Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[worcej]

It's not that I wasn't around, it's that I was distracted and didn't think about it until it was too late.

So, you forgot both during D2 and D3 to save our cop? Bona claimed D2.

Also, you were talking and discussing about ending. You were calling for people to endvote. You endvoted yourself. Using that as a reason for your own defense....

yeah im not sure im buying any of this.

No, now you're trying to tar me over not using it D2—which is a shitty thing to do—when that was my decision not to, as the scum team would have had to possibly be outguessing the shaman.

And yes, I got distracted during EOD and it slipped because it's a little idiotic that the item has to be activated during the preceding day. How many items operate like that?

Almost all of the items, since the IT's adjudication goes before all the items use.

The IT could steal a vest away from a target before the NK goes through if the vest wearer didn't put it on during the day phase.

[Foxcastle]

So, you forgot both during D2 and D3 to save our cop? Bona claimed D2.

Also, you were talking and discussing about ending. You were calling for people to endvote. You endvoted yourself. Using that as a reason for your own defense....

yeah im not sure im buying any of this.

No, now you're trying to tar me over not using it D2—which is a shitty thing to do—when that was my decision not to, as the scum team would have had to possibly be outguessing the shaman.

And yes, I got distracted during EOD and it slipped because it's a little idiotic that the item has to be activated during the preceding day. How many items operate like that?

Almost all of the items, since the IT's adjudication goes before all the items use.

The IT could steal a vest away from a target before the NK goes through if the vest wearer didn't put it on during the day phase.

My point is this is unusual overall and an common approach compared to most items in most mafia games.

[Vecna]

Regardless, either fox is a naughty naughty liar.

Or the GM forgot about the item thieving, meaning scum likely reminded the gm and he resolved it at the 68m mark.

Option 2 means that Tham and Rdrivera are very very unlikely to be the item thief. Any other persons that werent around at that timeframe?

[Vecna]

maniac too i guess

[Vecna]

anyways, time for my beauty sleep. goodnight fellow turtle aficionados.

[Foxcastle]

Regardless, either fox is a naughty naughty liar.

Or the GM forgot about the item thieving, meaning scum likely reminded the gm and he resolved it at the 68m mark.

Option 2 means that Tham and Rdrivera are very very unlikely to be the item thief. Any other persons that werent around at that timeframe?

I don't think it clears anyone, since the GMs simply remembering that my PM wasn't sent is a perfectly plausible explanation too.

[Jamiet99uk]

Regardless, either fox is a naughty naughty liar.

Or the GM forgot about the item thieving, meaning scum likely reminded the gm and he resolved it at the 68m mark.

Option 2 means that Tham and Rdrivera are very very unlikely to be the item thief. Any other persons that werent around at that timeframe?

Actually Rdrivera showed up a little over 1 hour after EoN so he'd be a prime suspect surely, if you really want to go with this little theory?

[Jamiet99uk]

I just really, really want Thamrick to die. Is that too much to ask?

[Foxcastle]

I just really, really want Thamrick to die. Is that too much to ask?

No, it's not too much. ##VOTE THAMRICK

[ghug]

Regardless, either fox is a naughty naughty liar.

Or the GM forgot about the item thieving, meaning scum likely reminded the gm and he resolved it at the 68m mark.

Option 2 means that Tham and Rdrivera are very very unlikely to be the item thief. Any other persons that werent around at that timeframe?

I'm already uneasy drawing conclusions from GM error on the tham front, and that one has no plausible explanation if he's town (unless bona switched late, I suppose, but I feel like he would have told us that). Forgot to PM seems plenty plausible here.

[TheMadMonarch]

It's not that I wasn't around, it's that I was distracted and didn't think about it until it was too late.

So, you forgot both during D2 and D3 to save our cop? Bona claimed D2.

Also, you were talking and discussing about ending. You were calling for people to endvote. You endvoted yourself. Using that as a reason for your own defense....

yeah im not sure im buying any of this.

No, now you're trying to tar me over not using it D2—which is a shitty thing to do—when that was my decision not to, as the scum team would have had to possibly be outguessing the shaman.

And yes, I got distracted during EOD and it slipped because it's a little idiotic that the item has to be activated during the preceding day. How many items operate like that?

I'm actually inclined to believe Fox here, it's not an unreasonable mistake, especially during the BB crisis.

[TheMadMonarch]

##VOTE tham

[Maniac]

Whilst I hate to draw any conclusion from a possible GM mistake, once mistakes are made we can’t unsee the implications. I think it is far more likely a GM forgets to send the PM when he knows the person being stolen from already knows he has been stolen from: ie Fox is scum and the item shifted to keep hold of it.

That said we don’t need to kill Fox today, killing Tham first is also good.

##vote Tham

[ghug]

Whilst I hate to draw any conclusion from a possible GM mistake, once mistakes are made we can’t unsee the implications. I think it is far more likely a GM forgets to send the PM when he knows the person being stolen from already knows he has been stolen from: ie Fox is scum and the item shifted to keep hold of it.

That said we don’t need to kill Fox today, killing Tham first is also good.

##vote Tham

Why do you prefer Tham to Fox?

[ghug]

I'm kinda feeling like we should kill celaph.

[ghug]

Yeah, there are twelve of us left. There's a very plausible worst case scenario here where we come into tomorrow with 5 infected and 5 clean, and then we have to kill the alien, or we have to kill infected and then scum have to kill infected, or we lose. If someone's been camping, we could lose even sooner, but I'm going to assume that hasn't happened, since it was highlighted pretty early that camping shouldn't happen.

There are up to three reverse alien DNA kits, two if brain was telling the truth, but there's no indication that we learn if those are successful (##CALLGM Does the user of a reverse DNA kit learn anything about whether the item did anything?) so while we could heal celaph, that wouldn't do anything to delay an alien win if he is in fact the alien, and we have no way of knowing if he is.

Now, it's likely we're not in the worst case scenario, but it isn't particularly likely, since nobody that unexpected has died, and we're also going to have to kill celaph at some point regardless, either because he's a likely alien candidate and we need to catch the alien or because the alien appears to be able to win even if they're dead (##CALLGM is this accurate?), so we can't really let him get to a small endgame if that's where we're headed.

If there were no alien in the game, we'd have two miskills before MILO with the mafia, so the alien is the primary threat right now.

##VOTE celaph

[Maniac]

Yeah, there are twelve of us left. There's a very plausible worst case scenario here where we come into tomorrow with 5 infected and 5 clean, and then we have to kill the alien, or we have to kill infected and then scum have to kill infected, or we lose. If someone's been camping, we could lose even sooner, but I'm going to assume that hasn't happened, since it was highlighted pretty early that camping shouldn't happen.

There are up to three reverse alien DNA kits, two if brain was telling the truth, but there's no indication that we learn if those are successful (##CALLGM Does the user of a reverse DNA kit learn anything about whether the item did anything?) so while we could heal celaph, that wouldn't do anything to delay an alien win if he is in fact the alien, and we have no way of knowing if he is.

Now, it's likely we're not in the worst case scenario, but it isn't particularly likely, since nobody that unexpected has died, and we're also going to have to kill celaph at some point regardless, either because he's a likely alien candidate and we need to catch the alien or because the alien appears to be able to win even if they're dead (##CALLGM is this accurate?), so we can't really let him get to a small endgame if that's where we're headed.

If there were no alien in the game, we'd have two miskills before MILO with the mafia, so the alien is the primary threat right now.

##VOTE celaph

I disagree. Your basing things of a worst case scenario whereas a player infected N1 will only have a 50/50 chance of still being alive when we reach the halfway point. Add to that that Jamie can keep getting scans off and we may be able to detect infected people later with VCA if alien takes control and alien isn’t the primary threat right now. We might also hit them by accident whilst scum hunting. Killing a likely town because he is infected right now isn’t good play imho.

I’m happy with Fox or Tham kills.

[celaph]

Yeah, there are twelve of us left. There's a very plausible worst case scenario here where we come into tomorrow with 5 infected and 5 clean, and then we have to kill the alien, or we have to kill infected and then scum have to kill infected, or we lose. If someone's been camping, we could lose even sooner, but I'm going to assume that hasn't happened, since it was highlighted pretty early that camping shouldn't happen.

There are up to three reverse alien DNA kits, two if brain was telling the truth, but there's no indication that we learn if those are successful (##CALLGM Does the user of a reverse DNA kit learn anything about whether the item did anything?) so while we could heal celaph, that wouldn't do anything to delay an alien win if he is in fact the alien, and we have no way of knowing if he is.

Now, it's likely we're not in the worst case scenario, but it isn't particularly likely, since nobody that unexpected has died, and we're also going to have to kill celaph at some point regardless, either because he's a likely alien candidate and we need to catch the alien or because the alien appears to be able to win even if they're dead (##CALLGM is this accurate?), so we can't really let him get to a small endgame if that's where we're headed.

If there were no alien in the game, we'd have two miskills before MILO with the mafia, so the alien is the primary threat right now.

##VOTE celaph

I disagree. Your basing things of a worst case scenario whereas a player infected N1 will only have a 50/50 chance of still being alive when we reach the halfway point. Add to that that Jamie can keep getting scans off and we may be able to detect infected people later with VCA if alien takes control and alien isn’t the primary threat right now. We might also hit them by accident whilst scum hunting. Killing a likely town because he is infected right now isn’t good play imho.

I’m happy with Fox or Tham kills.

Why do you say I'm likely town?

[celaph]

To add to ghug's question: ##call GM does the Shaman know if their ritual removed alien DNA from their target?

[Maniac]

Yeah, there are twelve of us left. There's a very plausible worst case scenario here where we come into tomorrow with 5 infected and 5 clean, and then we have to kill the alien, or we have to kill infected and then scum have to kill infected, or we lose. If someone's been camping, we could lose even sooner, but I'm going to assume that hasn't happened, since it was highlighted pretty early that camping shouldn't happen.

There are up to three reverse alien DNA kits, two if brain was telling the truth, but there's no indication that we learn if those are successful (##CALLGM Does the user of a reverse DNA kit learn anything about whether the item did anything?) so while we could heal celaph, that wouldn't do anything to delay an alien win if he is in fact the alien, and we have no way of knowing if he is.

Now, it's likely we're not in the worst case scenario, but it isn't particularly likely, since nobody that unexpected has died, and we're also going to have to kill celaph at some point regardless, either because he's a likely alien candidate and we need to catch the alien or because the alien appears to be able to win even if they're dead (##CALLGM is this accurate?), so we can't really let him get to a small endgame if that's where we're headed.

If there were no alien in the game, we'd have two miskills before MILO with the mafia, so the alien is the primary threat right now.

##VOTE celaph

I disagree. Your basing things of a worst case scenario whereas a player infected N1 will only have a 50/50 chance of still being alive when we reach the halfway point. Add to that that Jamie can keep getting scans off and we may be able to detect infected people later with VCA if alien takes control and alien isn’t the primary threat right now. We might also hit them by accident whilst scum hunting. Killing a likely town because he is infected right now isn’t good play imho.

I’m happy with Fox or Tham kills.

Why do you say I'm likely town?

Because you helped catch scum! Sure you could be some kind of double agent or Alien but I'm leaning heavily town who has been infected.