some kind of sense for Item thief to do it I suppose, but keeping quiet would’ve prob led to Damo death anyway.

If you actually believe this conspiracy theory Jamie, you should hang up your Mafia boots mate.

[Jamiet99uk]

This is hilarious.

So experienced people think worceJ exposing himself when Damo was likely to be the kill was bad scum play. Bearing in mind he was item thief and two unclears couldn’t be the item thief.

But now Jamie is voting for me believing I am the secretary who wanted to tell town that Bob was the alien. Why on earth would secretary do that? It would make some kind of sense for Item thief to do it I suppose, but keeping quiet would’ve prob led to Damo death anyway.

If you actually believe this conspiracy theory Jamie, you should hang up your Mafia boots mate.

When and where did I express any of the views which you have attributed to me in this post?

[Jamiet99uk]

Why are you voting Maniac? I was expecting you to be the last to vote.

I thought that's what you expected, yes.

But now I have nominated you for that honour.

[Jamiet99uk]

Current appearances:

Ghug: Tryharding, defensive, hedgy.
Maniac: Arrogant, dismissive.
Rdrivera: Dithering, delaying, uncertain.

One of these people is only putting on an act.

[Maniac]

Remember that scene from, “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly” in which the main characters stand in a circle and stare at each other… with the camera following their darting eyes?

That’s today.

VOTE COUNT 9.1

ghug (1) Maniac (who is hammering)
rdrivera2005 (1) ghug
maniac (1) Jamiet99uk

Not voting: rdrivera2005

"The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" We all know who isn't ugly...

[Jamiet99uk]

As well as commenting on the Vote Count perhaps Maniac would like to reply to me?

[Jamiet99uk]

Current appearances, updated:

Ghug: Tryharding, defensive, hedgy.
Maniac: Arrogant, narcissistic, dismissive.
Rdrivera: Dithering, delaying, uncertain.

One of these people is only putting on an act.

[Maniac]

Current appearances, updated:

Ghug: Tryharding, defensive, hedgy.
Maniac: Arrogant, narcissistic, dismissive.
Rdrivera: Dithering, delaying, uncertain.

One of these people is only putting on an act.

I was born beautiful and get more handsome with age, just telling it like it is.

I don't know what to tell you about the game. If anyone thinks worceJ and I devised a stupid scum plan which risked exposing both of us just so I could say that's too stupid at end of game, then they should vote for me and face ridicule in the god thread.

I know it's harder for you Jamie as you have three unclears, but my decision is easy. I think in a game with a third party and day mafia chat rdriveria would have been advised to keep himself anonymous so that they could feed us info about the Alien if needs be. There is no other use for the walkie-talkie thread apart from clearing players of one scum role (which he could've done later if needs be). Re-reading and posting length detailed reads isn't going tp change my mind.

So that leaves Ghug. Do I think he would kill Kgray for shits and giggles? Yes. Do I think he would keep Jamie alive until alien was dead? Yes. Do I think he has has done anything that screams town? No. The closest he gets to town is his D1 vote hopping between three people who turned out to be town, but that's hardly great proof.

We still need to agree our target and end before 11pm UK time. I'm not going to shift my vote, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I've stated my reasons.

[Jamiet99uk]

Current appearances, updated:

Ghug: Tryharding, defensive, hedgy.
Maniac: Arrogant, narcissistic, dismissive.
Rdrivera: Dithering, delaying, uncertain.

One of these people is only putting on an act.

I was born beautiful and get more handsome with age, just telling it like it is.

I don't know what to tell you about the game. If anyone thinks worceJ and I devised a stupid scum plan which risked exposing both of us just so I could say that's too stupid at end of game, then they should vote for me and face ridicule in the god thread.

I know it's harder for you Jamie as you have three unclears, but my decision is easy. I think in a game with a third party and day mafia chat rdriveria would have been advised to keep himself anonymous so that they could feed us info about the Alien if needs be. There is no other use for the walkie-talkie thread apart from clearing players of one scum role (which he could've done later if needs be). Re-reading and posting length detailed reads isn't going tp change my mind.

So that leaves Ghug. Do I think he would kill Kgray for shits and giggles? Yes. Do I think he would keep Jamie alive until alien was dead? Yes. Do I think he has has done anything that screams town? No. The closest he gets to town is his D1 vote hopping between three people who turned out to be town, but that's hardly great proof.

We still need to agree our target and end before 11pm UK time. I'm not going to shift my vote, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I've stated my reasons.

This is better.

Still, why did you assert that I had expressed views which I had not, in fact, expressed?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Rdrivera: Why are you still not voting?

[ghug]

I’m not surprised that Ghug has voted rdriveria whilst leaving himself room to flip to me.

I don’t buy the “Scum!Ghug doesn’t let PRs live” line. Perhaps Ghug could make a case for this in a vanilla game, but Jamie was exposed early in a game with a powerful third party and his role was just as important to scum as it was to us. We should also remember that Ghug isn’t the Gunman and scum wasn’t a bunch of newbies that would bow down to Ghug’s demand to kill Jamie.

I can see some merit in Ghug’s argument that he would’ve tried to dissuade worceJ from claiming scum, but as Ghug rightly points out worceJ has a mind of his own and may have ignore Ghug’s pleadings. I do agree with Ghug that it was poor scum play from WorceJ.

I think Ghug suggestion that Jasnah was killed because of something she said in the walkie-talkie QT is just him throwing shade onto the other two non-clears.

Overall I’m not convinced by anything Ghug has said. I want to be alive to the fact I could be tunnelling, but I don’t think I am. I’m happy to take primary responsibility for Ghug’s flip.

• I really came out pretty strongly in support of you. Highlighting the things that give me pause isn't the same as leaving myself an out.

• There was nothing suggesting Jamie was the researcher specifically night one, when I claim I would have killed him, and there were two other clears to kill when jasnah died.

• My point with worcej is that it makes magnitudes more sense if someone other than me is the partner, since I've been the kill of choice for a while.

[ghug]

Day 5:

• The whole Jamie scan/Vecna kit happens. A lot of people talking about it. No worcej in sight.

• Votes for damo when we think he was scanned alien. Votes for celaph once Jamie comes clean.

• Talks a fair amount of alien mechanics.

• Mafia reads Fox and either ghug or worcej.

• Gets annoyed at Maniac for outing the satellite QT. Lots of questions about that.

Maniac is correct.

This part is not accurate.

Rdrivera even acknowledges that it was he, not Maniac, who outted the Satellite Phone QT:

Also, if we are lucky and Celaph is Alien we can get back to going after scum. I still think Fox is the most likely and Worcej or Ghug the second one.

Maniac could be the Secretary but he isn't Item Thief as he was in Sat QT since D1 with me and Jasnah (Alien already has this info so I decided to disclose it). Anyway, not my first choice to flip as he has 50% less chance to be scum.

Comment on this, Ghug?

Yeah, I realized I had it backwards when writing the Maniac post. There was some bit of the discussion where rd was annoyed at Maniac and they were discussing it, so I mixed it up. It doesn't involve interactions with scum, so I don't see it as a super critical detail.

[ghug]

@Rdrivera:
Let's have your thoughts today.

As the one remaining clear, all three of you should be trying to persuade me.

Yes, I know. Anyway, if you have a question to me, just throw it.

I confess I liked the Ghug work today, just didn't like his conclusions. One of the reasons I was Alien/scum reading Ghug is his lack of engagement (not post volume, but tone, almost a lack of emotions), something I expect more from non-town Ghug.

The point about Maniac pushing the Bob vote as Alien and the interaction with Worcej is something I had on the back of my mind and that could point to Maniac as scum, this is probably the only thing that make feel still a bit unsure.

I don't like the Ghug wifon on NK targets. Jasnah choice for example, looks a lot more Ghug's choice then Maniac, why kill someone who will push Vecna with other town (me) in the next day. Only reason for Maniac to kill Jasnsh is some crumb in the QT, but I didn't see any, or something on EMCs deleted posts, but I didn't read them.

I pushed Vecna the next day too, so I'm not sure why that would look more like me than Maniac.

Nightkills aren't always WIFOM. There are often better strategies for some people that are worth considering.

If Jamie had died last night, for example, it would be somewhat reasonable to conclude that I had done it because Vecna had recently townread me. I imagine I would have killed Vecna anyway to avoid that, so it's not a point in my favor, but the other result would have been telling.