MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[celaph]

@celaph damo was scum back in M61 and M62, were his votes meaningfully different then?

I don't think it's wise reviewing M61 in significant detail this close to EoD. So I'll mostly be speaking about D1 M62. His number of votes lines up better with his town game last game than with this scum game in M62. I believe he voted thrice in each of the last two games and 5 times in M62. And I feel like some of his votes followed reasonable lines of thought and others didn't really. His vote on Worcej to slow the page count is minimally connected. His two votes on Durga (here and here) actually seemed to fall in line with arguments in the thread even if those arguments were provided by his scum teammate you (bunny). I don't see great justification for his Neph vote and I voiced my displeasure with his Maniac vote that game.

Before he died I wrote that he seemed to be struggling to defend his positions when challenged. I think he has done a better job with that this game, but a worse job than I remember in M63.

Overall, I think that my argument is slightly conclusive than I thought. I'm not loving what I see right now, but I'm dropping his priority in terms of DKs.

[kgray]

I am not dead. Important points?

The main concrete thing is Hamilton called out Ezio for lying about discarding Town Doctor. Ezio hasn't responded.

Ghug is scummy because he's not scumhunting. Celaph isn't as insightful as normal. HR is imo overselling his frustration, and is coming off as pretty fake. Basically I expect more out of all 3 of them.

[kgray]

Like there was seriously no reason for town!HR to vote me like that.

[ghug]

Or you could join us on HR

I'm not interested in killing HR today. I'm actually leaning town on him, which is rare, and he's too good to kill day two.

Does it not concern you that you're leaning town on him, if you normally don't when he's town?

I normally can't read him period. Having a read here suggests I'm starting to think I actually understand him. It's new whether I'm right or wrong.

[e.m.c^42]

I am not dead. Important points?

The main concrete thing is Hamilton called out Ezio for lying about discarding Town Doctor. Ezio hasn't responded.

Ghug is scummy because he's not scumhunting. Celaph isn't as insightful as normal. HR is imo overselling his frustration, and is coming off as pretty fake. Basically I expect more out of all 3 of them.

I see. ##vote Ezio to alleviate Jamie's anxiety about replacing me.

[jasnah]

##vote Ezio

Looks like there is solid evidence in this thing and if it's bad we go after HB. About right? I really like open and shut cases. I haven't read like 80% of the past day

[ghug]

##VOTE celaph

[kgray]

##vote Ezio

Looks like there is solid evidence in this thing and if it's bad we go after HB. About right? I really like open and shut cases. I haven't read like 80% of the past day

This is not an open and shut case.

[celaph]

I've heard some people throw out Jasnah's name as a wagon option. I'm not particularly a fan of this. She has certainly been less insightful today and overall not explained her reads, but she was insightful D1 and her behavior today I think is well explained by her own statement that she was going to be inactive today.

How can you think she's been insightful if she never explains any of her thoughts?

My brief scan turned up less than I remember, but I like her comment on rdr and I think it shows that she is thinking about the game in precise ways. Also, I disagree with this idea that she never explains her thoughts. She has on a few occasions, for example (here and here). They aren't great and is why I still have her as null, but I don't think she should be the kill for today.

[Hamilton Brian]

##vote Ezio

Looks like there is solid evidence in this thing and if it's bad we go after HB. About right? I really like open and shut cases. I haven't read like 80% of the past day

Yep; I've got no issue being the next day kill if this goes badly. I don't see it going in that direction.

[ghug]

##vote Ezio

Looks like there is solid evidence in this thing and if it's bad we go after HB. About right? I really like open and shut cases. I haven't read like 80% of the past day

This is not an open and shut case.

Would you have been more receptive to killing Ezio if the wagon hadn't taken off so quickly?

[kgray]

I've heard some people throw out Jasnah's name as a wagon option. I'm not particularly a fan of this. She has certainly been less insightful today and overall not explained her reads, but she was insightful D1 and her behavior today I think is well explained by her own statement that she was going to be inactive today.

How can you think she's been insightful if she never explains any of her thoughts?

My brief scan turned up less than I remember, but I like her comment on rdr and I think it shows that she is thinking about the game in precise ways. Also, I disagree with this idea that she never explains her thoughts. She has on a few occasions, for example (here and here). They aren't great and is why I still have her as null, but I don't think she should be the kill for today.

Fine. You want to join on HR? Otherwise I'm making you Ezio's counterwagon.

[kgray]

##vote Ezio

Looks like there is solid evidence in this thing and if it's bad we go after HB. About right? I really like open and shut cases. I haven't read like 80% of the past day

Yep; I've got no issue being the next day kill if this goes badly. I don't see it going in that direction.

He can be town and be lying, and then if you're not NK'd people will just want to kill you. It could go very badly.

[kgray]

##vote Ezio

Looks like there is solid evidence in this thing and if it's bad we go after HB. About right? I really like open and shut cases. I haven't read like 80% of the past day

This is not an open and shut case.

Would you have been more receptive to killing Ezio if the wagon hadn't taken off so quickly?

Probably? He softed a strong role in a way that was easily disprovable, and is now not around to defend himself. This is foolish.

[jasnah]

@celaph You're defending me even though there are zero votes on me and as far as VCA shows there was never any serious attempt to wagon me (literally nobody has ever voted me)? And despite my wanting to kill you for much of yesterday and today? Seems a little excessive and obviously I'm not going to turn down people townreading me because it really is a great boost for town's chances of winning when I gain credibility, but it's a little funny that celaph says like nothing most of the time while about to die and the next time I see him it's to defend him when I'm at near zero risk of dying

[Hamilton Brian]

This is not an open and shut case.

SO in retrospect, shitty of me NOT to harass Ezio until they finally responded. However, humour me. In what case does it make sense to make a blatant claim that can be easily disproven? Can you think of an example from your experiences where a town player made such a gamble?

[jasnah]

I'm no way voting HR in recognition of the great service of a post he did a while back and I doubt this counterwagon in particular is going to have an extraordinary amount of success

[brainbomb]

I got in trouble at work for phone use. ive not read anything

[ghug]

@celaph You're defending me even though there are zero votes on me and as far as VCA shows there was never any serious attempt to wagon me (literally nobody has ever voted me)? And despite my wanting to kill you for much of yesterday and today? Seems a little excessive and obviously I'm not going to turn down people townreading me because it really is a great boost for town's chances of winning when I gain credibility, but it's a little funny that celaph says like nothing most of the time while about to die and the next time I see him it's to defend him when I'm at near zero risk of dying

This is 10% townie thinking and 90% scummy bluster.

[Vecna]

##vote Ezio

We're letting celaph off the hook here, but Ezio's a more solid case.

the fuck