Mafia 1016: America's Past-Crime [HIDDEN]

[Vecna]

Wish I could properly remember the point I wanted to make to you yesterday Kgray regarding Celaph. It sounded really good in my head too.

Too bad I was distracted by Jamiet

[dargorygel]

CASE ON KGRAY - A SUMMARY:

Kgray voted Damo out of nowhere, with no case, no explanation, nothing.

When Dargorygel asked Kgray about Damo's plan for the Question Asker, Kgray said this was NAI.

When asked why she was voting for Damo, Kgray said she didn't have a good explanation.

When pressed further, Kgray said Damo "seemed to be lying low", and this was the best reason she could offer.

Later, Kgray said to Durga that Damo was scummy for voting her.

As EoD approached, Kgray gave the Damo wagon another push by indicating she didn't want to vote for Bozo (but gave no other reason for Damo to be scum).

Kgray then repeated the fact that she didn't like Damo's vote for Durga.

During EoD Kgray repeatedly advocated for Damo votes. She practically begged Brainbomb to vote for him. And yet, all this time, she presented no strong reason for a Damo scumread, and Kgray didn't ask Damo a single meaningful question.

All of this is totally out of character for the sharp, questioning, inquisitive Town Kgray I've seen before.

SCUM

Why are you not questioning other people's naked votes?

How were you not concerned about damo's vote of Durga and the fact that he left it here all day without explaining that he actually scumread her? This is really similar to what scum!damo did with xorxes in M1011 and it was a perfectly valid reason to scumread him.

Damo laying low is normally scum!damo.

I did ask damo questions.

I wanted brain to vote damo because I didn't want Durga to die.

So obviously I was wrong about damo and I'm not at all convinced Durga is town, but you are blowing this way out of proportion.

kgray... you did not ask damo 'questions' with the same pointedness that I expect from you... can you understand that? It makes it look like you were casting around for a townie to miss-kill.

[Vecna]

Why is chaqa browsing this forum on a new account

[dargorygel]

I know I have the unique perspective of knowing this was town v town so I'm inclined to think that scum probably didn't care which one of me or damo died. I'm willing to bet there was scum on my wagon and it makes me feel that kgray is town for trying to get damo killed instead because why bother otherwise

I get this... but the reason scum (kgray in particular, for this discussion) would bother is provided IF you were scum. Your argument makes sense to you because you claim town. For those who doubt that claim, this is not an answer. It is like saying, "if I were town, I would be town."

[dargorygel]

bozo defending me is such a weird, unfamiliar experience. But I don't see any reason for him to do that as scum. Buddying me seems kind of pointless here when he's not in the group of eligible voters, so it would make more sense for him to just push my miskill rather than try to keep me around to save him later when he'd potentially be up for the kill.

hmmm

[Durga]

I know I have the unique perspective of knowing this was town v town so I'm inclined to think that scum probably didn't care which one of me or damo died. I'm willing to bet there was scum on my wagon and it makes me feel that kgray is town for trying to get damo killed instead because why bother otherwise

I get this... but the reason scum (kgray in particular, for this discussion) would bother is provided IF you were scum. Your argument makes sense to you because you claim town. For those who doubt that claim, this is not an answer. It is like saying, "if I were town, I would be town."

Yeah no obviously it's not important to anyone but me and anyone town reading me, just my rationale as to why I'm leaning town on kgray, but now she's saying she would have gone for damo over me as scum too so it's a pretty moot point regardless.

[kgray]

kgray... you did not ask damo 'questions' with the same pointedness that I expect from you... can you understand that? It makes it look like you were casting around for a townie to miss-kill.

I asked damo to explain his reads, and he didn't do that. He wasn't around to answer questions until right near the EOD anyway, and at that point his joke vote on Durga had already gotten ridiculous.

If I were casting around for a townie to miskill, why would I start the damo wagon from nothing? Why not just keep pushing Jamie, bozo, or Durga? They can't all be my teammates.

[dargorygel]

kgray and durga are looking a wee bit better.
My list is changing.

If kgray and durga can wait... bona is now next for me. Mostly due to the vecna/bona exchange. Which is interesting because vecna is ALSO on the list, eh? Might the bona/vecna thing be s v s?

Here is my present list
durga>kgray>bona>cel>vecna

So I should do this
##VOTE DURGA

[dargorygel]

(and regarding the bot... Peter will be digging into it soon. Be sure to +1 any announcements he makes in the next couple of hours)

[kgray]

I know I have the unique perspective of knowing this was town v town so I'm inclined to think that scum probably didn't care which one of me or damo died. I'm willing to bet there was scum on my wagon and it makes me feel that kgray is town for trying to get damo killed instead because why bother otherwise

I get this... but the reason scum (kgray in particular, for this discussion) would bother is provided IF you were scum. Your argument makes sense to you because you claim town. For those who doubt that claim, this is not an answer. It is like saying, "if I were town, I would be town."

Yeah no obviously it's not important to anyone but me and anyone town reading me, just my rationale as to why I'm leaning town on kgray, but now she's saying she would have gone for damo over me as scum too so it's a pretty moot point regardless.

I feel like you're deliberately misinterpreting what I said though? I agreed that I wouldn't go after him that hard as scum... I'm just not going to pretend like I wouldn't have that preference as scum, because I still would.

[dargorygel]

kgray... you did not ask damo 'questions' with the same pointedness that I expect from you... can you understand that? It makes it look like you were casting around for a townie to miss-kill.

I asked damo to explain his reads, and he didn't do that. He wasn't around to answer questions until right near the EOD anyway, and at that point his joke vote on Durga had already gotten ridiculous.

If I were casting around for a townie to miskill, why would I start the damo wagon from nothing? Why not just keep pushing Jamie, bozo, or Durga? They can't all be my teammates.

You would have a big list of potential misskills, yes? Why NOT cast around for as many as you could? If this is what you are doing, casting around offers you the chance to travel down many potential paths. Maybe looking for PR hints? And Durga is under sus as one of your teamates... I sus bozo of being scum, too ... and Jamie... yeah... I do not know why you didn't keep pushing him.

[Vecna]

kgray and durga are looking a wee bit better.
My list is changing.

If kgray and durga can wait... bona is now next for me. Mostly due to the vecna/bona exchange. Which is interesting because vecna is ALSO on the list, eh? Might the bona/vecna thing be s v s?

Here is my present list
durga>kgray>bona>cel>vecna

So I should do this
##VOTE DURGA

Why is Celaph so low on your list?

[Maniac]

Maniac’s blog April 3rd 2003

Snip



Was he expecting the mafia to say ‘yeah we notice he coded he was on to us therefore we killed him’?

It looks like dargorygel saw a crumb and helped kill BB the King and his ego is really saying ‘did anyone ELSE see a crumb, aren’t I clever’.

If we voted outside the list dargorygel would get my vote.

(reformatted)
My purpose in asking the question is that if there ARE NOT crumbs (which I could not find, even with brain's propensity to crumb) then perhaps scum killed him for his reads.

[dargorygel]

kgray and durga are looking a wee bit better.
My list is changing.

If kgray and durga can wait... bona is now next for me. Mostly due to the vecna/bona exchange. Which is interesting because vecna is ALSO on the list, eh? Might the bona/vecna thing be s v s?

Here is my present list
durga>kgray>bona>cel>vecna

So I should do this
##VOTE DURGA

Why is Celaph so low on your list?

Because I have not thought about him much.

[Maniac]

(reformatted)
My purpose in asking the question is that if there ARE NOT crumbs (which I could not find, even with brain's propensity to crumb) then perhaps scum killed him for his reads.

Dargorygel - can you point me to any mafia chat in all the games that have been played where anyone even suggested killing a townie for their reads?

[Vecna]

kgray and durga are looking a wee bit better.
My list is changing.

If kgray and durga can wait... bona is now next for me. Mostly due to the vecna/bona exchange. Which is interesting because vecna is ALSO on the list, eh? Might the bona/vecna thing be s v s?

Here is my present list
durga>kgray>bona>cel>vecna

So I should do this
##VOTE DURGA

In fact, I dont understand any of this post. Kgray and Durga are improving, but are still the most scummy? They can wait, but durga is still the vote? youre thinking me and bona might be SvS, but somehow Celaph is still right in between us in the ordering?

Im really confused by these thoughts and how they mismatch with your order

[dargorygel]

(reformatted)
My purpose in asking the question is that if there ARE NOT crumbs (which I could not find, even with brain's propensity to crumb) then perhaps scum killed him for his reads.

Dargorygel - can you point me to any mafia chat in all the games that have been played where anyone even suggested killing a townie for their reads?

That is a good point. It IS what I always expect. And the evidence for this hypothesis is lacking. Although MANY mafia chats are not accurate presentations of what all the mafia folk are thinking. Often they are only tips of the iceberg, imo.

I did not pursue this "reason for brain's NK" though... it is pretty useless. I was briefly hoping we might find some data.

[kgray]

kgray... you did not ask damo 'questions' with the same pointedness that I expect from you... can you understand that? It makes it look like you were casting around for a townie to miss-kill.

I asked damo to explain his reads, and he didn't do that. He wasn't around to answer questions until right near the EOD anyway, and at that point his joke vote on Durga had already gotten ridiculous.

If I were casting around for a townie to miskill, why would I start the damo wagon from nothing? Why not just keep pushing Jamie, bozo, or Durga? They can't all be my teammates.

You would have a big list of potential misskills, yes? Why NOT cast around for as many as you could? If this is what you are doing, casting around offers you the chance to travel down many potential paths. Maybe looking for PR hints? And Durga is under sus as one of your teamates... I sus bozo of being scum, too ... and Jamie... yeah... I do not know why you didn't keep pushing him.

When you played with me and I was scum, did I ever lead a charge on getting a townie miskilled like I just did with damo?

[dargorygel]

kgray and durga are looking a wee bit better.
My list is changing.

If kgray and durga can wait... bona is now next for me. Mostly due to the vecna/bona exchange. Which is interesting because vecna is ALSO on the list, eh? Might the bona/vecna thing be s v s?

Here is my present list
durga>kgray>bona>cel>vecna

So I should do this
##VOTE DURGA

In fact, I dont understand any of this post. Kgray and Durga are improving, but are still the most scummy? They can wait, but durga is still the vote? youre thinking me and bona might be SvS, but somehow Celaph is still right in between us in the ordering?

Im really confused by these thoughts and how they mismatch with your order

Kgray and Durga look better to me... not yet better enough to move them down, although the order of them has solidified. "They can wait" meant that in my thoughts, I can get back to them later. So I was trying to clarify the rest of my list. I mention the potential of you and bona being S v S, not because that was a WOW NOW I AM CONVINCED thing... but that it might be a thing. You have seemed more townie overnight so I moved you to the bottom of the list.

[Jamiet99uk]

Does anyone have a fucking reason as to why they're voting me or naw

Firstly, you are in a group of 5 people containing 1-3 scum.
The other group of 6 people contains 0-2 scum.
So it makes good sense to target in the first group.

Secondly, it looks very much like you were saved D1.

Okay so literally nothing on my end nice love it

Correct, you have done fuck all, beyond having a shit attitude and having no apparent motivation to help town. That's right.

Reasons to townread you: 0.