Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[BobMcBob]

Please remember my volte face from my suicidal vote was in light of the info a kit holder can target themselves.

Tbh I wasn't expecting that answer because of the use of the word 'another' in the set up.

still, you know well enough that we couldnt trust you to both have a kit and use it on yourself in the case you were alien and lying

the whole "i know im innocent so shut up and take me at my word despite everything" approach doesnt sit well with me

[BobMcBob]

As Celaph is only person now we have a positive alien scan on them ##vote Celaph is a no brained.

Be interesting to see what Damo result is. I don’t understand why Jamie says Damo reaction was organic. If Damo is alien his response is the same as far as I can see. If Damo is Alien he now knows he has a scan result being exposed tomorrow? Does that mean if Jamie dies tonight we have to kill Damo, or what if Jamie dies by alien hands that set Damo up for DK, have we just gifted the alien the game?

Clearly we disagree; I'm just being honest that Damo's reaction felt genuine to me. That's my opinion.

If someone has a save, I'm sure I'd appreciate it tonight.

Presumably the Mafia won't be foolish enough to kill me, but I assume the Alien will want to.

Btw, the mafia knew you were lying.

how is this the case?

[BobMcBob]

I dont know if I agree with this change of voting.

All the reasons to vote damo still sort of exist. His reaction has been off. He saved the kit wtih a reason.

At least Rdrivera is cleared of being the alien, and I feel with how he has been pushing people, I can treat him more or less as a townclear.

im still a fan of going after damo at some point, maybe tomorrow, but definitely not today

[ghug]

You're going to regret this in like four hours, but ok.

What an odd comment.

This literally comes across like Ghug signalling "on my command, the Mafia are going to take control".

What the utter fuck?

No, you're going to regret it because you'll be bored, obviously.

Well, I'm not a fan of it. Since it will likely just lead to a really, really long night phase, how is that actually any better?

You'll note that my end vote came before the two hour mark and has since been dropped.

[rdrivera2005]

##unend

I feel that when the game lose momentum it usually doesn't end well for town.

[damo666]

Well, I'm not a fan of it. Since it will likely just lead to a really, really long night phase, how is that actually any better?

Because once celaph has flipped we'll have something to discuss. We can explore all kind of what is scenarios dependent on night results. I think it would actually be quite useful.

It's no particular advantage to Mafia rather than town since they have daychat.

I honestly think that the stage we have got to we better off ending.

I'd even go so far as to say I think it's scummy NOT to end.

[Jamiet99uk]

Btw, the mafia knew you were lying.

how is this the case?

This has now been explained. The Secretary, while alive, gets partial info from my scans.

[BobMcBob]

Btw, the mafia knew you were lying.

how is this the case?

This has now been explained. The Secretary, while alive, gets partial info from my scans.

ah, yep, ok

[ghug]

Btw, the mafia knew you were lying.

how is this the case?

This has now been explained. The Secretary, while alive, gets partial info from my scans.

Holy townslips, Batman!

[Jamiet99uk]

how is this the case?

This has now been explained. The Secretary, while alive, gets partial info from my scans.

Holy townslips, Batman!

Oh yes because everyone was scumreading Bob until just now.

[BobMcBob]

This has now been explained. The Secretary, while alive, gets partial info from my scans.

Holy townslips, Batman!

Oh yes because everyone was scumreading Bob until just now.

i sure am glad that i set up that fake townslip so everybody would stop thinking i was the secretary

[rdrivera2005]

how is this the case?

This has now been explained. The Secretary, while alive, gets partial info from my scans.

Holy townslips, Batman!

If this is a townslip half the players townslipped.

[ghug]

This has now been explained. The Secretary, while alive, gets partial info from my scans.

Holy townslips, Batman!

If this is a townslip half the players townslipped.

Yes, we can also be reasonably confident Jamie and celaph aren't mafia now. Damo's known for pretending to be stupid, so his can't be trusted.

[BobMcBob]

I honestly don't think you're the alien right now, but I don't think you want us to not kill you, so this is where we are.

What do you think we should be analyzing exactly?

Do you think as town that I would want to get killed here? To Vecna's point I don't think we insta-lose by doing so, but I don't think it helps us besides removing an option of a wagon for people to just join without standing out.

I'm really curious why Jamie found Damo's reaction organic as I had the opposite reaction. Maniac has probably earned himself another look given his activity level, but I don't recall anything there that screamed alien to me. Just a general surprise at how easy I found his thought process to follow.

I don't think the alien is among Jamie, rdr, Bob or you. Vecna's been acting towny though something in my gut feels off, I just don't see a case there to warrant that being the push. That leaves Fox and worcej in a middle category that I feel kinda meh about with regard of being alien. They haven't really done anything that makes me thing they are more likely to be alien, but they haven't earned a townread by any means.

I can't be Alien, unless you believe Jamiet is lying. I think you have a 50% chance to be the Alien which is a decent shot.
If you are town and want to be useful, look at D1 and try to figure who would infect you. That's what we will have to do tomorrow if you flip town and Jamiet can't get an Alien scum.

theres a really tiny chance that you absorbed dna and are still alien, but its really unlikely and should be mostly ignored

[Maniac]

Also, if we are lucky and Celaph is Alien we can get back to going after scum. I still think Fox is the most likely and Worcej or Ghug the second one.

Maniac could be the Secretary but he isn't Item Thief as he was in Sat QT since D1 with me and Jasnah (Alien already has this info so I decided to disclose it). Anyway, not my first choice to flip as he has 50% less chance to be scum.

I don’t know why disclosing that you and I have sat phones is a good idea. I was hoping scum would try and steal one of them thinking we had something good, but never mind, the world now knows. It has taken me til now to realise that holding a phone and having that corroborated makes it very unlikely either of us are the item thief. My guess is an item thief with a phone watches the thread but never posts so they can then discard the phone and go stealing.

If we could hit the secretary then we become almost scum clear. I could still be alien of course, but let’s hope Celaph is.

I’m really not sure if Celaph is our best play at the moment. I have this feeling we are missing something. So let’s chat...

What if Vecna is alien and also holds the kit? He would choose to not use the kit and say he has used it when he is really infecting rdriveria. So we could still have 3 infected players plus alien even if we kill Celaph. Infected one more tonight gives him the game.

What if Damo is the alien and kills Jamie tonight? Or say Ghug is alien and kills Jamie tonight in effect framing Damo. Then who do we kill tomorrow?

I don’t think Celaph is the alien. If I’m the alien I know I can only really win when I get through to around night five, so why would I use a single goggles so early in the game. From alien POV we’re all enemies so finding out who is scum early wouldn’t be Celaph best option when his goggles are more likely to fail.

Yes Celaph had alien DNA and had it early, so he could be the alien, but I just don’t have that read from him.

Should we be taking a chance and killing someone else tonight? Sometimes to win a game we have to take a risk. I’m obviously aware that by going against the grain that I could become the DK. I’m not alien but I could be infected, idk.

What happens if we killed me, Ghug, Vecna or worcesJ? Any one us could be infect or from neutral POV could be the alien. Is that a better kill, does that then force scum to try and kill Celaph? A no NK would mean it failed and we kill him tomorrow but that also takes away a scum kill which helps town.

All this is really thinking out loud. I don’t have the answer to who is the best kill today, just think we should explore more possibilities. I also think Celaph has to give us much more of his thoughts.

[rdrivera2005]

Also, if we are lucky and Celaph is Alien we can get back to going after scum. I still think Fox is the most likely and Worcej or Ghug the second one.

Maniac could be the Secretary but he isn't Item Thief as he was in Sat QT since D1 with me and Jasnah (Alien already has this info so I decided to disclose it). Anyway, not my first choice to flip as he has 50% less chance to be scum.

I don’t know why disclosing that you and I have sat phones is a good idea. I was hoping scum would try and steal one of them thinking we had something good, but never mind, the world now knows. It has taken me til now to realise that holding a phone and having that corroborated makes it very unlikely either of us are the item thief. My guess is an item thief with a phone watches the thread but never posts so they can then discard the phone and go stealing.

If we could hit the secretary then we become almost scum clear. I could still be alien of course, but let’s hope Celaph is.

I’m really not sure if Celaph is our best play at the moment. I have this feeling we are missing something. So let’s chat...

What if Vecna is alien and also holds the kit? He would choose to not use the kit and say he has used it when he is really infecting rdriveria. So we could still have 3 infected players plus alien even if we kill Celaph. Infected one more tonight gives him the game.

What if Damo is the alien and kills Jamie tonight? Or say Ghug is alien and kills Jamie tonight in effect framing Damo. Then who do we kill tomorrow?

I don’t think Celaph is the alien. If I’m the alien I know I can only really win when I get through to around night five, so why would I use a single goggles so early in the game. From alien POV we’re all enemies so finding out who is scum early wouldn’t be Celaph best option when his goggles are more likely to fail.

Yes Celaph had alien DNA and had it early, so he could be the alien, but I just don’t have that read from him.

Should we be taking a chance and killing someone else tonight? Sometimes to win a game we have to take a risk. I’m obviously aware that by going against the grain that I could become the DK. I’m not alien but I could be infected, idk.

What happens if we killed me, Ghug, Vecna or worcesJ? Any one us could be infect or from neutral POV could be the alien. Is that a better kill, does that then force scum to try and kill Celaph? A no NK would mean it failed and we kill him tomorrow but that also takes away a scum kill which helps town.

All this is really thinking out loud. I don’t have the answer to who is the best kill today, just think we should explore more possibilities. I also think Celaph has to give us much more of his thoughts.

At this point I don't believe Item Thief have more charges (he started with 3) so it's pointless to hold this info. And if Alien infected me he already knew who had the phones.
Also, Item Thief from what I understand start with no item, so we can't be IT.
Your points about Celaph not bring alien is valid, but we don't have an option. If we kill another player that's not Alien and not infected it's probably Alien win. Scum can't kill the Alien even if they want.
Also, your lack of understanding of the basics on the setup is giving me some pause. You didn't read the setup or you are trying to force a townslip?

[ghug]

Also, if we are lucky and Celaph is Alien we can get back to going after scum. I still think Fox is the most likely and Worcej or Ghug the second one.

Maniac could be the Secretary but he isn't Item Thief as he was in Sat QT since D1 with me and Jasnah (Alien already has this info so I decided to disclose it). Anyway, not my first choice to flip as he has 50% less chance to be scum.

I don’t know why disclosing that you and I have sat phones is a good idea. I was hoping scum would try and steal one of them thinking we had something good, but never mind, the world now knows. It has taken me til now to realise that holding a phone and having that corroborated makes it very unlikely either of us are the item thief. My guess is an item thief with a phone watches the thread but never posts so they can then discard the phone and go stealing.

If we could hit the secretary then we become almost scum clear. I could still be alien of course, but let’s hope Celaph is.

I’m really not sure if Celaph is our best play at the moment. I have this feeling we are missing something. So let’s chat...

What if Vecna is alien and also holds the kit? He would choose to not use the kit and say he has used it when he is really infecting rdriveria. So we could still have 3 infected players plus alien even if we kill Celaph. Infected one more tonight gives him the game.

What if Damo is the alien and kills Jamie tonight? Or say Ghug is alien and kills Jamie tonight in effect framing Damo. Then who do we kill tomorrow?

I don’t think Celaph is the alien. If I’m the alien I know I can only really win when I get through to around night five, so why would I use a single goggles so early in the game. From alien POV we’re all enemies so finding out who is scum early wouldn’t be Celaph best option when his goggles are more likely to fail.

Yes Celaph had alien DNA and had it early, so he could be the alien, but I just don’t have that read from him.

Should we be taking a chance and killing someone else tonight? Sometimes to win a game we have to take a risk. I’m obviously aware that by going against the grain that I could become the DK. I’m not alien but I could be infected, idk.

What happens if we killed me, Ghug, Vecna or worcesJ? Any one us could be infect or from neutral POV could be the alien. Is that a better kill, does that then force scum to try and kill Celaph? A no NK would mean it failed and we kill him tomorrow but that also takes away a scum kill which helps town.

All this is really thinking out loud. I don’t have the answer to who is the best kill today, just think we should explore more possibilities. I also think Celaph has to give us much more of his thoughts.

First, I'm torn on whether the claim was the right call. This may have been a time for crumbs, as y'all can clear each other of being item thief and can't both be teammates (unless you've killed off all the real sat phone holders, I suppose, but given jasnah's comments, that'd need to be two of bona, brain, and the secretary starting with sat phones, which isn't actually as unlikely as I thought it was when I started writing this...), but that's also info that would have been unfortunate to lose, so it's not the worst thing. We've still got unclaimed base pass(es), the daykill immunity thing, and the triage kit off the top of my head, which are probably all appealing steals.

As for the rest of it, I outlined it pretty clearly earlier. It's maaaybe worth it to shoot for the alien if we're really confident about it, but killing anyone other than celaph risks us losing the game overnight, entirely dependent on the mafia hitting someone who isn't the alien and is infected without any info to help them make that choice, which is not something I'm especially keen on.

[ghug]

@Maniac, why didn't you just damo, Fox, or Bob with you, me, Vecna, and worcej in your potential alternate kills?

[Maniac]

@Maniac, why didn't you just damo, Fox, or Bob with you, me, Vecna, and worcej in your potential alternate kills?

I should’ve listed everyone. I don’t think Jamie should’ve said who he scanned last night but now he has Damo is a bad kill today. Jamie may not be targeted or targeted and saved tonight so we get Damo info tomorrow.

[Maniac]

@ghug we don’t have to be super confident we’d hit the alien if we vote for someone other than Celaph. Hitting someone else who is infected would also extend the game for us.

So people we shouldn’t kill today

Jamie (obviously) yep he could be infected but he can keep getting scan results. I also think he would’ve been a poor alien infection target once he was almost clear. Alien would’ve reasoned that scum would kill him before EOG

Damo, because we find out if he has alien DNA tomorrow if Jamie survives the night

Bob - would the alien kill scum if they had a gun and the RA was exposed? I think not. Also unlikely infected because alien would reason an almost clear would be NK by scum before EOG

Rdriveria - not alien if Vecna is to be believed.

Celaph - for the reasons I stated earlier an unlikely alien and the purpose of this exercise we’re considering a non-Celaph kill.

Which leaves five of us possibly three of us are infected and one of us is likely alien. I know that we could’ve already killed an infected person and their is a chance Rdriveria was infected and cured the same night so it’s not quite a 4/5 chance we hit alien DNA, but if we’ve already killed an infected player or RDriveria was infected and cured then there is less urgency to kill alien DNA anyway.

Also if we are almost clearing Celaph of being scum then even if we miss alien and alien DNA we could still hit scum and still be in the game if an infected person has already died or been cured.

So I’m summary Celaph isn’t a bad kill and in many ways the safe bet, but if we wanted to take a chance there are other options for today’s kill.