Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[Foxcastle]

Just had some random thoughts. That might explain the very weird Foxcastle wagon yesterday, that seemed to come out of nowhere.

The gamestate really read that most people were ambivalent towards fox, or thought he was town. Then suddenly yesterday that wagon popped off, while the only reason that was presented, going by my memory (i probably missed 1 actual reason, but w/e) - is that he sounds ANGRY this game.

Are you the alien Fox?

It just really feels like the mafia targetted you with something and got an immune response, so now theyre trying to kill you.

So many scumlords were on the fox wagon with shit reasoning.

I am not the alien, no. But I agree that the reasoning most people have used to vote me is lazy and/or moronic, and I doubt that changed in the last few hours of the day.

And yet you've been angriliy attacking people all game, yet have turned into a passive poodle now

I told people when I signed up that I was not going to be playing fast and loose here.

[BunnyGo]

Just had some random thoughts. That might explain the very weird Foxcastle wagon yesterday, that seemed to come out of nowhere.

The gamestate really read that most people were ambivalent towards fox, or thought he was town. Then suddenly yesterday that wagon popped off, while the only reason that was presented, going by my memory (i probably missed 1 actual reason, but w/e) - is that he sounds ANGRY this game.

Are you the alien Fox?

It just really feels like the mafia targetted you with something and got an immune response, so now theyre trying to kill you.

So many scumlords were on the fox wagon with shit reasoning.

I am not the alien, no. But I agree that the reasoning most people have used to vote me is lazy and/or moronic, and I doubt that changed in the last few hours of the day.

And yet you've been angriliy attacking people all game, yet have turned into a passive poodle now

What does that say to you?

[Jamiet99uk]

I will assume a PR claim is legit until there's a CC.

And if kgray was unfortunately the PR and Jamie/Bona is getting away with something, I'll pay off to that.

Um excuse me Bunny, Macca did NOT claim PR. Macca claimed to have a scanning item, the Pass. Macca is a VT and did not claim otherwise.

I'm referring to your and Bona's PR claim...

But... you were responding to a conversation about Macca's role. Each post is not an isolated island existing in a context-free zone, it's a chain of points and responses.

[Jamiet99uk]

Bona, did you ask the GM's if you flip with your sanity revealed?

If you did not ask, why the fuck not?

If you did ask, and the answer is yes, why have you not just been scanning other people?

It is Night 2.

How many people do you think he's had the opportunity to scan at this point?

I'll give you a clue. Its a number between one and one.

[BobMcBob]

The people that voted Fox (some unvoted):

Brainbomb
Bunny
Ghug
Maniac
Rdrivera
Thamrick
Bona

Cross-reference that with your scumreads people. Realize they werent protecting a teammate (unless damo is scum).

I think this was scum trying to take out the alien. And theres at least 3 scum in that group.

this rabbithole is a steaming hot pile of garbage and please take your head out of it sooner rather than later
i would be very surprised if there are three mafia in that group you got there
my scumreads only contain roughly two of those people
i think a lot of people, including myself, got pinged by foxs tone and mood, which you (and fox) seem to be completely discounting here

[ghug]

Alternatively, this was just bussing day and my read on Fox is dogshit and he's scum.

But the number of suspicious people on that wagon..

Maybe im just seeing things. Maybe im onto something?

Can you explain why you townread Fox?

For my part, the abrasive tone itself isn't the issue, it just seems like he's using it as cover for not doing much of substance, and he's doing all the little scummy things (asking about mafia experience, loudly noting that he won't be around at EoD when he's on the block, vaguely shading everyone on his wagon rather than trying to use his perspective to read people).

Several of those things did happen after I voted, but when I voted I knew I was leaving and voted for the scummiest person with votes.

[Vecna]

Could totally see a scum connection between brainbomb + FoxCastle here though.

For those who wanna read along and check my cliffnotes, go to brainbombs iso and do a fox search

-Initial open voting on P1 and some weird interactions
-Some strange back and forth reads (not uncommon for brainbomb though)
-Random comments all throughout the game making mention of him being sad fox isnt more active
-Complimenting random Fox stuff. Answering random Fox questions. Loads of interactions that are not really brainbomb usual style
-Comments that Foxxies angry style is his normal town game. Mentions examples of him fighting balki and EMC
-Calls the fox wagon very random yesterday
-Says fox is not memorable. Asks what is scummy about Fox
-Then just jumps on Fox. Finds reasons afterwards to justify it:

ive ignored fox and its dramatic how awkward these reads mismatch with his overall play style

-Then is the DECISIVE vote in dismantling the fox wagon and setting up lfischl as the defacto kill for the day with 8 minutes to go (swinging it from 7-6 to 8-5 AFTER claiming lfischl isnt a great wagon and finding reasons to vote Fox).


This actually has all the traditional hallmarks of a Scum-Scum pairing, complete with panicked bussing and saving fox when the opportunity presented itself.

[Foxcastle]

Alternatively, this was just bussing day and my read on Fox is dogshit and he's scum.

But the number of suspicious people on that wagon..

Maybe im just seeing things. Maybe im onto something?

I am skeptical that this was alien hunting, when the simpler explanation is that it was just TvT and they didn't have to worry.

Youre a fool if you think scum is more afraid of town than of the alien at this point

Scum had no motivation to try and eliminate lfischl yesterday, because that play he did completely ruled him out of being the alien.

I don't think scum is more afraid of town than the alien at this point. I think scum operates under a lot of constraints and often aren't in a position to do what they want to do and often happily settle for killing off townies at EOD rather than making it obvious that they were trying to engineering the wagons they wanted.

Since I'm not the alien, either they don't think that and were happy to see two townies go up for the kill, or they do think that but they're wrong, so ... I'm not sure what that means, actually.

[Vecna]

Bona, did you ask the GM's if you flip with your sanity revealed?

If you did not ask, why the fuck not?

If you did ask, and the answer is yes, why have you not just been scanning other people?

It is Night 2.

How many people do you think he's had the opportunity to scan at this point?

I'll give you a clue. Its a number between one and one.

thats a 100% failrate if he couldve gotten more answers from the GM than he couldve gotten from scanning himself.

[Jamiet99uk]

The people that voted Fox (some unvoted):

Brainbomb
Bunny
Ghug
Maniac
Rdrivera
Thamrick
Bona

Cross-reference that with your scumreads people. Realize they werent protecting a teammate (unless damo is scum).

I think this was scum trying to take out the alien. And theres at least 3 scum in that group.

this rabbithole is a steaming hot pile of garbage and please take your head out of it sooner rather than later
i would be very surprised if there are three mafia in that group you got there
my scumreads only contain roughly two of those people
i think a lot of people, including myself, got pinged by foxs tone and mood, which you (and fox) seem to be completely discounting here

This is very assertive, combative language, considering you're arguing about whether there are three scum in that group, or only two, Bob. You're suggesting Vecna might be 2/3 right, so why are you being so aggressive?

[BobMcBob]

Do we need the AK to shoot soon? We're at 6 scum and 10 town (and at least 1 NK/night). If AK shoots and misses tomorrow, we're at 6-8. Should AK just hold in case we go past KiLo and needs to claw back? Should shoot now?

assuming of course that one exists, this is a good question to think about
i have little idea how to approach this honestly, although a shot tomorrow might not be too bad

I feel at this points its safe to say that we better hope it doesnt exist.

It feels like its firmly in alien/scum hands. If not, keep in mind scum stole an item N1, probably used it N2, and can likely use it again N3.

If they stole N1 from someone alive (seems unlikely since noone spoke up, but it still might be the case they tried to steal from someone without an item) - then they have a 1/7 or 1/8 chance I believe to steal the AK if its actually in town hands. These odds get drastically better if they have more knowledge on other items, for example if Jasnah is town. (yes I chose those words on purpose)

that would be all nice and nice, but what if it does?
do we ask it to shoot tomorrow to make sure it doesnt get stolen?
tonight even?
i think its pretty safe to say if scum had it it would already have been used, so it is either in town hands or doesnt exist
so if it does exist, what should town do?

[Vecna]

Alternatively, this was just bussing day and my read on Fox is dogshit and he's scum.

But the number of suspicious people on that wagon..

Maybe im just seeing things. Maybe im onto something?

Can you explain why you townread Fox?

For my part, the abrasive tone itself isn't the issue, it just seems like he's using it as cover for not doing much of substance, and he's doing all the little scummy things (asking about mafia experience, loudly noting that he won't be around at EoD when he's on the block, vaguely shading everyone on his wagon rather than trying to use his perspective to read people).

Several of those things did happen after I voted, but when I voted I knew I was leaving and voted for the scummiest person with votes.

Its purely a tone thing. Ive equated Fox being angry and feisty with him being town. Him as scum is normally a bland tone where he sounds like Bozo, doesnt rustle any feathers, and just sort of "exists, but just barely".

[Jamiet99uk]

Bona, did you ask the GM's if you flip with your sanity revealed?

If you did not ask, why the fuck not?

If you did ask, and the answer is yes, why have you not just been scanning other people?

It is Night 2.

How many people do you think he's had the opportunity to scan at this point?

I'll give you a clue. Its a number between one and one.

thats a 100% failrate if he couldve gotten more answers from the GM than he couldve gotten from scanning himself.

The GM's answer would only have become useful on his death.

Maybe he wants to catch scum while he is alive. That's not a totally unreasonable aspiration.

Why do you want the deputy to die?

[Vecna]

assuming of course that one exists, this is a good question to think about
i have little idea how to approach this honestly, although a shot tomorrow might not be too bad

I feel at this points its safe to say that we better hope it doesnt exist.

It feels like its firmly in alien/scum hands. If not, keep in mind scum stole an item N1, probably used it N2, and can likely use it again N3.

If they stole N1 from someone alive (seems unlikely since noone spoke up, but it still might be the case they tried to steal from someone without an item) - then they have a 1/7 or 1/8 chance I believe to steal the AK if its actually in town hands. These odds get drastically better if they have more knowledge on other items, for example if Jasnah is town. (yes I chose those words on purpose)

that would be all nice and nice, but what if it does?
do we ask it to shoot tomorrow to make sure it doesnt get stolen?
tonight even?
i think its pretty safe to say if scum had it it would already have been used, so it is either in town hands or doesnt exist
so if it does exist, what should town do?

Item thief has priority over all other night actions, so theres no point in firing the gun during the night.

Maybe if the holder has a high chance of death.

If its still in town hands, shooting it tomorrow during the day is best. It wouldve been far better to discharge it into lfischls face yesterday, but that ship has sailed.

[Foxcastle]

Alternatively, this was just bussing day and my read on Fox is dogshit and he's scum.

But the number of suspicious people on that wagon..

Maybe im just seeing things. Maybe im onto something?

Can you explain why you townread Fox?

For my part, the abrasive tone itself isn't the issue, it just seems like he's using it as cover for not doing much of substance, and he's doing all the little scummy things (asking about mafia experience, loudly noting that he won't be around at EoD when he's on the block, vaguely shading everyone on his wagon rather than trying to use his perspective to read people).

Several of those things did happen after I voted, but when I voted I knew I was leaving and voted for the scummiest person with votes.

Asking about mafia experience of a player I've never met in the first 24 hours of game? I was curious who I was dealing with.

Noting I won't be around at EOD when I'm a viable wagon? Yeah, I wanted to discourage people from voting for me. That's not AI, since town wanting to stay alive is just as valid as scum wanting to stay alive. Also, why aren't you harping on Thamrick or the lurkers if you're so worried about participation.

And I'm shading people who are voting for me because their reasons for voting for me are weak and poorly thought out. If they're town, they should do better, and if they're scum, people should be aware.

[Vecna]

It is Night 2.

How many people do you think he's had the opportunity to scan at this point?

I'll give you a clue. Its a number between one and one.

thats a 100% failrate if he couldve gotten more answers from the GM than he couldve gotten from scanning himself.

The GM's answer would only have become useful on his death.

Maybe he wants to catch scum while he is alive. That's not a totally unreasonable aspiration.

Why do you want the deputy to die?

Dying is what cops do naturally Jamiet. Can you stop and just let me ask my questions without feeling this incessant need to interject?

[Vecna]

<snip>
So many scumlords were on the fox wagon with shit reasoning.

Since you and rdr say I'm not here or not contributing, what was shit about this reasoning?

Dont worry, ill probably do a full lookup on you later

[BobMcBob]

The people that voted Fox (some unvoted):

Brainbomb
Bunny
Ghug
Maniac
Rdrivera
Thamrick
Bona

Cross-reference that with your scumreads people. Realize they werent protecting a teammate (unless damo is scum).

I think this was scum trying to take out the alien. And theres at least 3 scum in that group.

this rabbithole is a steaming hot pile of garbage and please take your head out of it sooner rather than later
i would be very surprised if there are three mafia in that group you got there
my scumreads only contain roughly two of those people
i think a lot of people, including myself, got pinged by foxs tone and mood, which you (and fox) seem to be completely discounting here

This is very assertive, combative language, considering you're arguing about whether there are three scum in that group, or only two, Bob. You're suggesting Vecna might be 2/3 right, so why are you being so aggressive?

rationale and absolutes

the rationale is really bad, there were people voting for foxc (quite a few if i recall correctly) who were very much (as i said) doing it because of mood, tone, lack of content, strange reactions and so on

and also why would more than half the scumteam decide to just all hop on a wagon at once to get it killed

and he also said at least three scum
i doubt there are three, even two may be pushing it
the fact that his bad theory leads him to believe at least three of those people are scum is just really annoying

[Jamiet99uk]

thats a 100% failrate if he couldve gotten more answers from the GM than he couldve gotten from scanning himself.

The GM's answer would only have become useful on his death.

Maybe he wants to catch scum while he is alive. That's not a totally unreasonable aspiration.

Why do you want the deputy to die?

Dying is what cops do naturally Jamiet. Can you stop and just let me ask my questions without feeling this incessant need to interject?

What would you like me to talk about instead?

[Vecna]

The people that voted Fox (some unvoted):

Brainbomb
Bunny
Ghug
Maniac
Rdrivera
Thamrick
Bona

Cross-reference that with your scumreads people. Realize they werent protecting a teammate (unless damo is scum).

I think this was scum trying to take out the alien. And theres at least 3 scum in that group.

this rabbithole is a steaming hot pile of garbage and please take your head out of it sooner rather than later
i would be very surprised if there are three mafia in that group you got there
my scumreads only contain roughly two of those people
i think a lot of people, including myself, got pinged by foxs tone and mood, which you (and fox) seem to be completely discounting here

Good thing everyone has to take -your- reads into account whenever they are looking into something.

You werent even voting for Fox, so why do you care that im chasing this down?