Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[Jamiet99uk]

Call me dumb, But it's impossible for Thamrick is alien. We have an insane deputy. Thamrick scanned Not Area 51, so his TRUE identity is Area 51. The alien scans as 'Not area 51' as a true identity even when he is framed. Therefore Thamrick has to be scum (not MiB) or a framed townie or possibly a framed MiB. Am I misreading something here?

You have got this the wrong way around:

I have been told that my scan result is incorrect. THAMRICK ACTUALLY SCANNED AS AREA-51.

Thamrick CANNOT be Mafia. But he CAN be Alien.

He can still be the MiB or a mafia that was framed by the MiB

Yes.
Fair.
Ok.

I don't think he's town.

[worcej]

Yeah, there are twelve of us left. There's a very plausible worst case scenario here where we come into tomorrow with 5 infected and 5 clean, and then we have to kill the alien, or we have to kill infected and then scum have to kill infected, or we lose. If someone's been camping, we could lose even sooner, but I'm going to assume that hasn't happened, since it was highlighted pretty early that camping shouldn't happen.

There are up to three reverse alien DNA kits, two if brain was telling the truth, but there's no indication that we learn if those are successful (##CALLGM Does the user of a reverse DNA kit learn anything about whether the item did anything?) so while we could heal celaph, that wouldn't do anything to delay an alien win if he is in fact the alien, and we have no way of knowing if he is.

Now, it's likely we're not in the worst case scenario, but it isn't particularly likely, since nobody that unexpected has died, and we're also going to have to kill celaph at some point regardless, either because he's a likely alien candidate and we need to catch the alien or because the alien appears to be able to win even if they're dead (##CALLGM is this accurate?), so we can't really let him get to a small endgame if that's where we're headed.

If there were no alien in the game, we'd have two miskills before MILO with the mafia, so the alien is the primary threat right now.

##VOTE celaph

I disagree. Your basing things of a worst case scenario whereas a player infected N1 will only have a 50/50 chance of still being alive when we reach the halfway point. Add to that that Jamie can keep getting scans off and we may be able to detect infected people later with VCA if alien takes control and alien isn’t the primary threat right now. We might also hit them by accident whilst scum hunting. Killing a likely town because he is infected right now isn’t good play imho.

I’m happy with Fox or Tham kills.

Your 50/50 analysis is rather off. There are several people, like myself, who typically do not get NK'ed early based off meta.

A smart alien player familiar with the players here could make choices on infections that are more likely to be around then not.

[worcej]

Also, why is there less than a page of new stuff lol?

Itd be great of some people would start contributing so we can read em.

Also, people that wanna clear fox just over the gm mistake, thats some dumb shit since its not confirmed whether a gm mistake was actually made.

Either it was made, and he's probably non-scum (like, that worcej theory makes so little sense), or he's lying about the gm mistake to make his claim of item-theft seem more credible by making up out-of-the-ordinary circumstances surrounding it. Its super-lame to use in this game thats already so plagued by errors, but with how butthurt brainbomb was earlier, id think scum are VERY LIKELY to be in the mindset to now use the gm nonsense to their benefit.

Not saying my theory is great. I'm a victim of crazy WIFOM and I know it.

[worcej]

Yeah, there are twelve of us left. There's a very plausible worst case scenario here where we come into tomorrow with 5 infected and 5 clean, and then we have to kill the alien, or we have to kill infected and then scum have to kill infected, or we lose. If someone's been camping, we could lose even sooner, but I'm going to assume that hasn't happened, since it was highlighted pretty early that camping shouldn't happen.

I think anyone who has been to the RV Campsite must now tell us if this has occurred?

I declare that have I not been to a campsite.

I demand that others clarify their own campsite status. Seriously please do this. We need to know.

I have not been to a campsite either.

[worcej]

It is Day Four.
EMC was eliminated on Day Two and still has more posts than Maniac + Thamrick combined.

This is actually kinda disturbing now that you highlight this...

[worcej]

My non-town-pool is currently Thamrick, Maniac and Damo.

If I am wrong about one of those, possibly Ghug or Vecna.

Only after eliminating these possibilities would I seriously consider Foxcastle.

Can I get some explanation on Maniac and damo?

[dargorygel]

##call GM - this should be obvious, but just checking "The Alien wins when a majority of players are infected." So I read 'infected' as being as soon as they are infected not waiting until they scan Alien DNA. And I read it as being the game stops as soon as the majority is reached, so if it's 5 infected and 4 not infected the game stops, we can't DK/NK infected players to overturn that win condition and finally can you confirm the alien can be dead and still win?

a) Infected means infected, not detectable.
b) A dead alien can still win, if the majority of players are infected.

[Vecna]

The longer this game goes on, the more I do feel that something is minorly -off- about Celaph.

Going through his entire iso, he's only doing short-fire statements all game long.

Not a single long wall with free-flowing thoughts that I can follow of his progression. He always does these, interchanged with short messages as town, in like a 30-70 distribution.

The only post that showed this a little was his very good readslist (you know the one im talking about). Here he only made one short mention of a potential alien candidate, and it was more of a by the way, it could also be mr alien.

As alien, this level of scumhunting comes naturally natural.

His response today to the jamiet result seemed pretty good. The response of "I wasnt camping, so its only one N1 infection" also felt good at the surface. But is that really the first thing that comes to your mind as infected town? Or is it something you think of to say to sound towny? Im not certain.

Having typed all that, the previous gm reply just suddenly gave me a good idea for a followup question

[Vecna]

##call GM - this should be obvious, but just checking "The Alien wins when a majority of players are infected." So I read 'infected' as being as soon as they are infected not waiting until they scan Alien DNA. And I read it as being the game stops as soon as the majority is reached, so if it's 5 infected and 4 not infected the game stops, we can't DK/NK infected players to overturn that win condition and finally can you confirm the alien can be dead and still win?

a) Infected means infected, not detectable.
b) A dead alien can still win, if the majority of players are infected.

what? are you kidding with point B?



(im sorry but that is just ridiculous)

[Vecna]

##call GM:

If the alien himself is targetted with the reverse alien DNA, what result will the user of that item receive?

[Vecna]

##call GM - this should be obvious, but just checking "The Alien wins when a majority of players are infected." So I read 'infected' as being as soon as they are infected not waiting until they scan Alien DNA. And I read it as being the game stops as soon as the majority is reached, so if it's 5 infected and 4 not infected the game stops, we can't DK/NK infected players to overturn that win condition and finally can you confirm the alien can be dead and still win?

a) Infected means infected, not detectable.
b) A dead alien can still win, if the majority of players are infected.

what? are you kidding with point B?



(im sorry but that is just ridiculous)

Like, if a single infected person makes it to 3-way lylo, the alien wins by default. Even if he was killed on D2 or whatever, he can win the game by making a lucky infection choice on N1.

[Vecna]

eh guess thats not accurate since 50% isnt a majority but joh

[worcej]

Look at Thamrick actually participating after I've stamped on his balls for long enough.

That's an image...

[worcej]

So to be clear:

Mafia:
Maniac and Damo and one of Ghug or Vecna

Alien:
Thamrick. If not Thamrick then possibly Celaph or Rdrivera.

Call me dumb, But it's impossible for Thamrick is alien. We have an insane deputy. Thamrick scanned Not Area 51, so his TRUE identity is Area 51. The alien scans as 'Not area 51' as a true identity even when he is framed. Therefore Thamrick has to be scum (not MiB) or a framed townie or possibly a framed MiB. Am I misreading something here?

He was actually Area 51, this was corrected later by the GMs.

[worcej]

##call GM - this should be obvious, but just checking "The Alien wins when a majority of players are infected." So I read 'infected' as being as soon as they are infected not waiting until they scan Alien DNA. And I read it as being the game stops as soon as the majority is reached, so if it's 5 infected and 4 not infected the game stops, we can't DK/NK infected players to overturn that win condition and finally can you confirm the alien can be dead and still win?

a) Infected means infected, not detectable.
b) A dead alien can still win, if the majority of players are infected.

what? are you kidding with point B?



(im sorry but that is just ridiculous)

Point B makes me much more confident that celaph needs to be flipped or a DNA item used on him ASAP.

[Foxcastle]

a) Infected means infected, not detectable.
b) A dead alien can still win, if the majority of players are infected.

what? are you kidding with point B?



(im sorry but that is just ridiculous)

Point B makes me much more confident that celaph needs to be flipped or a DNA item used on him ASAP.

There should be 3 DNA items, right? The question is how to make sure one of them actually gets used without duplicative waste of other kits.

[ghug]

I disagree. Your basing things of a worst case scenario whereas a player infected N1 will only have a 50/50 chance of still being alive when we reach the halfway point. Add to that that Jamie can keep getting scans off and we may be able to detect infected people later with VCA if alien takes control and alien isn’t the primary threat right now. We might also hit them by accident whilst scum hunting. Killing a likely town because he is infected right now isn’t good play imho.

I’m happy with Fox or Tham kills.

Why do you say I'm likely town?

Because you helped catch scum! Sure you could be some kind of double agent or Alien but I'm leaning heavily town who has been infected.

Alien would work to catch mafia too.

A player infected N1 will have a 100% chance of still being alive if they're celaph, and none of our dead people make a ton of sense as N1 infection targets.

[ghug]

So to be clear:

Mafia:
Maniac and Damo and one of Ghug or Vecna

Alien:
Thamrick. If not Thamrick then possibly Celaph or Rdrivera.

Call me dumb, But it's impossible for Thamrick is alien. We have an insane deputy. Thamrick scanned Not Area 51, so his TRUE identity is Area 51. The alien scans as 'Not area 51' as a true identity even when he is framed. Therefore Thamrick has to be scum (not MiB) or a framed townie or possibly a framed MiB. Am I misreading something here?

You have got this the wrong way around:

I have been told that my scan result is incorrect. THAMRICK ACTUALLY SCANNED AS AREA-51.

Thamrick CANNOT be Mafia. But he CAN be Alien.

He can be the godfathery one, or he could have been framed by that one. That makes more sense to me than alien.

[Jamiet99uk]

My non-town-pool is currently Thamrick, Maniac and Damo.

If I am wrong about one of those, possibly Ghug or Vecna.

Only after eliminating these possibilities would I seriously consider Foxcastle.

Can I get some explanation on Maniac and damo?

Both are coasting horribly and Damo has been totally lacking his usual interest in analysing and looking for clues. Even Maniac is less performative than usual. Neither of them seem to care.

[ghug]

what? are you kidding with point B?



(im sorry but that is just ridiculous)

Point B makes me much more confident that celaph needs to be flipped or a DNA item used on him ASAP.

There should be 3 DNA items, right? The question is how to make sure one of them actually gets used without duplicative waste of other kits.

The hard thing is that if the alien has one, it's pretty easy for them to pretend to use it, and then we're at the must-kill scenario and not realizing it.