Mafia 1016: America's Past-Crime [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

The alternative for Bozo to park his vote D1 wouldve been on you Jamiet, since durga and you were the only existing wagons.

Maybe he had to bus because only bad options existed, and he had to leave his vote somewhere before taking off.

One minute before Bozo's vote on Page 24 of D1, the wagons were:

Jamie (3)
Durga (2)
Damo (1)
Bozo (1)

In the same minute that Bozo voted and left, Ifischl also voted Durga. It's possible they cross-posted, their votes are so close together. These votes combined took Durga from 2 to 4 and put her in the lead.

He's not going to vote himself but he could have voted for Damo. He would go on to spend D2 defending Kgray's Damo wagon and agreeing that she had reasonable cause for voting Damo.

[Jamiet99uk]

On day2 the durga wagon was also up to 4 votes when he placed his. The only other vote placed at that time was a single vote on Bona.

I think youre putting way too much weight on Bozo never bussing, while there were not very many options for him whatsoever.

When did I say that Bozo never busses?

I have never said any such thing.

[Jamiet99uk]

So:

Possibility 1: Scum Bozo was willing to bus Scum Durga on two days running and abandon her to her fate at EoD on both occasions, while buddying Town Kgray.

Possibility 2: Durga is town and Bozo latched onto easy reasons to plonk his vote on her and leave it there for a nice miskill. Bozo worked hard to defend his scum team-mate, Kgray.

Possibility 3: Durga and Kgray are both scum. Bozo distanced from one whilst defending the other.

Possiblity 4 would be that Durga and Kgray are both town. However I cannot reconcile Bozo's behaviour with that scenario and I would suggest that it can be ruled out.

Thoughts?

Here is me outlining very clearly that two of the three plausible scenarios involve Bozo bussing Durga.

So I don't know why Vecna is accusing me of having said that Bozo never busses. That's a total misrepresentation.

[kgray]

##vote bona

I really dont get your urge to move your vote though

I'd already decided I wasn't voting celaph. I picked Bona because I started to question my townread of him, and I didn't want Durga to be a runaway wagon.

[kgray]

@Celaph: You were right about Bozo. Kudos. If you're town, one of Durga/Kgray/Vecna must be scum. Which do you think it is?

@Kgray: Is Durga still a scumread for you?

@Durga: If you are town, which of Celaph, Kgray, or Vecna do you now think is scum?

@Vecna: If you are town, which of Celaph, Kgray, or Durga do you now think is scum?

Im pretty convinced both Kgray and Celaph are town. Still have minor doubts about his super-happy tone which is reminiscent of his game as alien, but his recent long wall-posts were at least a lot closer to his very first towngame.

I think you should sheep my townread of celaph.

[kgray]

I think Bozo is scum by the way. And maybe Vecna.

Do you still think this after the Bozo flip?

I thought I might be the scum kill. Nobody was scumreading me and I am on group B.

I was right about Bozo. I explained to Kgray why I am suspicious of you. In fact, right now I I am also suspicious of Kgray. His quick Durga vote without considering how Bozo flip could change things isn't something I expect from her.

Jamiet is back on my radar too, like you pointed, but this isn't for today. For me today is between you, Durga and Kgray.

My quick vote for Durga was mostly reacting to Bona's flip, not bozo's. I know there's scum in celaph/Vecna/Durga, and celaph and Vecna are my two strongest townreads, so this is an easy choice.

Also, I'd already thought there were suspicious connections between Durga and bozo. They came from assuming Durga would flip scum before bozo, but the other way around works too.

[Vecna]

So:

Possibility 1: Scum Bozo was willing to bus Scum Durga on two days running and abandon her to her fate at EoD on both occasions, while buddying Town Kgray.

Possibility 2: Durga is town and Bozo latched onto easy reasons to plonk his vote on her and leave it there for a nice miskill. Bozo worked hard to defend his scum team-mate, Kgray.

Possibility 3: Durga and Kgray are both scum. Bozo distanced from one whilst defending the other.

Possiblity 4 would be that Durga and Kgray are both town. However I cannot reconcile Bozo's behaviour with that scenario and I would suggest that it can be ruled out.

Thoughts?

Here is me outlining very clearly that two of the three plausible scenarios involve Bozo bussing Durga.

So I don't know why Vecna is accusing me of having said that Bozo never busses. That's a total misrepresentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlRomp ... eTelegraph

[kgray]

Why Vecna?

Because the way he jumped from Bozo to Damo on D1.

We have just one miskill left, we need to get it right today.

And (assuming Durga is scum) why would I prop up Bozo to be the counter-wagon to Durga in the first place?

My vote was absolutely critical in letting that get momentum and I stayed on it for a long time letting it build.

This really does not show very critical thinking, and just smells like youre trying to find reasons to go along with a scumread

Oh yeah, and I remember feeling like you were reluctant to leave bozo and vote damo with me. I guess that could be you not wanting to be too eager to leave your teammate's wagon to start one on a twonie, but I don't think so.

[BunnyGo]

Official General Manager Vote count:

With just over 11 hours in the day the votes stand:

Durga (4) kgray lfischl Vecna dargorygel
kgray (2) Durga Jamiet99uk

Celaph and rdrivera still need to make valid votes.

Durga is set to be charged with a baseball bat.

[kgray]

Does the record appear to show that Bozo was online at EoD either day?
(I haven't checked yet).

just checked, there does not appear to be any votes or msg's from bozo in the last few hours on either day

Hm, then it's entirely possible Bozo stayed parked on Durga simply because he wasn't around.

However, would scum Bozo really park his vote on his scum team-mate Durga on D2, when she was only just saved from the Daykill on D1, if he knew he wouldn't be around? Wouldn't that be a hugely risky place to leave his vote parked?

Not if he thought she was a lost cause because she was already under so much pressure. And this is probably irrelevant, but I could totally see Durga just telling her team to bus her in scum chat. She doesn't like being scum and she's clearly not enjoying this game, so I think she'd rather her teammates stay hidden than keep her alive.

[kgray]

I have had one real experience of being buddied. I am not the kind of player that usually gets that kind of attention. I am also not the kind of player that remembers every electron of activity of past games, and the script of past episodes of “The Mafia Show.”

But kgray buddied me once, unless I am misremembering. It was the game that was memorable to me because vecna actually townread me.

Kgray and vecna are both townreading me, Vecna even telling me such… and kgray defending me lightly.

It might seem backwards arrogant. But I am suspicious this morning about the two of them.

Do you think that I'd buddy you again as scum after our post-game conversation after M61? But regardless, what I'm doing here is nothing like how hard I was "townreading" you that game. So I'm not really sure what you think I'm doing or why I'd do it as scum.

[Vecna]

just checked, there does not appear to be any votes or msg's from bozo in the last few hours on either day

Hm, then it's entirely possible Bozo stayed parked on Durga simply because he wasn't around.

However, would scum Bozo really park his vote on his scum team-mate Durga on D2, when she was only just saved from the Daykill on D1, if he knew he wouldn't be around? Wouldn't that be a hugely risky place to leave his vote parked?

Not if he thought she was a lost cause because she was already under so much pressure. And this is probably irrelevant, but I could totally see Durga just telling her team to bus her in scum chat. She doesn't like being scum and she's clearly not enjoying this game, so I think she'd rather her teammates stay hidden than keep her alive.

The only thing giving me pause is that im convinced there was only 1 scum on her wagon at EoD2. Assuming this is true, it would have to be Jamiet or Darg, since those are the ones on Durga that later switched to Bona.

Its a sligh townpoint for Rdrivera, since I indeed wonder if he'd pass up the opportunity to bus Durga, while Bozo is just chilling there for 2 days straight.

[Vecna]

Because the way he jumped from Bozo to Damo on D1.

We have just one miskill left, we need to get it right today.

And (assuming Durga is scum) why would I prop up Bozo to be the counter-wagon to Durga in the first place?

My vote was absolutely critical in letting that get momentum and I stayed on it for a long time letting it build.

This really does not show very critical thinking, and just smells like youre trying to find reasons to go along with a scumread

Oh yeah, and I remember feeling like you were reluctant to leave bozo and vote damo with me. I guess that could be you not wanting to be too eager to leave your teammate's wagon to start one on a twonie, but I don't think so.

Also, the only reason I did actually sheep you was because of how spot-on you and EMC have been in reading Damo in recent memory (Emc probably more so).

[Jamiet99uk]

Not if he thought she was a lost cause because she was already under so much pressure. And this is probably irrelevant, but I could totally see Durga just telling her team to bus her in scum chat. She doesn't like being scum and she's clearly not enjoying this game, so I think she'd rather her teammates stay hidden than keep her alive.

The only thing giving me pause is that im convinced there was only 1 scum on her wagon at EoD2. Assuming this is true, it would have to be Jamiet or Darg, since those are the ones on Durga that later switched to Bona.

Its a sligh townpoint for Rdrivera, since I indeed wonder if he'd pass up the opportunity to bus Durga, while Bozo is just chilling there for 2 days straight.

Why?

[Jamiet99uk]

Here is me outlining very clearly that two of the three plausible scenarios involve Bozo bussing Durga.

So I don't know why Vecna is accusing me of having said that Bozo never busses. That's a total misrepresentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlRomp ... eTelegraph
[/quote]

I like Greta.

But just so we're clear, you agree you were mistaken about this?

[kgray]

As for Kgray, the only reason people are suspicious of her is the voting record. Bloody dumb reasoning. All her play is exactly in-line with how she plays as town. She doesnt listen to anybody, draws her own conclusions on everything, and gets genuinely frustrated with all the right things and fights people over them. Even her suspicion of me has a natural progression over time that I dont think anyone can fake.

Hey, I do listen to people!

[Vecna]

Not if he thought she was a lost cause because she was already under so much pressure. And this is probably irrelevant, but I could totally see Durga just telling her team to bus her in scum chat. She doesn't like being scum and she's clearly not enjoying this game, so I think she'd rather her teammates stay hidden than keep her alive.

The only thing giving me pause is that im convinced there was only 1 scum on her wagon at EoD2. Assuming this is true, it would have to be Jamiet or Darg, since those are the ones on Durga that later switched to Bona.

Its a sligh townpoint for Rdrivera, since I indeed wonder if he'd pass up the opportunity to bus Durga, while Bozo is just chilling there for 2 days straight.

Why?

Because with flips theres 3 town + Ifischl on that wagon, and after Kgray he's my strongest townread currently

[Vecna]

Here is me outlining very clearly that two of the three plausible scenarios involve Bozo bussing Durga.

So I don't know why Vecna is accusing me of having said that Bozo never busses. That's a total misrepresentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlRomp ... eTelegraph

I like Greta.

But just so we're clear, you agree you were mistaken about this?
[/quote]

I couldve phrased my point better.

You couldve tried a lot harder in understanding the point I was trying to make, and not be so dramatic about minor details.

[Vecna]

As for Kgray, the only reason people are suspicious of her is the voting record. Bloody dumb reasoning. All her play is exactly in-line with how she plays as town. She doesnt listen to anybody, draws her own conclusions on everything, and gets genuinely frustrated with all the right things and fights people over them. Even her suspicion of me has a natural progression over time that I dont think anyone can fake.

Hey, I do listen to people!

well.....

[kgray]

So:

Possibility 1: Scum Bozo was willing to bus Scum Durga on two days running and abandon her to her fate at EoD on both occasions, while buddying Town Kgray.

Possibility 2: Durga is town and Bozo latched onto easy reasons to plonk his vote on her and leave it there for a nice miskill. Bozo worked hard to defend his scum team-mate, Kgray.

Possibility 3: Durga and Kgray are both scum. Bozo distanced from one whilst defending the other.

Possiblity 4 would be that Durga and Kgray are both town. However I cannot reconcile Bozo's behaviour with that scenario and I would suggest that it can be ruled out.

Thoughts?

I'm fairly convinced the solution is behind door number 1, although that's certainly not compelling to you.

I can see why you'd think it's possibility number 2, and I suppose that answers my question of "why would scum!bozo defend me?"

There should honestly be zero chance in your mind that it's number 3.

How does bozo's behavior rule out #4? Couldn't he have just been completely avoiding his real teammates?