Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[BobMcBob]

You had several scumreads last night, what happened to all of them? They can't all be invalidated by Bunny's flip.

More weirdness from Brainbomb.

to be fair, this was in response to a rather amusing splling mistake by rdr
although does brain have any reads right now?

Yes, he reads you as the Alien.

anything other than wacko left field alien theories?
like actual scumreads?

[brainbomb]

yea bob keep pretending youve not read stuff

[Jamiet99uk]

yea bob keep pretending youve not read stuff

Why are you pretending you're happy to endhammer Thamrick when your vote is not on Thamrick?

[BobMcBob]

yea bob keep pretending youve not read stuff

im back on page 186 right now actually, i have read nothing between that and 194

[Jamiet99uk]

Make a note of Brainbomb's performative stupidity here, it's fake.

[ghug]

Make a note of Brainbomb's performative stupidity here, it's fake.

Is it though? I don't think I've ever seen anyone react this blatantly to a teammate being caught.

[celaph]

And HR is gonna jizz all over me if I just wrongfully townbinned damo and he was right that damo/ghug are naughty instead

yea you arent the alien

Why do you specifically say alien here? Why not just scum in general?

[celaph]

Jamie how do you feel about basing thamricks alignment off of GM error

What do you think we should do given the context? If I was Tham I'd be pissed about it, but we're playing with the deck we've been dealt. It also feels like you're targeting Jamie because you're expecting a specific reaction here.

[celaph]

Thamrick has scanned as not-area-51.

This all but confirms me as the insane cop.

Sweet! Also way to get another scum!

I'm sure it's in here, but why is the day not hammering him?

Is Worcej the kind of person that would try and fake not knowing this for towncred?

[celaph]

because then we dont waste a daykill on obv!scum and can vote other things
he was gonna die anyway, lets use the votes better
thats the best way to use vig shots as far as ive heard

I don’t know what you’ve heard, but it’s bad advice.

If you had are town with a gun and have two strong scum reads a 100% on bunny and 70% on someone else. Shoot the someone else and let Bunny be daykilled. That way two big scum reads die. Now you have to press for a daykill on you’re 70% scum read and scum can influence and block that kill.

Shooting confirmed scum is just bad play. But we are where we are. Who are your top scum reads?

This is inane.

If you shoot someone else, you learn nothing about how others would have voted for them, or who they would have pushed instead, or who would have tried to save them. You've effectively given scum cover and prevented town from hunting. And then everyone piles on the known scum for the day vote, and hey, whaddya know! You learn nothing from that either. This approach zeroes out any useful information for town and helps scum avoid doing anything to out themselves during the day.

Bob did the right thing, and I think he's town for it. If scum had been given the M16 at the start of game, they'd use it to shoot a townie and never claim it, and I think in this game they seem like they would been likely to use it (like they did the ray gun) on D1 to create confusion and give themselves a big head start.

This.

[BobMcBob]

I don’t know what you’ve heard, but it’s bad advice.

If you had are town with a gun and have two strong scum reads a 100% on bunny and 70% on someone else. Shoot the someone else and let Bunny be daykilled. That way two big scum reads die. Now you have to press for a daykill on you’re 70% scum read and scum can influence and block that kill.

Shooting confirmed scum is just bad play. But we are where we are. Who are your top scum reads?

This is inane.

If you shoot someone else, you learn nothing about how others would have voted for them, or who they would have pushed instead, or who would have tried to save them. You've effectively given scum cover and prevented town from hunting. And then everyone piles on the known scum for the day vote, and hey, whaddya know! You learn nothing from that either. This approach zeroes out any useful information for town and helps scum avoid doing anything to out themselves during the day.

Bob did the right thing, and I think he's town for it. If scum had been given the M16 at the start of game, they'd use it to shoot a townie and never claim it, and I think in this game they seem like they would been likely to use it (like they did the ray gun) on D1 to create confusion and give themselves a big head start.

This.

this was part of my rationale for shooting when i did (although not a big part)
because if you have a runaway wagon then theres basically no vca to be had

[ghug]

This is inane.

If you shoot someone else, you learn nothing about how others would have voted for them, or who they would have pushed instead, or who would have tried to save them. You've effectively given scum cover and prevented town from hunting. And then everyone piles on the known scum for the day vote, and hey, whaddya know! You learn nothing from that either. This approach zeroes out any useful information for town and helps scum avoid doing anything to out themselves during the day.

Bob did the right thing, and I think he's town for it. If scum had been given the M16 at the start of game, they'd use it to shoot a townie and never claim it, and I think in this game they seem like they would been likely to use it (like they did the ray gun) on D1 to create confusion and give themselves a big head start.

This.

this was part of my rationale for shooting when i did (although not a big part)
because if you have a runaway wagon then theres basically no vca to be had

Yeah, there are three good things to do with a gun. You did one of them. The other two are killing the lead wagon at a predetermined time and threatening people with it. Once there's an outed scum, yours is the best choice.

[ghug]

This is boring.

##VOTE Foxygen

[brainbomb]

4. killing vash

is always acceptable too

[ghug]

4. killing vash

is always acceptable too

I thought it was Ezio.

[brainbomb]

4. killing vash

is always acceptable too

I thought it was Ezio.

5. killing ezio

[celaph]

Updated reads list
Macca — Conftown
Bona — All but conftown. Especially given that the GM confirmed that someone got bad information after Bona claimed it.
Jamiet99uk — Uncc’d PR. More likely to be lying than Bona, though that's still very likely. Bad kill for the foreseeable future.
rdr — His thoughts this game have aligned especially well with mine and has felt all around genuine. Very likely town.
Vecna — I think that Vecna’s approach to solving this game has been very towny even if it felt off to me at a few points. I shared some of rd.’s paranoia about Vecna Bunny interactions being SvS, but my fears have been mostly relaxed on reread of them. Particularly the way that Vecna forced Bunny to stay in the conversations as he did here. I also like the way that he has been suspicious of me today, feels natural. Likely town and very likely not mafia. 
BobMcBob — I liked the way that he handled the Bunny shot. ##Call GM: The Gunman learns of their kill’s role by pm, not through the scum QT, correct? Also, I doubt that Bob calls attention to the Bunny Vecna interaction like he did if he was afraid that Bunny was going to die because of it. Probably town and likely not mafia if scum don’t immediately learn gunman results.
ghug — His posting style has been considerably different this game, though that’s probably not alignment indicative. I feel like he has been sharp at times, particularly earlier on, but I get the feeling that scum ghug could pull this off. I like how he handled Jamie’s PR status and claim. He didn’t have a ton of interactions with Bunny and he had nothing that felt particularly scummy nor particularly clearing. Lean town.
damo/worcej — I feel like both had incredibly lackluster D1-N2s and have done well this D3. Damo I think having the worse D1-N2 and the better D3 of the two. Perhaps there is scum here feeling a need to pick it up, but it hasn’t felt forced so far. Lean town (but I feel better about damo than worcej).
————— I want to kill below this line ——————
Foxcastle — I get why Fox’s behavior is suspicious, but on reread I don’t get the feeling that Bunny and Fox were teammates; he had no hesitation when it came to voting him. Though he did ultimately join lfischl’s wagon so maybe he was just distancing. Or maybe this is our alien. Null.
Maniac — So little content here. That said, nothing that makes me think definitely scum. Mostly just here by PoE. The one thing that draws my eye is that Maniac’s logic has been easier to follow than I remember. Like his Foxcastle sus D2 follows directly from a question directed at him N1. I’m not sure if this behavior is alignment indicative, but I like it. Null.
Brainbomb — I had bb down as null to town lean before today, but I feel like he’s been the opposite of Damo and worcej and his posts today are trash. He feels angry and is lacking the sharpness that I liked from him earlier with his dealing of Jamie for example. Null to scumlean.
Thamrick — Not a sexy wagon by any means, but I understand why it’s here. No reason to townread him and the GM mistake seems to look bad for him. I feel bad for him dying this way, but I can’t really imagine that even as town he will be helping us solve. Scumlean.

##vote Tham

[brainbomb]

can you like put some breaks in between the names and make it readable

[celaph]

Updated reads list for BB (though I agree the other one kinda looked trash. My b):
Macca — Conftown

Bona — All but conftown. Especially given that the GM confirmed that someone got bad information after Bona claimed it.

Jamiet99uk — Uncc’d PR. More likely to be lying than Bona, though that's still very likely. Bad kill for the foreseeable future.

rdr — His thoughts this game have aligned especially well with mine and has felt all around genuine. Very likely town.

Vecna — I think that Vecna’s approach to solving this game has been very towny even if it felt off to me at a few points. I shared some of rd.’s paranoia about Vecna Bunny interactions being SvS, but my fears have been mostly relaxed on reread of them. Particularly the way that Vecna forced Bunny to stay in the conversations as he did here. I also like the way that he has been suspicious of me today, feels natural. Likely town and very likely not mafia. 


BobMcBob — I liked the way that he handled the Bunny shot. ##Call GM: The Gunman learns of their kill’s role by pm, not through the scum QT, correct? Also, I doubt that Bob calls attention to the Bunny Vecna interaction like he did if he was afraid that Bunny was going to die because of it. Probably town and likely not mafia if scum don’t immediately learn gunman results.

ghug — His posting style has been considerably different this game, though that’s probably not alignment indicative. I feel like he has been sharp at times, particularly earlier on, but I get the feeling that scum ghug could pull this off. I like how he handled Jamie’s PR status and claim. He didn’t have a ton of interactions with Bunny and he had nothing that felt particularly scummy nor particularly clearing. Lean town.

damo/worcej — I feel like both had incredibly lackluster D1-N2s and have done well this D3. Damo I think having the worse D1-N2 and the better D3 of the two. Perhaps there is scum here feeling a need to pick it up, but it hasn’t felt forced so far. Lean town (but I feel better about damo than worcej).

————— I want to kill below this line ——————

Foxcastle — I get why Fox’s behavior is suspicious, but on reread I don’t get the feeling that Bunny and Fox were teammates; he had no hesitation when it came to voting him. Though he did ultimately join lfischl’s wagon so maybe he was just distancing. Or maybe this is our alien. Null.

Maniac — So little content here. That said, nothing that makes me think definitely scum. Mostly just here by PoE. The one thing that draws my eye is that Maniac’s logic has been easier to follow than I remember. Like his Foxcastle sus D2 follows directly from a question directed at him N1. I’m not sure if this behavior is alignment indicative, but I like it. Null.

Brainbomb — I had bb down as null to town lean before today, but I feel like he’s been the opposite of Damo and worcej and his posts today are trash. He feels angry and is lacking the sharpness that I liked from him earlier with his dealing of Jamie for example. Null to scumlean.

Thamrick — Not a sexy wagon by any means, but I understand why it’s here. No reason to townread him and the GM mistake seems to look bad for him. I feel bad for him dying this way, but I can’t really imagine that even as town he will be helping us solve. Scumlean.

##vote Tham

[brainbomb]

BobMcBob - Very solid townread. Solid questioning, plenty thoughts. Big fan.

Bonatogether -clear

celaph - Pretty great all around. Normally I'd say that two scum being up for grabs D3 is unlikely and with my scumread on fox getting stronger that should rule celaph out; and thats before ever even pondering how he caught bunny. but with two scumteam dying today, celaph as scum??? that logic doesn't hold up. town

damo666 - Find his vote pattern to be the worst of anyone, as the timing of his vote on BunnyGo after that wagon had clearly died really sticks out as bad, and looks more like a way for him to cover up a more direct flip onto fisch. Has done essentially nothing else of note, and could conceivably have been protecting either rdrivera *or* celaph D1. There's been very little questioning and no strange damoish thought processes going on either. Scum.

DemonRHK - Don't like the way he left the rdrivera wagon and refused the opportunity to return it when the Bunny wagon died. Don't understand how he got those early townreads either, and he *did* feel very awkward & defensive in his entrance. Slight scum

ghug - Not entirely sure. I felt his game to be very anterior compared to last game early on but was apparently an outlier on that thought. Given he openly said after last game that he'd tailored his play specifically to get certain people including myself to townread him I'm also pretty wary that he might be doing the same thing again in the other direction. Regarding the rest of his day he felt more like himself but if rdrivera is scum he looks really bad. Still, he did at least break the tie. Null

Macca573 - Clear but Very low presence, I can barely remember anything they've done this game. Given I recollect them being a pretty solid townread last time they played this gives me very similar vibes to the sort I was getting off of HB early last game, and I definitely think Macca needs to play more

Maniac - Exists. Nothing to really say, although the VCA looks pretty good for him if either rdrivera *or* celaph is scum, which is noteworthy as that's pretty much unique. Null

rdrivera2005 - His D1 was very lazy, just like last game, but his N1 has been worse. He almost seems to be parodying his own game from last time: Come in with a much weaker OMGUS on me that this time makes no sense whatsoever both because I initially didn't scumread him and also because I wasn't anywhere near the hardest pusher of him D1. I don't remotely understand why he'd claim that he softed something D1 both because I saw no such soft and because who the hell comes in and says that they've softed something unless it's during a hardclaim anyway? The VCA also makes it look look like rdrivera is the most likely person to have been saved D1. All in all, pretty strong scumread now.

Vecna - Exists. Has done nothing. Will probably get killed anyway. Null.