Mafia 1016: America's Past-Crime [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

The alternative for Bozo to park his vote D1 wouldve been on you Jamiet, since durga and you were the only existing wagons.

Maybe he had to bus because only bad options existed, and he had to leave his vote somewhere before taking off.

If Jamie is town, why didn't bozo just flip his statement and say he agrees with the reasons to scumread Jamie more than scumread Durga? Were my reasons for scumreading Jamie really that bad to where he couldn't get away with that?

[kgray]

On day2 the durga wagon was also up to 4 votes when he placed his. The only other vote placed at that time was a single vote on Bona.

I think youre putting way too much weight on Bozo never bussing, while there were not very many options for him whatsoever.

I think Rivera is arguing the hardest that bozo doesn't bus.

[Vecna]

The alternative for Bozo to park his vote D1 wouldve been on you Jamiet, since durga and you were the only existing wagons.

Maybe he had to bus because only bad options existed, and he had to leave his vote somewhere before taking off.

If Jamie is town, why didn't bozo just flip his statement and say he agrees with the reasons to scumread Jamie more than scumread Durga? Were my reasons for scumreading Jamie really that bad to where he couldn't get away with that?

Im just trying to convince people to see it my way. I really dont care much about the whole outguess the dead scum game.

[Vecna]

Also, if people actually went through Bozos scumgames, I bet theyd find plenty examples of him bussing.

Ive been scum with him before where he did, im pretty sure.

[kgray]

Hm, then it's entirely possible Bozo stayed parked on Durga simply because he wasn't around.

However, would scum Bozo really park his vote on his scum team-mate Durga on D2, when she was only just saved from the Daykill on D1, if he knew he wouldn't be around? Wouldn't that be a hugely risky place to leave his vote parked?

Not if he thought she was a lost cause because she was already under so much pressure. And this is probably irrelevant, but I could totally see Durga just telling her team to bus her in scum chat. She doesn't like being scum and she's clearly not enjoying this game, so I think she'd rather her teammates stay hidden than keep her alive.

The only thing giving me pause is that im convinced there was only 1 scum on her wagon at EoD2. Assuming this is true, it would have to be Jamiet or Darg, since those are the ones on Durga that later switched to Bona.

Its a sligh townpoint for Rdrivera, since I indeed wonder if he'd pass up the opportunity to bus Durga, while Bozo is just chilling there for 2 days straight.

Yeah... He could have switched for credit, based on his comment about wondering if Bona was actually town, but wouldn't he rather save her (or at least let Bona die)? With bona dying and about to flip town, scum know that we'll still vote in the Jamie voters today, which gives more cover for the scum who aren't in that group (bozo and, I assume, the third scum besides Durga).

[dargorygel]

This hone in on one detail by Jamie confirms towniness.

My paranoia is retreating, regarding vecna and kgray.

[kgray]

And (assuming Durga is scum) why would I prop up Bozo to be the counter-wagon to Durga in the first place?

My vote was absolutely critical in letting that get momentum and I stayed on it for a long time letting it build.

This really does not show very critical thinking, and just smells like youre trying to find reasons to go along with a scumread

Oh yeah, and I remember feeling like you were reluctant to leave bozo and vote damo with me. I guess that could be you not wanting to be too eager to leave your teammate's wagon to start one on a twonie, but I don't think so.

Also, the only reason I did actually sheep you was because of how spot-on you and EMC have been in reading Damo in recent memory (Emc probably more so).

I'm really bummed that I was wrong about him, my metric had been working so well up to this game

[Jamiet99uk]

I couldve phrased my point better.

You couldve tried a lot harder in understanding the point I was trying to make, and not be so dramatic about minor details.

Could you explain your point again please?

As I understand it, your point was that I was discounting the possibility of Bozo bussing Durga.

That's not true at all.

So, try explaining better?

[kgray]

The alternative for Bozo to park his vote D1 wouldve been on you Jamiet, since durga and you were the only existing wagons.

Maybe he had to bus because only bad options existed, and he had to leave his vote somewhere before taking off.

If Jamie is town, why didn't bozo just flip his statement and say he agrees with the reasons to scumread Jamie more than scumread Durga? Were my reasons for scumreading Jamie really that bad to where he couldn't get away with that?

Im just trying to convince people to see it my way. I really dont care much about the whole outguess the dead scum game.

I don't understand this. Are you saying his "bad" options were both his teammates? What way are you seeing it here?

[Vecna]

Also, if people actually went through Bozos scumgames, I bet theyd find plenty examples of him bussing.

Ive been scum with him before where he did, im pretty sure.

Hmm ok, he actually didnt bus in that game.

[kgray]

Hope a bunch of you are playing in the British tour dipgames this weekend btw

I signed up for this, btw. Go easy on me if we play together

[Vecna]

I couldve phrased my point better.

You couldve tried a lot harder in understanding the point I was trying to make, and not be so dramatic about minor details.

Could you explain your point again please?

As I understand it, your point was that I was discounting the possibility of Bozo bussing Durga.

That's not true at all.

So, try explaining better?

My point was that i did not agree with you choosing to vote Kgray, which I ultimately interpret as you finding the scenario where he did not bus Durga as the most likely outcome.

[Jamiet99uk]

I couldve phrased my point better.

You couldve tried a lot harder in understanding the point I was trying to make, and not be so dramatic about minor details.

Could you explain your point again please?

As I understand it, your point was that I was discounting the possibility of Bozo bussing Durga.

That's not true at all.

So, try explaining better?

My point was that i did not agree with you choosing to vote Kgray, which I ultimately interpret as you finding the scenario where he did not bus Durga as the most likely outcome.

Well you could have said that.

There are two scenarios in which Kgray is scum. In one of them, Bozo did bus Durga, and in the other one, he did not.

[kgray]

@Jamie can you respond to this, please?

So:

Possibility 1: Scum Bozo was willing to bus Scum Durga on two days running and abandon her to her fate at EoD on both occasions, while buddying Town Kgray.

Possibility 2: Durga is town and Bozo latched onto easy reasons to plonk his vote on her and leave it there for a nice miskill. Bozo worked hard to defend his scum team-mate, Kgray.

Possibility 3: Durga and Kgray are both scum. Bozo distanced from one whilst defending the other.

Possiblity 4 would be that Durga and Kgray are both town. However I cannot reconcile Bozo's behaviour with that scenario and I would suggest that it can be ruled out.

Thoughts?

I'm fairly convinced the solution is behind door number 1, although that's certainly not compelling to you.

I can see why you'd think it's possibility number 2, and I suppose that answers my question of "why would scum!bozo defend me?"

There should honestly be zero chance in your mind that it's number 3.

How does bozo's behavior rule out #4? Couldn't he have just been completely avoiding his real teammates?

[Vecna]

If Jamie is town, why didn't bozo just flip his statement and say he agrees with the reasons to scumread Jamie more than scumread Durga? Were my reasons for scumreading Jamie really that bad to where he couldn't get away with that?

Im just trying to convince people to see it my way. I really dont care much about the whole outguess the dead scum game.

I don't understand this. Are you saying his "bad" options were both his teammates? What way are you seeing it here?

I was sort of implying that to jamiet to see if he'd respond, ye. not a very relevant post

[kgray]

Im just trying to convince people to see it my way. I really dont care much about the whole outguess the dead scum game.

I don't understand this. Are you saying his "bad" options were both his teammates? What way are you seeing it here?

I was sort of implying that to jamiet to see if he'd respond, ye. not a very relevant post

Okay, well my question still stands though. Were my (or anyone's) reasons to scumread Jamie so bad that scum couldn't justify a vote for town!Jamie over scum!Durga?

[Jamiet99uk]

Hi Kgray,

I assume this is the part you want a response on:

How does bozo's behavior rule out #4? Couldn't he have just been completely avoiding his real teammates?

[/quote]

That would imply that his team-mates are in a pool of:

Vecna
Celaph
Ifischl
Rdrivera
Dargorygel

He didn't completely avoid Vecna, I don't think. Celaph of course started a wagon on Bozo and declared him a top scumred, but the problem is, that was after Bozo's very last post, so we can't say he was avoiding that, because possibly he was genuinely not around.

We do know that there's a maximum of 1 scum in Ifischl, Rdrivera, and Dargorygel, and possibly none.

Let me modify my comment to say that scenario 4 is not impossible. It's just the least likely, in my opinion.

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't understand this. Are you saying his "bad" options were both his teammates? What way are you seeing it here?

I was sort of implying that to jamiet to see if he'd respond, ye. not a very relevant post

Okay, well my question still stands though. Were my (or anyone's) reasons to scumread Jamie so bad that scum couldn't justify a vote for town!Jamie over scum!Durga?

Maybe he didn't want to push me into becoming an obvious whirlwind of towny indignance, I don't know.

[Vecna]

I dno, Bozo especially seems to be quite averse to getting mixed up in arguments with people and having to protect his reasons for scumreads. His last 2 games he just seemed to find a few reasons that sound plausible and run with those.

Maybe in his mind its fine to copy others reasoning if the person is about to flip as his teammate, but he feels he needs justified reasoning to vote for a controversial target?

He put in quite a lot of effort into framing me in that game where you got me killed.

Anyways, im pretty bored with this discussion. Basing your votes and reads solely on things you think scum x would or would not do is not how I want to play my game.

[Vecna]

I was sort of implying that to jamiet to see if he'd respond, ye. not a very relevant post

Okay, well my question still stands though. Were my (or anyone's) reasons to scumread Jamie so bad that scum couldn't justify a vote for town!Jamie over scum!Durga?

Maybe he didn't want to push me into becoming an obvious whirlwind of towny indignance, I don't know.

This is actually quite plausible, and probably a much better way of phrasing my point lol