MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[e.m.c^42]

K I've been authorized to speak for my team:

Aliens, y'all handle Bunny. We'll get one of the other people who've intimated they're town PRs.

Is this counter-counterbait?

[Hamilton Brian]

We doing reads just before EOD? I've got mine but no reasons why, just the list.

[brainbomb]

rivera probably isnt maf, I doubt we had anything positive happen for us d1

[kgray]

For the record, after became apparent that Demon wasn't kicking the bucket I was hoping for the rdrivera wagon until the end, the end being T-4 as HR valiantly wrote in his hell of an impressive analysis. I didn't switch off until it was obvious that my vote was definitely going to be wasted there and I'm kind of annoyed that the people who went rdr -> bunnygo -> celaph barely considered going back to the original wagon.

If you felt so strongly about a wagon near EOD why didn't you support it and encourage others to join you? Saying in hindsight what you wished had happened but not doing anything about it at the time is scummy.

[ghug]

K I've been authorized to speak for my team:

Aliens, y'all handle Bunny. We'll get one of the other people who've intimated they're town PRs.

The hell is this? Tell me you're putting us on.

I prefer talking things off

[brainbomb]

would love to see ezio, emc, vecna, damo, all under excrutiating medieval level torture this phase until one dies

[kgray]

@ bunny go I don't even play press diplomacy so it seems like you're writing a lot of redundant filler, which kgray brought up as a scum read.

I do not and would not scumread Bunny for talking a lot, pretty much no matter how much (or how little) content I think he's producing. I mistakenly scumread him in the first game I played with town!Bunny because I thought he was posting a lot of fluff to look active, so that's not a scumtell for him imo.

[brainbomb]

bozo too

[kgray]

I looked at Damos iso and there seems to be a lot of posts but little substance. There are few reads in there too and there are few statements or remarks that I remember town Damo tends to have. Also Damo has been pretty quiet tonight.

I rarely have reads this early Donny

Someone should check this, I don't think this is true. Usually town!damo will at least speculate even on only N1.

[brainbomb]

probably spare donny and HB.
probably try to trust ghug

never kill rhk, kgray

[Hamilton Brian]

K I've been authorized to speak for my team:

Aliens, y'all handle Bunny. We'll get one of the other people who've intimated they're town PRs.

The hell is this? Tell me you're putting us on.

I prefer talking things off

You're a sassy dirty ghug, aren't you.

[DemonRHK]

Qucikstryle since I closed my reply when I saw that shit:

Solid town
kgrey

Lean town
HR
brain
donny

Scum lean
cel
damo
emc

Wild card
bona

What the actual fucking fuck
ghug

[kgray]

K I've been authorized to speak for my team:

Aliens, y'all handle Bunny. We'll get one of the other people who've intimated they're town PRs.

Is this counter-counterbait?

So one of like 3 posts emc responds to is directly addressing aliens

[brainbomb]

bob and bona might be both okay, not really sure

[Bonatogether]

But unless you're going to scumread yourself for tying it, why are you not doing the VCA to work out who *YOU* think is scum? I don't care whether you think people would believe you. I care that you made a concerted push for there to be VCA so you could use it to find scum, but then you aren't using it to find scum.

I know who I think is scum

Is it based on VCA? And how did EOD change your reads?

1) Partially.

2) Bona's theory of the major wagons (>3 voters and in first) through the day

(I had a post written up in direct response to your question but then I figured it would be more organized like this, so I rewrote it.)

The early ghug wagon was entirely meta based and in retaliation (there's a better word that I can't think of rn) for last game. Given ghug's reputation as a good player, I think that it's at least partially scum based, but none of the votes build off of each other (kgray voted for meta, brain, donny, and vecna didn't give a reason, demon voted for "being salty", lfischl voted out of omgus), so it's probably not coordinated. I'd put donny, brain, and especially vecna as looking bad here.

lfischl wagon, round 1 (before T-0:15) was also not very coordinated in that none of the first 4 posts used the same reasoning. Only the fifth vote, celaph's, uses an earlier logic (ghug's). It peaks at 6, with the arguments being uselessness (ghug, celaph, bob), meta (donny), accusing of struggling to come up with reads (kgray), and unstated (bungo, hb). I'd say celaph, bunny, and hb don't look as good here, because celaph seems to be copying, and bunny and hb seem to be looking for an easy vote. (I almost put Hr but fixed it :) )

The rdrivera wagon was more coordinated, but overly so, so it's also probably composed of town or scum shooting randomly. Bozo voted rdr at T-9:20, and then Demon, brain, and kgray voted for him at T-1:30. I voted for rd right afterwards for "competitive wagons", but then switched to celaph. Jasnah voted rd since she prefered the wagon over the lfischl wagon. lfischl voted for survival, again. Probably town-driven with a scum or two hopping on to blend in - kgray, or, more likely, jasnah are the two I'd guess.

Brain was the first voter on the bungo speedwagon, but kgray is the one who suggested it. I followed, since I scumread bunny, as well as Demon, celaph, and ghug. This is the first wagon that I'd say has a high chance (>70%) of being scum-boosted. Brain and kgray look...fine here. Demon switching over killed the rd wagon, since he was the main pusher there. It's interesting that brain, kgray, and demon were all the main force behind two seperate wagons. Perhaps there's a possible link there. celaph was late and doesn't provide a reason. I think it's pretty clear this is a major difference from the last two games. Only damo joins later, and he doesn't state a reason (he had even just asked what the cases were on people, so I think that it's more likely that that he was looking for an easy vote to wait.

Then the celaph wagon shows up and is the THIRD wagon where kgray, demon, and ghug were prime early movers, and shows up solely because kgray posted "Okay, my gut is actually telling me that Bunny is town. Let's do ##vote celaph instead." This wagon shoots straight up to 6 votes, with the other 3 people being me, donny, and bunny. I scumread celaph, and donny and bunny don't give reasons. It goes up and down, slowing picking up 2 more votes (Maniac and jasnah), who are probably not on the ghug/kgray/demon team for the rest of the day.

And the real show, lfischl wagon, round 2, was really weird. At T-0:15, he was down to 2 votes (Hb and bob), who were probably afk. Then, he started picking up more votes extremely quickly, starting with emc putting a placeholder vote ("##vote lfisc for now"), then celaph for survival, ghug (possibly to tie it? I'm not sure what he said), damo for no given reason (who just voted bunny as well), and ezio (again, no given reason). This wagon has significantly different people than the earlier lfischl wagon (wagon 1 was ghug, bob, celaph, donny, kgray, hb, bungo, wagon 2 was ghug, bob, celaph, damo, emc, ezio, and hb), so I think these wagons must be treated seperately. This wagon builds up very quickly and almost no one gives reasons of their own, aside from pointing to my meta read on him or the earlier reasons from the earlier, dead wagon. This is highly likely to be scum motivated, and, by necessity, a different scumteam from the celaph wagon.

The next vote is me tying it. Nothing much can be read into it thereafter.

Therefore I conclude that there is one scumteam hunting for the other, and one playing a more conventional game. kgray, ghug, and demon are almost certainly aligned (at most one is different). damo and celaph doesn't give reasons for their votes (scummy), while a lot of people were shifting around, creating 2 speedwagons at the end of day, perhaps to cover for each other. I agree with HR that rdr was being covered for, but I also suggest that celaph was being covered for.


I also haven't read anything since the post I'm responding to.

[Hamilton Brian]

Great cesar's ghost wall of text Bona.

Here's all I have so far. Mind you, HR and Bunny were on my scumdar after yesterday but this afternoon saw them move.

Reads (N1 PM):
Town: Bob, Brain, Donny, kgray. Bunny, HR,
Null: Bozo, Celaph, Demon, ghug, macca, maniac, rdr, vecna, bona
Scum: Damo, EMC, Ezio (EMC and EZIO just because of significant lack of engagement)(Bona for yeah, nothing…) Jasnah...not sure the posts have been helpful; love the attitude but I’m not reading them well clearly.

[DemonRHK]

-DO-

Claim ROLEBLOCKS
Claim STUMPINGS

-DO NOT-

Claim LOUD VISITS
Claim WERE SAVED or DID SAVE

[ghug]

Townreads on Bob, brain, bona. kgray seems good, but I think she's gonna be capable of fooling me in a setup like this.

People compellingly hunting isn't a good metric for towniness in a game like this. If I somehow die, look for connections and people playing carefree.

Praying for tree stump.

[Hellenic Riot]

EoN1 Reads:

BobMcBob - Very solid townread. Solid questioning, plenty thoughts. Big fan.

Bonatogether - Ignoring the shitshow that was the deliberate tying I've found his absence of effort tonight, after making such a big deal about VCA, to be pretty poor. I'm not willing to instantly clear him because no scum would ever do that, and in particular if celaph is scum I think he looks very bad. Slight scum.

bozotheclown - Very low presence. Did essentially nothing, including no weirdness, D1... And N1 he seems to have gone back & forth over whether celaph claiming VT is townie or not. Somewhat less slight scum.

brainbomb - Pretty solid townread currently. The fact he even made a case I agree with (on emc) means there's some frozen popsicles in Tartarus at present, but I'm reassured by how wrong I believe he is on Bunny, so all is not lost.

BunnyGo - Didn't like the wagon on him, and the VCA doesn't show any attempt to consolidate or rescue him at all. Given his semi-claim it's unlikely he lives long term anyway, but I'm pretty content to mark him as town.

celaph - Pretty meh all around. Normally I'd say that two scum being up for grabs D1 is unlikely and with my scumread on rdrivera getting stronger that should rule celaph out; but with two scumteams that logic doesn't hold up. Null.

damo666 - Find his vote pattern to be the worst of anyone, as the timing of his vote on BunnyGo after that wagon had clearly died really sticks out as bad, and looks more like a way for him to cover up a more direct flip onto fisch. Has done essentially nothing else of note, and could conceivably have been protecting either rdrivera *or* celaph D1. There's been very little questioning and no strange damoish thought processes going on either. Scum.

DemonRHK - Don't like the way he left the rdrivera wagon and refused the opportunity to return it when the Bunny wagon died. Don't understand how he got those early townreads either, and he *did* feel very awkward & defensive in his entrance. Slight scum

Donny Dude - Didn't like the way he agreed with a townread on DemonRHK and then forgot all about it, but the rest of his game has been pretty solid with some potent questioning, so I'm leaning town.

emc - Awful, really awful D1. This reads like an emc who's subbed into a game on D6 and can't be bothered reading anything, and it's the absolute antithesis of his recent games (in which he's always been town), so I can definitely buy that emc's 180 is just because he isn't town. Whilst personal life issues are a perfectly plausible excuse, I find the fact that the enthusiasm has 180'd even from the Signup thread to be most telling there. Scum.

Ezio - Exists. Has done pretty much nothing but managed to get angry at lfisch being daykilled despite him voting lfisch, which read pretty disingenous. Null.

ghug - Not entirely sure. I felt his game to be very anterior compared to last game early on but was apparently an outlier on that thought. Given he openly said after last game that he'd tailored his play specifically to get certain people including myself to townread him I'm also pretty wary that he might be doing the same thing again in the other direction. Regarding the rest of his day he felt more like himself but if rdrivera is scum he looks really bad. Still, he did at least break the tie. Null

Hamilton Brian - Back to his usual self this game, making the slightly awkward questions that draw attention to himself and which were totally absent from his game last time out, so I'm parking a very solid townread here.

jasnah - I concur that I feel she'd play this way no matter which alignment she rolled, from all I've seen of her presence on the rest of the forums & the discords. I suspect it's going to get her a lot of pressure in the midgame but her vote pattern was decent and I haven't found her thought processes that hard to follow, even if she doesn't explain everything. Slight town.

kgray - Not getting a particularly strong townie feeling at the moment, and I feel like she's attacking me over rdrivera as a way to cover up her own weakness on not going back to him when he was still a viable wagon post-Bunny. I don't recall having to make such circular arguments with her in the past either. Slight scum

Macca573 - Very low presence, I can barely remember anything they've done this game. Given I recollect them being a pretty solid townread last time they played this gives me very similar vibes to the sort I was getting off of HB early last game, and I definitely think Macca needs looking at more closely. Slight scum.

Maniac - Exists. Nothing to really say, although the VCA looks pretty good for him if either rdrivera *or* celaph is scum, which is noteworthy as that's pretty much unique. Null

rdrivera2005 - His D1 was very lazy, just like last game, but his N1 has been worse. He almost seems to be parodying his own game from last time: Come in with a much weaker OMGUS on me that this time makes no sense whatsoever both because I initially didn't scumread him and also because I wasn't anywhere near the hardest pusher of him D1. I don't remotely understand why he'd claim that he softed something D1 both because I saw no such soft and because who the hell comes in and says that they've softed something unless it's during a hardclaim anyway? The VCA also makes it look look like rdrivera is the most likely person to have been saved D1. All in all, pretty strong scumread now.

Vecna - Exists. Has done nothing. Will probably get killed anyway. Null.

[Jamiet99uk]

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PLEASE HOLD - CEASE YOUR POSTING
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