MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[celaph]

But maybe I should ask him. @Celaph, how come you weren't pushing back against your wagon more? Why didn't you give your reads when you were on the block? What are your reads?

To answer your first question, the short answer is because I felt hopeless, didn't believe that I would live. The votes against me, at least those that have been explained, were gut/meta reads. Bona because I'm more jovial. You because I'm less confident. I can't push back against something like that in an instant. I convince you by how I play the rest of the game. It doesn't help that I don't have any mechanical info to work with.

I don't have a good answer to your second question. I remember the thought crossing my mind with roughly 5 minutes less, but I didn't get further than I blank message.

In terms of reads:
Likely town: you (kgray) and Bob.
Lean town: Bona, Donny, bb, and ghug. Donny is the person on this list who I remember the least of, but reading his iso he has asked a lot of good questions. This night he has done a better job turning those questions into statements which I like and hope to see more of.
Lean town/don't want to kill yet: Bunny, Damo, and Vecna. I've separated these out because while I lean them town for now, the value of the reasons will fall off later on. Vecna is here because of the value of town Vecna and I think his behavior tonight shows confidence. Bunny and Damo are the town non-VT claims. This gives them some credit, but given the set-up far less than it would in previous games.
Shade town: HR.
Null: Most everyone else. Of people of note, I think Jasnah is worth watching because she has been insightful on some points though her behavior is generally anti-town.
Shade scum: Maniac and Ezio for their poorly justified votes at the end. Jasnah and Damo also fit that description, but I think Jasnah has contributed slightly more than either of them and damo has claimed non-VT.

[celaph]

What's the spread on those of us that are PST or over in Australia? Seems like there are many people that we'd like to hear from. Mania. Vecna. Damo. Jasnah. Ezio. Celaph.

I'm PST for the record though my sleep schedule might beg to differ.

[BobMcBob]

Btw, while on page 79 I will say lfischl looked pretty bad at that point, voting him was very reasonable, and more natural than rdr.

So what does this tell you about the people that took the less "natural" route and voted Rivera instead of lfischl, who was town?

I don't think they made a bad choice necessarilly, rdrivera looked kinda scummy, but I think that it was close enough to what I believe is standard rdr play that it wasn't worth voting over. Maybe people who'd played with lfischl would say the same about that vote though (can't remember what they said anymore).

[BunnyGo]

Hi all,

Sorry for the blowup yesterday. I was myself guilty of doing what I accused bona and brainbomb of doing: focusing on self over town. I got this way the last time I was a PR, and did it again this time. C'est la vie. I'll try again in the future.

Going forward: focus on reads. If most of our discard claims are true, we have a potential serial killer to hunt (and cannot scan for) and lots and lots of aliens.

The aliens can only harm us once or twice, but WILL be able to vanilla-ize is (assuming in the game). I would recommend thinking of this game as a strange all vanilla game (with hopefully 3 masons?!). Consider using LOUD as a way to clear yourself to other town?

Don't make it easy for the vanilla-izer.

Doctor(s) out there, don't save me. Let the scum WIFOM on that.

Keep it together, obv town, and I think this game will need to scum hunt by process of elimination. I think many of us are having an easier time finding town than scum. So focus on your strengths.

Some reads:

kgray: probably town. Not just for mech reasons, but she hasn't yet been doing what she did in our last scum game that I thought was a distinction.

bona: almost surely town. Keep up finding other obv town.

Bob: This is very very interesting. He's clearly putting in the work. But I'm worried he's an alien. He's playing exactly like I would were I scum and there was another team out there. ACTUALLY HUNTING to hide. Posting all the effort and reads. He's "obvtowning" but I'm getting a bad vibe.

celaph: I agree that in many ways he looks towny, but his posts strike me as subtly different. He's not responding the ways I predict he will. He's superficially the same, but there's a je ne sais quoi of town!celaph that isn't here yet.

damo: drunk. towny vibes, but wouldn't put in town core yet.

Donny: Getting towny vibes from him. Somehow less worrisome than the vibes from Bob. That said: the tell for Jimbo is that Jamiet puts words in your mouth when scum. Donny is questioning a lot, and if you see that, look more closely.

brain: .....

ghug: is off. Not sure why. I wouldn't have expected him to pick scum with a choice. But I dunno what's up.

jasnah: This is how she postures in general. Aggressive. Power. Pushy. Confident. It seems NAI to me. @jasnah, this is not diplomacy. I think our discussions with brotherbored and mind reading play much much more into this game. Obvtowning so that others can hunt by process of elimination is crucial.

Vecna: no idea

rdr: no idea

Macca: ugh. starting to townlean? They're earnest at least. I dunno.

Hellenic Riot: watch closely

Hamilton Brian: Towny town. I like what Hamilton is dealing here.

ezio: Answer my questions please.

emc: who?

Demon: I don't know why everyone was harping on Demon. I got null for him.

bozo: hasn't started playing yet. Null.

Take those for the toilet paper they aren't even written on.


Good luck all. I'll probably not make it back to EON. Sorry for losing my cool yesterday.

[Donny Dude]

I looked at Damos iso and there seems to be a lot of posts but little substance. There are few reads in there too and there are few statements or remarks that I remember town Damo tends to have. Also Damo has been pretty quiet tonight.

[jasnah]

For the record, after became apparent that Demon wasn't kicking the bucket I was hoping for the rdrivera wagon until the end, the end being T-4 as HR valiantly wrote in his hell of an impressive analysis. I didn't switch off until it was obvious that my vote was definitely going to be wasted there and I'm kind of annoyed that the people who went rdr -> bunnygo -> celaph barely considered going back to the original wagon.

[Donny Dude]

I looked at Damos iso and there seems to be a lot of posts but little substance. There are few reads in there too and there are few statements or remarks that I remember town Damo tends to have. Also Damo has been pretty quiet tonight.

On the last sentence, I would expect a town Damo from d1 saying he messed up to be more involved tonight if he expects to be nkd.

[jasnah]

@ bunny go I don't even play press diplomacy so it seems like you're writing a lot of redundant filler, which kgray brought up as a scum read.

As said before I'm not opposed to a bunny wagon although I would like to see celaph and rdrivera resolved to some extent first.

I doubt any of bunny celaph or rdrivera are dying, and although I voiced my paranoia earlier I think I'll probably be spared as well as scum would probably dismiss me as not the most diligent or well-liked member of town, which isn't wrong.

I dare scum to WIFOM using the above. Let's see how much they think they can get away with. Rest assured town, the truth will prevail

[damo666]

HR says my vote pattern is atrocious.

Let me explain.

I voted Bozo as per my theory.

Bozo wasn't gaining traction and not being particularly fond of the rdr or celaph wagons I voted Bunny who has been a tad wierd.

When celaph switched from Bunny to lfischl there was no point leaving my vote on Bunny. Again not being enthused by the rdr or celaph wagons I switched to lfischl.

Had lfischl flipeed scum my vote would look brilliant.

I don't see how my votes look any more atrocious than HR's, Ezio's or celaph's. Ghug and Bona just look indecisive townies to me.

[damo666]

I looked at Damos iso and there seems to be a lot of posts but little substance. There are few reads in there too and there are few statements or remarks that I remember town Damo tends to have. Also Damo has been pretty quiet tonight.

I rarely have reads this early Donny

[Donny Dude]

HR says my vote pattern is atrocious.

Let me explain.

I voted Bozo as per my theory.

Bozo wasn't gaining traction and not being particularly fond of the rdr or celaph wagons I voted Bunny who has been a tad wierd.

When celaph switched from Bunny to lfischl there was no point leaving my vote on Bunny. Again not being enthused by the rdr or celaph wagons I switched to lfischl.

Had lfischl flipeed scum my vote would look brilliant.

I don't see how my votes look any more atrocious than HR's, Ezio's or celaph's. Ghug and Bona just look indecisive townies to me.

In fact ouside of voting lfi, no mention of him, celaph or rdr from d1 via ctr f.

[damo666]

HR says my vote pattern is atrocious.

Let me explain.

I voted Bozo as per my theory.

Bozo wasn't gaining traction and not being particularly fond of the rdr or celaph wagons I voted Bunny who has been a tad wierd.

When celaph switched from Bunny to lfischl there was no point leaving my vote on Bunny. Again not being enthused by the rdr or celaph wagons I switched to lfischl.

Had lfischl flipeed scum my vote would look brilliant.

I don't see how my votes look any more atrocious than HR's, Ezio's or celaph's. Ghug and Bona just look indecisive townies to me.

In fact ouside of voting lfi, no mention of him, celaph or rdr from d1 via ctr f.

I think Bozo, emc and Vecna are the only people I did mention. And the Bozo theory was the only thing of consequence.

[Donny Dude]

I looked at Damos iso and there seems to be a lot of posts but little substance. There are few reads in there too and there are few statements or remarks that I remember town Damo tends to have. Also Damo has been pretty quiet tonight.

I rarely have reads this early Donny

Yeah, but there was more there from m63.

[ghug]

K I've been authorized to speak for my team:

Aliens, y'all handle Bunny. We'll get one of the other people who've intimated they're town PRs.

[brainbomb]

bunny if youre vigging me youll wanna change targets.

[kgray]

Because I decided I really didn't like the Bunny wagon, and didn't want to noob-kill fisch. You've literally just said how you think that town would have a preference about who they want to die rather than be totally ambivalent, only to then criticise me for... Having a preference. Some deeply circular logic going on there.

But I still don't understand *why* you had preferences. You voting for Rivera took me by surprise, since you were discouraging me from scumreading him earlier. You asked for a case on celaph (even though you'd pointed out something that seemed off about him) but didn't seem to consider either voting him or defending him. I still do not know why you thought Rivera was a better DK than celaph, except for "Rivera tends to scumread HR" which I find pretty lame, and I don't understand why you were so reluctant to vote for celaph if you didn't want to noob-kill lfischl.

I have no idea what you're talking about me pointing something being off with celaph - I don't recall any such feeling. But it's quite simple: I wasn't happy with any of the wagons that were on offer, but the rdrivera wagon had the least reason for me to not vote it. The fact rdrivera sucked hard D1 when he was town last game and sucked hard again this D1 did indeed mean that I didn't find your case super convincing, but it also didn't remotely convince me he was going to be town just because he sucked either. He just sucked.

I was referring to when you questioned his vote for lfischl by pointing out that Vecna and emc hadn't contributed anything

[DemonRHK]

K I've been authorized to speak for my team:

Aliens, y'all handle Bunny. We'll get one of the other people who've intimated they're town PRs.

I was putting a reads list together but what in the king six actual horsefuck

[ghug]

K I've been authorized to speak for my team:

Aliens, y'all handle Bunny. We'll get one of the other people who've intimated they're town PRs.

I was putting a reads list together but what in the king six actual horsefuck

:)

[kgray]

Now kgray, given that you apparently *were* fairly convinced that rdrivera was scum, I have some questions of my own:

A) Why did YOU not switch back from celaph when rdrivera took the lead after you thought the wagon was dead?
B) Do you think those reasons apply to DemonRHK who had the same pattern as you, too?
C) What do you think about the other conclusions from my VCA, primarily how atrocious damo looks there?

I wouldn't say I was fairly convinced, but yeah I definitely thought/think it's possible that Rivera is scum. I don't know, the Rivera wagon wasn't feeling right, I definitely changed my mind about Bunny, and celaph made sense at the time.

I won't speak for Demon's reasons, I don't know what he was thinking. But I think how he moved around felt similar to what I was doing - trying out different wagons to see what felt right, trying to come to a group decision. And I think it seemed unreserved and therefore towny, and I especially think his beginning of the N1 was towny.

I read your post but honestly haven't thought about it critically yet, so I haven't analyzed your conclusions. I think damo's vote was weird, and likely means he and Bunny are not teammates, but I haven't thought about what it means about Rivera. I am suspicious of damo because I feel like he's hiding in the background again.

[Hamilton Brian]

K I've been authorized to speak for my team:

Aliens, y'all handle Bunny. We'll get one of the other people who've intimated they're town PRs.

The hell is this? Tell me you're putting us on.