MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

Can you do these tonal reads on some other people? Maybe emc and Bunny?

This game's d2 was sufficiently different enough that I'm only going to reading their ISO on d1 for each of these games.

Emc's most recent town game (last one) was a lot more active and a lot more willing to post reads and metrics to find people (

,

), even if he wasn't reading most of the thread. In emc's most recent scum game, M53 (as far as I can tell. Some games didn't have god thread posted, or I was too lazy to find it), he was much more jokey and such (like half his posts were about how he was in hot water for drawing jmo in a bikini:

). He correctly called Bunny's whole "name in the PM" junk as a PR/scum hunting move, and was joking around a lot. This game, he didn't do any of that. He asked to be tree stumped, claimed to have only read 2 pages, and thought about writing "50 shades of webdip", then voted lfischl because he thought lfischl was "faking the extreme noobiness." I think we can't figure anything out about his lack of posting.

Bungo's most recent town game (again, last one) he was, similar to this game, a high poster and low content producer, but more jokey (

,

) and mathy (fuck them math posts). As scum (M62), made a lot of Russian reversal jokes, talked about alcohol, and tried to bus Jamie with the whole "communist is only in scum pm". In this game, he is again a high poster with low content. He's definitely making less jokes, and didn't do anything d1 that could be interpreted as a bus. I think his play could be interpreted as more similar to the scum game (more conventional prodding vs "hi, im a pr, nk me"), so I'm going to say that he looks more scummy here.

[Bonatogether]

That looks ugly D:

[ghug]

... ... Wow...I totally missed that.

And here I thought that post was you to begin with.

Whelp...good to know you've lumped Demon and I together.

Do you think people sending PMs are more likely to be PRs, VTs, or SK at night? Do you think aliens/mafia would bother or do it in QT? Do you think masons would bother or do it in QT?

Dude!

[BunnyGo]

And here I thought that post was you to begin with.

Whelp...good to know you've lumped Demon and I together.

Do you think people sending PMs are more likely to be PRs, VTs, or SK at night? Do you think aliens/mafia would bother or do it in QT? Do you think masons would bother or do it in QT?

Dude!

?? B--uuuu---nnnnn---y .. Not Dude. It makes a "B" sound.

[Bonatogether]

... ... Wow...I totally missed that.

And here I thought that post was you to begin with.

Whelp...good to know you've lumped Demon and I together.

Do you think people sending PMs are more likely to be PRs, VTs, or SK at night? Do you think aliens/mafia would bother or do it in QT? Do you think masons would bother or do it in QT?

This is WIFOM, and anyways, it feels kinda slimey to base a case on when someone is sending or receiving pms

[BunnyGo]

And here I thought that post was you to begin with.

Whelp...good to know you've lumped Demon and I together.

Do you think people sending PMs are more likely to be PRs, VTs, or SK at night? Do you think aliens/mafia would bother or do it in QT? Do you think masons would bother or do it in QT?

This is WIFOM, and anyways, it feels kinda slimey to base a case on when someone is sending or receiving pms

Man...ghug keeps hacking other people's accounts.

[ghug]

Whelp...good to know you've lumped Demon and I together.

Do you think people sending PMs are more likely to be PRs, VTs, or SK at night? Do you think aliens/mafia would bother or do it in QT? Do you think masons would bother or do it in QT?

This is WIFOM, and anyways, it feels kinda slimey to base a case on when someone is sending or receiving pms

Man...ghug keeps hacking other people's accounts.

I'm actually fine with using this as a tactic from a mechanical perspective, as there's an easy way for anyone to hide themselves. It's just unclear to me why you think you should be talking about it.

[BunnyGo]

This is WIFOM, and anyways, it feels kinda slimey to base a case on when someone is sending or receiving pms

Man...ghug keeps hacking other people's accounts.

I'm actually fine with using this as a tactic from a mechanical perspective, as there's an easy way for anyone to hide themselves. It's just unclear to me why you think you should be talking about it.

Strictly because it isn't clear to me.

I've sent a few dozen PMs to the GM this game. Some questions for rules, some for posts to GT, some for orders, etc etc.

I expect scum at night to largely use their QT.

Same for the masons.

I don't know about SK.

And some VTs send messages to the GT/questions to GM.

Thoughts?

[BunnyGo]

And here I thought that post was you to begin with.

Whelp...good to know you've lumped Demon and I together.

Do you think people sending PMs are more likely to be PRs, VTs, or SK at night? Do you think aliens/mafia would bother or do it in QT? Do you think masons would bother or do it in QT?

Dude!

If you're fine with it, what's with the "Dude!" response then? I don't understand.

[ghug]

Man...ghug keeps hacking other people's accounts.

I'm actually fine with using this as a tactic from a mechanical perspective, as there's an easy way for anyone to hide themselves. It's just unclear to me why you think you should be talking about it.

Strictly because it isn't clear to me.

I've sent a few dozen PMs to the GM this game. Some questions for rules, some for posts to GT, some for orders, etc etc.

I expect scum at night to largely use their QT.

Same for the masons.

I don't know about SK.

And some VTs send messages to the GT/questions to GM.

Thoughts?

I'll consider discussing it with you during the day if we're both still alive.

[Hamilton Brian]

I town read kgray. Now, she was defending rdr at the time. It could be that rdr is scum, but hr's reaction to it makes me believe if they are both scum then they are not on the same team. I agree that what kgray said is not solid, but she claims to be his spokesperson, which would be risky for two scum to claim. So, that is unlikely. Plus, it outs them both if scum. Why would scum hr be so frustrated over this townread? It may not make sense but to vote and then end on kgray is a strong reaction, which to me tells me that he knows something of rdr's alignment that is not his alignment.
Now, it could be hr is frustrated because kgray townreads his teammate, but then why did he have such a reaction?

Thanks for the continued analysis. It helps. Helps me anyway.

I like that point of spokesperson claims. That never occurred to me, even though I've seen it show up in some previous games. I thought it was just on par with the average banter between familiar people. This gives me a different perspective on it.

[kgray]

You're so friendly and self-aware.

what metric are we using to determine ability? ive mentioned winrates, playing at the highest level in tournament play, amount of games played, and general reputation. none of those seem to be the answer

Good players are like pornography. I know them when I see them, they undeniably turn me on, and they're deeply problematic.

Hmm. I thought you thought I was a good player but obviously I'm not deeply problematic, so I guess that settles that. You can have your scumpoints for voting me D1 revoked.

[kgray]

this is gonna sound mean but does anyone care what ghug thinks this game? I never see him making a post anyone agrees with. nobody seems to care what he says he just gets townread for being objectionable

If he has any ability to play this game I haven't found any evidence yet, so no

Without wishing to blow smoke up ghug arse or be disrespectful to Damo and HB, but I think ghug would've played the roles those guys rolled better.

Hate this post

[Hamilton Brian]

Maybe HR really is the underdog, and learned he has no teammates, and that's why he unraveled and is now just trolling. If there's a SK who killed bozo (or I guess if aliens for some reason wasted their kill on him, or if vig didn't claim) then HR not being in the maf QT would explain why there was only one kill N1.

Wouldn't that be fucked!!! Stranded and isolated.

[ghug]

If he has any ability to play this game I haven't found any evidence yet, so no

Without wishing to blow smoke up ghug arse or be disrespectful to Damo and HB, but I think ghug would've played the roles those guys rolled better.

Hate this post

I liked it a lot.

[ghug]

what metric are we using to determine ability? ive mentioned winrates, playing at the highest level in tournament play, amount of games played, and general reputation. none of those seem to be the answer

Good players are like pornography. I know them when I see them, they undeniably turn me on, and they're deeply problematic.

Hmm. I thought you thought I was a good player but obviously I'm not deeply problematic, so I guess that settles that. You can have your scumpoints for voting me D1 revoked.

If teenage ghug townreads me for insulting her, I must be Durga.

[kgray]

The "scummy" things I remember from town!Maniac include terrible reasons for votes, avoiding questions, and refusing to explain his thought process. I do not ever remember him lecturing town about how they should have done as he suggested, let along cited the page for evidence. And his not-so-subtle chastising of Hamilton for how he responded to Ezio's claim is just patronizing and unhelpful. And this absolute trash reaction to EoD2:



Like seriously? How dare he lecture Hamilton for CCing Ezio and then blame that group of people for anything that happened EoD2. Ridiculous.

typo

Patronising? Moi?

The more observant would know that I dislike indecisive people who could allow scum to manipulate votes. If you're town make up you minds between the two lead wagons at some point to minimise the chances of someone like HR tying the vote.

In all seriousness though @HB I didn't mean to patronise. When you asked for advice I gave it, and I asked now you know what Ezio's response is whether or not you would do the same again. If that is patronising I'm sorry. I honestly don't know if Kgray is seriously offended on your behalf or just faking something here.

I have no idea how you can look at EoD2 and possibly come to the conclusion that Rivera, Demon and I were indecisive. Get out of here.

I'm seriously offended that you're sitting back and calling people out for playing "sub-optimally" and saying "I told you so" when you're not doing anything to forward the game as far as I can tell.

[kgray]

Figuring that it's best to respond to both of kgray's questions at once.

My pre-webdip experience I played a game (Blood on the Clocktower) that was designed with more faking town PR claims (every town was town PR and scum are given fake claims). The best fake claims I've seen were so good because they came early. People know that someone who waited until late to say much can easily tailor their results to fit the current view. And they have plausible deniability when they go late because everyone is a target.

Now, I certainly don't expect Damo to have thought through all the above, but I think some of the core feelings would match up. I think scum Damo would be more acutely aware that the longer he waits on a generic PR claim the better his results have to be once he outs. He would know that he can cherry pick results so he would expect others to expect it. Whereas I think town Damo would be more concerned for himself. He had seen that Ezio has discarded town doctor leaving us low on protective roles.

In my experience with set-ups somewhat similar to this, a good fake claim can almost win the game on its own. That's why you plan them. At least listening to others, he is getting town credit for it so I'd say he's getting quite a lot. While I can only guess why I was chosen, I think it gives him a good answer to the question why out now. Speaking from personal experience, if you out yourself without a good reason, people will sus you regardless of your claim.

To answer the last question in your first post, I don't think that there was much pressure from others on him yet, though there is an indirect pressure as I outlined above. Lastly, I slightly disagree with the premise/wording in your last question. Everyone knows that Damo was claiming I'm not alien though I concede that I'm the only person that knows for sure that he's telling the truth. I think the reasons for scum trying to clear a townie exist here as always. Possibly he wants to pocket me (it worked with Bozo last game). He can always push me as mafia if he really needs to.

I think Ezio's claim came after damo's claim?

But okay. I still lean towards it being more likely that frustrated town!damo outs than calculated scum!damo comes up with this plan. I just don't think it sounds like something damo would do.

[kgray]

Now celaph is composing private message, and Maniac is viewing one!

Jesus Christ Bunny

[kgray]

Maybe HR really is the underdog, and learned he has no teammates, and that's why he unraveled and is now just trolling. If there's a SK who killed bozo (or I guess if aliens for some reason wasted their kill on him, or if vig didn't claim) then HR not being in the maf QT would explain why there was only one kill N1.

When would HR been able to have accessed their new powers in this theory? Could they have been the RBer that ghug claimed?

I think they get their powers N1, so theoretically yes, they could have RB'd N1. I assumed they got QT access N2, but ghug read it differently, and I'm not not sure which is right.