Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[Maniac]

Can we not just let Vecna decide this for us please?

What would you like to tell us, Ghug?

Here is a mantle of leadership.
Now is your time.
Step up. Come on.

First, I don't see any reason we should be assuming Vecna's town, so taking him at face value is a mistake. I've returned from vacation, so I may have time to discuss this in more depth soon.

Second, I've laid out why I don't think the massclaim is a good idea. Making people claim at EoN is never going to work, and I find it hard to believe that scum won't have stolen at least two items by the time the night is over, giving them plausible ability to claim things for the one or two scum who can't claim their true initial item, even before considering that for many items, we don't know exactly how many were in play to begin with, and that we're never going to know what kgray was holding or have more than an educated guess on Chaqa. Then there's the fact that giving scum item info lets them target their steals and their kills accordingly, and it seems obvious to me that an item claim is more pro-scum than pro-town.

+1

[Jamiet99uk]

Ah Maniac.
Who are your top three scumreads?

[ghug]

Or bring up some good arguments why we shouldnt.

Thats fine as well.

I've explained twice now why I'm against it.

And you're obvtown because what, exactly? Because you vaguely shaded Bunny for days without ever actually pushing him?

[Maniac]

Ah Maniac.
Who are your top three scumreads?

Fox, Foxtail and Foxy

[celaph]

If we're doing an item claim then I must say that I have an exceptionally strong item and scum would do their best to steal it from me pronto. I would truly hate it if my item just happened to disappear as it definitely has a chance to catch scum.

[celaph]

Ah Maniac.
Who are your top three scumreads?

Fox, Foxtail and Foxy

Don't deflect. Actual answer?

[Foxcastle]

I agree that a lot of people won't participate and that the scum team probably have stolen enough items to have viable claims, so I'm not sure what this gets us. The only mitigating factor is that the shaman might have talked to a dead player to learn their item, but again, how do you tell a "sorry, I missed EON" townie from a "sorry, I need an excuse not to claim" scum?

Also, are we sure every player got an item? Because there are 21 players and I count max 20 items. So there's yet another out for scum who don't want to claim.

[Foxcastle]

Ah Maniac.
Who are your top three scumreads?

Fox, Foxtail and Foxy

Rude.

[celaph]

I agree that a lot of people won't participate and that the scum team probably have stolen enough items to have viable claims, so I'm not sure what this gets us. The only mitigating factor is that the shaman might have talked to a dead player to learn their item, but again, how do you tell a "sorry, I missed EON" townie from a "sorry, I need an excuse not to claim" scum?

Also, are we sure every player got an item? Because there are 21 players and I count max 20 items. So there's yet another out for scum who don't want to claim.

The item thief didn't start with an item and the Gunman started with just the wetwork kit and nothing more. As best as I know, everyone else gets one.

[Vecna]

Or bring up some good arguments why we shouldnt.

Thats fine as well.

I've explained twice now why I'm against it.

And you're obvtown because what, exactly? Because you vaguely shaded Bunny for days without ever actually pushing him?

the fact youre not recognizing it will reflect a lot poorer on you than it will on me buddy. Aint nobody daykilling me this game

[Jamiet99uk]

Ah Maniac.
Who are your top three scumreads?

Fox, Foxtail and Foxy

That's one, said three times.

Do you have any others?

And, what was your initial thought when you saw Brainbomb talking about taking you on a mythical camping trip?

[Maniac]

Ah Maniac.
Who are your top three scumreads?

Fox, Foxtail and Foxy

That's one, said three times.

Do you have any others?

And, what was your initial thought when you saw Brainbomb talking about taking you on a mythical camping trip?

My initial thoughts were if I had to go camping, going with BrainBomb wouldn’t be my first choice.

You noticed I repeated the same person three times huh, it seems Thamick is mechanical caught. If I have other reads I’ll let people know.

[ghug]

Or bring up some good arguments why we shouldnt.

Thats fine as well.

I've explained twice now why I'm against it.

And you're obvtown because what, exactly? Because you vaguely shaded Bunny for days without ever actually pushing him?

the fact youre not recognizing it will reflect a lot poorer on you than it will on me buddy. Aint nobody daykilling me this game

See, you're not the Jamie sort who softs PR like this under minimal pressure, which means it's just the normal NAI machismo.

https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?u ... nnyGo&g=65
Here I see a lot of you talking about Bunny with minimal interaction and never an actual vote.

It's actually strikingly similar to your Durga ISO last game:
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?u ... rga&g=1016
You did vote for her there, but only when it was obvious she was going to be a wagon.

I also feel like brain probably spent at least half of D3 trying to actively distance from a teammate, and you're an excellent candidate for that.

[Vecna]

Or bring up some good arguments why we shouldnt.

Thats fine as well.

I've explained twice now why I'm against it.

And you're obvtown because what, exactly? Because you vaguely shaded Bunny for days without ever actually pushing him?

Also, just because scum stole 2 items at least doesnt mean they cant be caught.

The shaman has the talk to the dead ability. If they were told that an item was stolen from a dead person, that effectively outs a scum.

So once again, it gives us an opportunity to catch scum.

Its not like theres items still left that are at risk of being stolen. And if they are - just use em tonight

[Jamiet99uk]

Fox, Foxtail and Foxy

That's one, said three times.

Do you have any others?

And, what was your initial thought when you saw Brainbomb talking about taking you on a mythical camping trip?

My initial thoughts were if I had to go camping, going with BrainBomb wouldn’t be my first choice.

You noticed I repeated the same person three times huh, it seems Thamick is mechanical caught. If I have other reads I’ll let people know.

I assume therefore for the time being your only scumreads are Thamrick and Foxedict Foxerbatch. Ok.

[ghug]

Or bring up some good arguments why we shouldnt.

Thats fine as well.

I've explained twice now why I'm against it.

And you're obvtown because what, exactly? Because you vaguely shaded Bunny for days without ever actually pushing him?

Also, just because scum stole 2 items at least doesnt mean they cant be caught.

The shaman has the talk to the dead ability. If they were told that an item was stolen from a dead person, that effectively outs a scum.

So once again, it gives us an opportunity to catch scum.

Its not like theres items still left that are at risk of being stolen. And if they are - just use em tonight

The containment field seems pretty obviously worth stealing. The triage kit, vest, and base passes are all much more effective if scum doesn't know where they are, either because they can steal them, target outside of them, or predict how their holders will use them.

[Vecna]

I've explained twice now why I'm against it.

And you're obvtown because what, exactly? Because you vaguely shaded Bunny for days without ever actually pushing him?

the fact youre not recognizing it will reflect a lot poorer on you than it will on me buddy. Aint nobody daykilling me this game

See, you're not the Jamie sort who softs PR like this under minimal pressure, which means it's just the normal NAI machismo.

https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?u ... nnyGo&g=65
Here I see a lot of you talking about Bunny with minimal interaction and never an actual vote.

It's actually strikingly similar to your Durga ISO last game:
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?u ... rga&g=1016
You did vote for her there, but only when it was obvious she was going to be a wagon.

I also feel like brain probably spent at least half of D3 trying to actively distance from a teammate, and you're an excellent candidate for that.

Except there were actual votes and I actually did a lot of trying to convince people to vote Bunny with me. Compare that to last game where I didnt do any convincing and gave town a big possibility to wagon people like Kgray (and bona, which actually went through). Kgray even called me out for that shit.

Also, brain didnt try to distance shit from me. He made the same dumb mistake that Bunny made and tried to undermine me from solving and questioning people. He scumslipped all over the place because he couldnt win the arguments, and because he felt mad because he's losing and took it out on me because he cant handle the town happyness.

In fact, youre doing the exact same thing Bunny did D1. Trying to throw iso's at me, and making poorly thought out comparisons that are not similar at all.

[Vecna]

I've explained twice now why I'm against it.

And you're obvtown because what, exactly? Because you vaguely shaded Bunny for days without ever actually pushing him?

Also, just because scum stole 2 items at least doesnt mean they cant be caught.

The shaman has the talk to the dead ability. If they were told that an item was stolen from a dead person, that effectively outs a scum.

So once again, it gives us an opportunity to catch scum.

Its not like theres items still left that are at risk of being stolen. And if they are - just use em tonight

The containment field seems pretty obviously worth stealing. The triage kit, vest, and base passes are all much more effective if scum doesn't know where they are, either because they can steal them, target outside of them, or predict how their holders will use them.

Why would scum still have item thief charges left after tonight though?

At the moment of claiming, they very well mightve already used up the large part.

Base passes - why would you not use them tonight if for some reason you havent yet? The Poe pool is super obvious.

The containtment field should be actively wasted tomorrow if a town still has it. If youre going to get misskilled, at this stage of the game you just need to eat it, or we'll just waste 2 days and auto-lose.

Triage kit? save our PRs tonight, pretty please.

[ghug]

the fact youre not recognizing it will reflect a lot poorer on you than it will on me buddy. Aint nobody daykilling me this game

See, you're not the Jamie sort who softs PR like this under minimal pressure, which means it's just the normal NAI machismo.

https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?u ... nnyGo&g=65
Here I see a lot of you talking about Bunny with minimal interaction and never an actual vote.

It's actually strikingly similar to your Durga ISO last game:
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?u ... rga&g=1016
You did vote for her there, but only when it was obvious she was going to be a wagon.

I also feel like brain probably spent at least half of D3 trying to actively distance from a teammate, and you're an excellent candidate for that.

Except there were actual votes and I actually did a lot of trying to convince people to vote Bunny with me. Compare that to last game where I didnt do any convincing and gave town a big possibility to wagon people like Kgray (and bona, which actually went through). Kgray even called me out for that shit.

Also, brain didnt try to distance shit from me. He made the same dumb mistake that Bunny made and tried to undermine me from solving and questioning people. He scumslipped all over the place because he couldnt win the arguments, and because he felt mad because he's losing and took it out on me because he cant handle the town happyness.

In fact, youre doing the exact same thing Bunny did D1. Trying to throw iso's at me, and making poorly thought out comparisons that are not similar at all.

You voted for Bunny twice this game. The first was on D1, when he had no other votes. You made a few posts about him, didn't encourage anyone to join you, and then left for Chaqa after less than two hours. The second was late on D2, well after other wagons had formed. You insisted you wanted him dead, but again made little effort to actually push the wagon, and then moved off onto a wagon you didn't like to save Foxcastle, who you townread without justification until you finished saving him, at which point you decided to scumread him.

[ghug]

And go ahead and tell me who brain was distancing from if it wasn't you, cause it sure as fuck wasn't nobody.