Mafia 1016: America's Past-Crime [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

I don't exactly townread them, I just think that the mafia is way more likely to be 2 of vecna, kgray and Durga.

Why do you think this though? You seem to be dodging questions and intentionally avoiding sharing your thoughts.

I think the things that Darg and Rdrivera have said are more towny than the things you, vecna, and Durga have said.

I am not trying to be a jerk, but you do understand why this isn't actually answering the question, right?

[lfischl]

yeah. Its kinda hard to explain why I don't think they are mafia. Its mostly a gut feeling.

[kgray]

yeah. Its kinda hard to explain why I don't think they are mafia. Its mostly a gut feeling.

Okay. Well if you see any posts that contribute to your reads, please point them out. I think you are wrong about one of them, but it would be helpful for you to argue your case. I'm not going to be convinced by you just repeating that they're townier than me

[rdrivera2005]

Okay well I feel like Jamie and Vecna are legitimately trying to figure this out with me, so they're most likely town. Vecna not being 100% in sync with me is sort of comforting, and even though I feel like Jamie sometimes has convenient blinders on to certain facts, I think he does that as town and he's clearly putting in effort. None of what either of them are doing *couldn't* be done by scum, but it seems earnest to me.

I doubt lfischl is scum and I'm never killing celaph here. So I think today needs to be Durga, and then it will probably between Rivera and darg for me. I think it's more likely Rivera?

And I think it's you and not Durga.

##vote Kgray

[rdrivera2005]

To be honest I have townreads on everyone in the second group+celaph. I think it’s Durga+kgray or vecna.

Youre probably going to have to reevaluate here for a bit.

Why are you townreading Darg and Rdrivera?

I don't exactly townread them, I just think that the mafia is way more likely to be 2 of vecna, kgray and Durga.

This is why lfischl is town.

[Jamiet99uk]

Can't we mostly rule out celaph for getting Bozo? If we did that and Durga/kgray were town vecna is the vote here.

No, we can't. Bussing is a thing.

[kgray]

Okay well I feel like Jamie and Vecna are legitimately trying to figure this out with me, so they're most likely town. Vecna not being 100% in sync with me is sort of comforting, and even though I feel like Jamie sometimes has convenient blinders on to certain facts, I think he does that as town and he's clearly putting in effort. None of what either of them are doing *couldn't* be done by scum, but it seems earnest to me.

I doubt lfischl is scum and I'm never killing celaph here. So I think today needs to be Durga, and then it will probably between Rivera and darg for me. I think it's more likely Rivera?

And I think it's you and not Durga.

##vote Kgray

Yeah okay Rivera. Why?

[kgray]

Youre probably going to have to reevaluate here for a bit.

Why are you townreading Darg and Rdrivera?

I don't exactly townread them, I just think that the mafia is way more likely to be 2 of vecna, kgray and Durga.

This is why lfischl is town.

Because he townreads you? Ridiculous.

[rdrivera2005]

Okay well I feel like Jamie and Vecna are legitimately trying to figure this out with me, so they're most likely town. Vecna not being 100% in sync with me is sort of comforting, and even though I feel like Jamie sometimes has convenient blinders on to certain facts, I think he does that as town and he's clearly putting in effort. None of what either of them are doing *couldn't* be done by scum, but it seems earnest to me.

I doubt lfischl is scum and I'm never killing celaph here. So I think today needs to be Durga, and then it will probably between Rivera and darg for me. I think it's more likely Rivera?

And I think it's you and not Durga.

##vote Kgray

Yeah okay Rivera. Why?

Because I can't connect with your line of thought. Usually I can follow your logic and you also follow mine, so much I can nominate you as my spokesperson. This game I don't follow your logic. Your post about killing Durga and then me looks like the script for scum win the game. Well, probably not as if Durga isn't scum we will still go after the pool 1.
Your lack of second thoughts after Bona shenanigans your vote on Durgs without considering the Bozo votes on him, it's not what I expect from town Kgray.
Anyway, last time I didn't connect with your thoughts you were scum and I think it's the case again.

[rdrivera2005]

I don't exactly townread them, I just think that the mafia is way more likely to be 2 of vecna, kgray and Durga.

This is why lfischl is town.

Because he townreads you? Ridiculous.

No, because he can see things and isn't afraid of fighting the two most vocal players.
I am not in question today. If we hit scum today we can discuss about me tomorrow if I am still alive.

[kgray]

And I think it's you and not Durga.

##vote Kgray

Yeah okay Rivera. Why?

Because I can't connect with your line of thought. Usually I can follow your logic and you also follow mine, so much I can nominate you as my spokesperson. This game I don't follow your logic. Your post about killing Durga and then me looks like the script for scum win the game. Well, probably not as if Durga isn't scum we will still go after the pool 1.
Your lack of second thoughts after Bona shenanigans your vote on Durgs without considering the Bozo votes on him, it's not what I expect from town Kgray.
Anyway, last time I didn't connect with your thoughts you were scum and I think it's the case again.

I don't buy this at all. If you don't follow my line of thought then ask me about it. Nothing you're saying here is true.

I have never said you should be killed after Durga, I said you're my best bet for the last scum. That doesn't mean I would vote for you right now or that it's locked in. And the fact that you're making that argument about me setting up a winning strategy for scum while still admitting that it makes no sense as a scum plan (because if Durga is town then we're just going to kill between me/celaph/vecna) is shady af.

I DID consider bozo's votes on Durga. I said his D1 vote looks like something he's done when busing a partner before, and I proposed that he voted Durga D2 because he thought there was no point in trying to save her because she was already basically gone, and I even speculated that she would have told her teammates to just bus her.

You are making this up.

[kgray]

This is why lfischl is town.

Because he townreads you? Ridiculous.

No, because he can see things and isn't afraid of fighting the two most vocal players.
I am not in question today. If we hit scum today we can discuss about me tomorrow if I am still alive.

How do you even know what he's seeing when he can't explain it? It seems like you just know he's town and he's scumreading two townies, and that suits you just fine.

[kgray]

I believe this is the first time Rivera has incorrectly scumread me and I think it's very convenient that it's happening in a situation where I'm being scumread by multiple people at least partially based on my connections with someone who I think is very likely to flip scum. It's a win-win if he's scum with Durga. He either gets me miskilled today or I'm implicated by Durga's flip and I'm the next miskill.

[rdrivera2005]

Yeah okay Rivera. Why?

Because I can't connect with your line of thought. Usually I can follow your logic and you also follow mine, so much I can nominate you as my spokesperson. This game I don't follow your logic. Your post about killing Durga and then me looks like the script for scum win the game. Well, probably not as if Durga isn't scum we will still go after the pool 1.
Your lack of second thoughts after Bona shenanigans your vote on Durgs without considering the Bozo votes on him, it's not what I expect from town Kgray.
Anyway, last time I didn't connect with your thoughts you were scum and I think it's the case again.

I don't buy this at all. If you don't follow my line of thought then ask me about it. Nothing you're saying here is true.

I have never said you should be killed after Durga, I said you're my best bet for the last scum. That doesn't mean I would vote for you right now or that it's locked in. And the fact that you're making that argument about me setting up a winning strategy for scum while still admitting that it makes no sense as a scum plan (because if Durga is town then we're just going to kill between me/celaph/vecna) is shady af.

I DID consider bozo's votes on Durga. I said his D1 vote looks like something he's done when busing a partner before, and I proposed that he voted Durga D2 because he thought there was no point in trying to save her because she was already basically gone, and I even speculated that she would have told her teammates to just bus her.

You are making this up.

I asked you about your Durga vote and all things you said now you just said after the vote. In fact in your fist answer to me you said your vote was a reaction to Bona being town and not to Bozo being scum.
So, who are making things up?

[kgray]

Because I can't connect with your line of thought. Usually I can follow your logic and you also follow mine, so much I can nominate you as my spokesperson. This game I don't follow your logic. Your post about killing Durga and then me looks like the script for scum win the game. Well, probably not as if Durga isn't scum we will still go after the pool 1.
Your lack of second thoughts after Bona shenanigans your vote on Durgs without considering the Bozo votes on him, it's not what I expect from town Kgray.
Anyway, last time I didn't connect with your thoughts you were scum and I think it's the case again.

I don't buy this at all. If you don't follow my line of thought then ask me about it. Nothing you're saying here is true.

I have never said you should be killed after Durga, I said you're my best bet for the last scum. That doesn't mean I would vote for you right now or that it's locked in. And the fact that you're making that argument about me setting up a winning strategy for scum while still admitting that it makes no sense as a scum plan (because if Durga is town then we're just going to kill between me/celaph/vecna) is shady af.

I DID consider bozo's votes on Durga. I said his D1 vote looks like something he's done when busing a partner before, and I proposed that he voted Durga D2 because he thought there was no point in trying to save her because she was already basically gone, and I even speculated that she would have told her teammates to just bus her.

You are making this up.

I asked you about your Durga vote and all things you said now you just said after the vote. In fact in your fist answer to me you said your vote was a reaction to Bona being town and not to Bozo being scum.
So, who are making things up?

So what's your problem with what I'm saying, then? Why can't my reads be impacted by Bona flipping town *and* bozo flipping scum?

My instinct to vote Durga was mostly based on my townreads of Vecna and celaph but I made my thougths on the connections between Durga and bozo clear also. And I did consider bozo voting for her, I even talked to you about it!

So what are you saying I'm making up?

[rdrivera2005]

I believe this is the first time Rivera has incorrectly scumread me and I think it's very convenient that it's happening in a situation where I'm being scumread by multiple people at least partially based on my connections with someone who I think is very likely to flip scum. It's a win-win if he's scum with Durga. He either gets me miskilled today or I'm implicated by Durga's flip and I'm the next miskill.

I think this isn't the first time you read me wrong, but it's the first time I don't understand why you are attacking me. I am obviously town and you are just losing time attacking me if you are town too.

[kgray]

I believe this is the first time Rivera has incorrectly scumread me and I think it's very convenient that it's happening in a situation where I'm being scumread by multiple people at least partially based on my connections with someone who I think is very likely to flip scum. It's a win-win if he's scum with Durga. He either gets me miskilled today or I'm implicated by Durga's flip and I'm the next miskill.

I think this isn't the first time you read me wrong, but it's the first time I don't understand why you are attacking me. I am obviously town and you are just losing time attacking me if you are town too.

I'm not attacking you. Or at least, I wasn't until you baselessly decided to vote for me, ignoring previous things I've said. I have said that I townread everyone in the group of non-Jamie voters, but if I do a POE then I think you could be the last scum.

You are really overreacting if this is all because I "scumread" you. And you are not obviously town.

[rdrivera2005]

I don't buy this at all. If you don't follow my line of thought then ask me about it. Nothing you're saying here is true.

I have never said you should be killed after Durga, I said you're my best bet for the last scum. That doesn't mean I would vote for you right now or that it's locked in. And the fact that you're making that argument about me setting up a winning strategy for scum while still admitting that it makes no sense as a scum plan (because if Durga is town then we're just going to kill between me/celaph/vecna) is shady af.

I DID consider bozo's votes on Durga. I said his D1 vote looks like something he's done when busing a partner before, and I proposed that he voted Durga D2 because he thought there was no point in trying to save her because she was already basically gone, and I even speculated that she would have told her teammates to just bus her.

You are making this up.

I asked you about your Durga vote and all things you said now you just said after the vote. In fact in your fist answer to me you said your vote was a reaction to Bona being town and not to Bozo being scum.
So, who are making things up?

So what's your problem with what I'm saying, then? Why can't my reads be impacted by Bona flipping town *and* bozo flipping scum?

My instinct to vote Durga was mostly based on my townreads of Vecna and celaph but I made my thougths on the connections between Durga and bozo clear also. And I did consider bozo voting for her, I even talked to you about it!

So what are you saying I'm making up?

We are having problems communicating.
Let me try to explain again. You were townreading Bozo as far as I remember. Bozo flips scum. And for me it looked a lot more that you just tried to fit this into your reads then to make a reevaluation of your reads that it's what I expect from town Kgray.
Then you can make a lot of explanations to this, but that reaction is scummy to me, and I am not making it up. I could be wrong obviously, but you dismissing it as something only scum can do makes this feeling even stronger.

[rdrivera2005]

I believe this is the first time Rivera has incorrectly scumread me and I think it's very convenient that it's happening in a situation where I'm being scumread by multiple people at least partially based on my connections with someone who I think is very likely to flip scum. It's a win-win if he's scum with Durga. He either gets me miskilled today or I'm implicated by Durga's flip and I'm the next miskill.

I think this isn't the first time you read me wrong, but it's the first time I don't understand why you are attacking me. I am obviously town and you are just losing time attacking me if you are town too.

I'm not attacking you. Or at least, I wasn't until you baselessly decided to vote for me, ignoring previous things I've said. I have said that I townread everyone in the group of non-Jamie voters, but if I do a POE then I think you could be the last scum.

You are really overreacting if this is all because I "scumread" you. And you are not obviously town.

Like I said, your read on me is not relevant. I am really sorry to have included it on this discussion.

[kgray]

I asked you about your Durga vote and all things you said now you just said after the vote. In fact in your fist answer to me you said your vote was a reaction to Bona being town and not to Bozo being scum.
So, who are making things up?

So what's your problem with what I'm saying, then? Why can't my reads be impacted by Bona flipping town *and* bozo flipping scum?

My instinct to vote Durga was mostly based on my townreads of Vecna and celaph but I made my thougths on the connections between Durga and bozo clear also. And I did consider bozo voting for her, I even talked to you about it!

So what are you saying I'm making up?

We are having problems communicating.
Let me try to explain again. You were townreading Bozo as far as I remember. Bozo flips scum. And for me it looked a lot more that you just tried to fit this into your reads then to make a reevaluation of your reads that it's what I expect from town Kgray.
Then you can make a lot of explanations to this, but that reaction is scummy to me, and I am not making it up. I could be wrong obviously, but you dismissing it as something only scum can do makes this feeling even stronger.

I have never townread bozo in this game. I was thrown off by him defending me, but even from his first post I thought something was off, and said so here and here. You can scumread me for saving him D1, even though I have a well-established history of opposing his D1 kill, but not for townreading him. I said here that I don't townread him, stated some suspicions I had here, and pointed out that I didn't think he was being his normal town self here.

I wasn't calling for his head, but I never townread him. Even when I wanted him to survive D1.

I already thought a bozo/Durga scumteam made sense, as I said in this post.

Once bona flipped town, I *also* knew that at least one of Vecna/celaph/Durga is scum. Celaph is my strongest townread, and Vecna is my second. This makes my vote for Durga very easy.

I think I have explained my thought processes as the game progressed, so I'm not just making up explanations now. You can go back and see what I was thinking as I thought it. I'm not just justifying things now, after the fact.