MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Hamilton Brian]

To be fair, a wagon can form in under five minutes, but if there's a chance you've made an error in reasoning definitely give it a bit longer than that.

Yes; I guess it just depends on how many of us will be actively participating at EoD.

[BunnyGo]

To be fair, a wagon can form in under five minutes, but if there's a chance you've made an error in reasoning definitely give it a bit longer than that.

Yes; I guess it just depends on how many of us will be actively participating at EoD.

I’ll be in and out. I just triple checked my role PMs to make sure it wasn’t accidentally me. I confirm I definitely pitched the mafia role blocker.

[BobMcBob]

This is interesting:

damo666: No. Not celaph today

Kgray: Why? Do you townread him? You don't even seem to have strong scumreads that could be other candidates, so what's wrong with celaph?

damo666 (to Bona): LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU celaph is NOT alien

damo666: "Oh thanks. Cross post with my subsequent post.
We should definitely daykill celaph then."

Kgray: How come you didn't support this before it was pointed out that we could use celaph's flip to determine if there was a psychotrooper? I feel like you should have come to that conclusion on your own after getting an alien scan on someone. [my emphasis added]

I know many of you don't believe in scumslips, but this looks like Kgray believes Damo has a scan different to what Damo has alluded to.

It's enough for me to ##voteKgray.

Okay this is pure idiocy. Unless kgray was completely out of it, what I believe she means is that the scan was a scan *for* aliens, hence alien scan. Alien referred to the scan type, not the scan result.

[Hamilton Brian]

I don't want to out and then have the person come in and stammer some excuses.

[BunnyGo]

I don't want to out and then have the person come in and stammer some excuses.

Hence asking ppl to confess now

[Hamilton Brian]

I'll give it time; going for a run now to shake off yesterday's beer.

[Ezio]

Maniac is def town.

There's no way he should be our target for today. No scum is going to go after kgray here.

[kgray]

Yes, I did.
Kgray, you do currently scumread celaph so I understand where that is coming from, but my scumread then was based off his voting there.
I should look at celaph and give him a closer look.

I just don't understand how you scumread celaph but then assume he's town when forming your read about ghug?

Kgray, I am not currently scumreading celaph as he is null. Do you believe I am missing a part that effects a read on Ghug?
Plus I am looking at in iso so interactions are not a strong point, I will admit.

No I don't necessarily think you're missing connections. I've explained why I think they're connected but others don't have to believe that.

But in your original post that I questioned you said you'd expect for scum!ghug not to move around so much if the wagons were TvT. You did not say what you'd have expected if Celaph is scum (specifically, with ghug).

I'm trying to decide if you just didn't give a complete consideration to EOD, or if you implied that you're scum and Celaph (and likely ghug) isn't on your team.

[kgray]

At its core Maniac's argument is that daykilling good town players D1 is usually bad because of the value that they bring. He sees ghug as a good town player and thus not a good DK D1. Yes, I know I scumread ghug D1. That doesn't mean I can't find an argument supporting not killing him to be reasonable. Do you disagree?

I'll answer your question regarding Maniac with my own. What actions could Maniac take that would make you seem him as scummy?

What do you think of that fact that ghug has made this exact same argument multiple games in a row, and yet started out this game by voting me (after he said last game that I was on a list of do-not-kill-early players)?

And I'm not going to answer your second question because I don't see how it possibly be relevant or help solve this game. You're definitely deflecting, and I can honestly think of no town motivation for you to ask me that.

I'm sure you'll be shocked to hear that I was not a fan. It's almost like I scumread the first 47 hours of ghug's D1.

Regarding the Maniac point, let me ask that question in a different way. You've put Maniac as a townlean. Are there specific quirks or details that while scummy are indicative of town Maniac that you see here (any relatively recent Maniac scum games?)? Because otherwise it seems that you've just given him a carte blanche and then gone on to townread him.

To return to your original question, I didn't answer it because I think it was the wrong question to ask. No, I don't think that he's down anything as scummy as voting his top townread, but I'm not convinced that scum Maniac would necessarily do something that scummy.

I tend to townlean people who act the way they do as town until/unless they start doing scummy things. I've never played with scum!Maniac so yeah, when he's acting like I'm used to, I townlean him.

[kgray]

No, I've just been away for a little while and am working through the backlog of messages. Though I'll comply with your request. HR brought up a good point that damo outed himself to save me. Do you think that Damo takes that risk?

I want to hear your opinion on this. What does damo outing to prevent you from being a wagon tell you?

I think the far more interesting thing is that he went from outing himself to save me to voting me. My mental image of Damo is that he is one who thinks through his choices and at least hearing from others I don't feel like I'm particularly wrong here. For instance, you mentioned that Damo wanted to do the numerically correct play and lay low. Bunny said that scum Damo likes to go deep. Both of you suggest that his current play is atypical for scum (with bunny suggesting atypical for town as well), yet depict him as thoughtful and calculated. Thus, I think it's more likely that he is making an intentional move as scum than has overlooked all this as town.

Okay. I've come to the opposite conclusion. I don't see scum!damo making these wifomy fakeclaim plays, and I think town!damo is more likely to get frustrated with bona in that scenario and spill the info he knows.

[kgray]

Do you think that scum me is not concerned with drawing attention to ghug and myself in the way I have been?

Uh, have you been drawing attention to ghug and yourself? Do you think your changed read of ghug is noteworthy?

Did I think it was initially noteworthy? Not especially. Do I think that it is now that you and I have been discussing it all D2? Yes.

There's a difference between you intentionally drawing attention to your connection with ghug and me finding it and calling it out all day

[BunnyGo]

Maniac is def town.

There's no way he should be our target for today. No scum is going to go after kgray here.

Umm. That’s not true. Scum would be looking for nitpicky stuff to show they’re hunting and sew any doubt. While also saying “just asking”. It’s a very safe scum play.

[kgray]

Ghug, am I that forgettable this game?

Donny and ghug aren't scum buddies.

Meh. This reads like you and chaq

How? Chaqa and I were way more aggressive than this.

[kgray]

This is an interesting take. Damo could very easily go very deep if he was an alien claiming conspiracy theorist, but only if he knew conspiracy theorist wasn't in play otherwise. I'd say it's unlikely, but it's a possibility at least.

Don't give Bunny credit for that, I said it first.

No. I did. You then ran with it.

That's not how I remember it, but if I go back and check I might have to admit I was wrong, so I don't want to do that

[kgray]

Yesterday really got away from me. Spent a lot of time thinking on how to run this and in classic Brian fashion I'll probably botch it. I might just slow drip it then make the announcement a couple hours before the vote.

Anyway, I can confirm there's a bullshit claim on Bozo's list.

Ooh, I'm excited for this!

Also, this has to be town!Hamilton. No offense to Hamilton, but when he was scum last game he couldn't even explain a vote after being coached in scumchat. There's no way this is some planned scum ploy.

[BunnyGo]

Donny and ghug aren't scum buddies.

Meh. This reads like you and chaq

How? Chaqa and I were way more aggressive than this.

Yes, but you and Chaqa are more aggressive players. This feels like they'd decided to fight more than actually see things they care about.

[kgray]

This is interesting:

damo666: No. Not celaph today

Kgray: Why? Do you townread him? You don't even seem to have strong scumreads that could be other candidates, so what's wrong with celaph?

damo666 (to Bona): LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU celaph is NOT alien

damo666: "Oh thanks. Cross post with my subsequent post.
We should definitely daykill celaph then."

Kgray: How come you didn't support this before it was pointed out that we could use celaph's flip to determine if there was a psychotrooper? I feel like you should have come to that conclusion on your own after getting an alien scan on someone. [my emphasis added]

I know many of you don't believe in scumslips, but this looks like Kgray believes Damo has a scan different to what Damo has alluded to.

It's enough for me to ##voteKgray.

What? Damo claimed celaph wasn't an alien so he's claiming to be a conspiracy theorist who scans for aliens. In what world is this a scumslip?

[kgray]

It's enough for me to ##voteKgray.

Not sure where the post is exactly but I think Damo declared themselves as not alien, right?

Yes in effect Damo has said he has an innocent scan and Kgray has called that an alien scan. Does she (Kgray) know celaph is alien and that there is a psychotrooper making damo666 scan read as inno.

"alien scan" = "scan for aliens" which is what damo was claiming to be able to do. I wasn't saying damo had a guilty on celaph.

[BunnyGo]

This is interesting:

damo666: No. Not celaph today

Kgray: Why? Do you townread him? You don't even seem to have strong scumreads that could be other candidates, so what's wrong with celaph?

damo666 (to Bona): LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU celaph is NOT alien

damo666: "Oh thanks. Cross post with my subsequent post.
We should definitely daykill celaph then."

Kgray: How come you didn't support this before it was pointed out that we could use celaph's flip to determine if there was a psychotrooper? I feel like you should have come to that conclusion on your own after getting an alien scan on someone. [my emphasis added]

I know many of you don't believe in scumslips, but this looks like Kgray believes Damo has a scan different to what Damo has alluded to.

It's enough for me to ##voteKgray.

What? Damo claimed celaph wasn't an alien so he's claiming to be a conspiracy theorist who scans for aliens. In what world is this a scumslip?

Because damo claimed to get a "human" result. That's the premise.

[BunnyGo]

Not sure where the post is exactly but I think Damo declared themselves as not alien, right?

Yes in effect Damo has said he has an innocent scan and Kgray has called that an alien scan. Does she (Kgray) know celaph is alien and that there is a psychotrooper making damo666 scan read as inno.

"alien scan" = "scan for aliens" which is what damo was claiming to be able to do. I wasn't saying damo had a guilty on celaph.

Yes...that's what Bob already said