MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[ghug]

Cause I figure my credibility is in the tank and that people will say that I'm just trying to cover for myself

So rather than use the thing you've vociferously desired all game to try and find scum you'd rather just wallow in self-pity in case you get autodaykilled? Alright then.

No, I don't think people will read it for what it is, but will rather take it as a defense of the whole tying thing

You don't get to use this as an excuse to not hunt. I think there's a large contingent who thinks you're eager town who made a mistake, but it becomes harder to defend you if your play continues to be anti-town.

You've got nothing to lose. Stop caring what people think of you. It will set you free.

[ghug]

Right, but that's why I said his movement could be him mimicking his town game. He was caught and killed fairly quickly last game so I imagine he'd put more effort into replicating his town game if he's scum again.

If the leading wagons aren't scum's teammates, why would scum really care who dies? Maybe they have a slight preference based on what those people's reads are, or how good they generally are at solving, but at the end of the day if it's not a teammate then that's all scum really care about.

Townies, on the other hand, generally have some sort of preference, even if it's just gut or if it isn't strong. So if the wagons are TvT (like they were from your perspective if you're town) then ambivalence is generally scummy. You don't find it scummy that ghug didn't care who died, hence my questioning of your towniness.

I think the post you're quoting is about celaph not claiming (referencing me not claiming when I was tied for the lead last game, which happened because my teammate had claimed the role I had planned to claim).

As for my not caring which of the two went down, you have to remember that I was instrumental in putting both on the block in the first place. I was excited to see either die, and wanted to see where others fell.

Oh, I thought he was talking about you not moving your vote around near EOD in a TvT?

And you said that setting up the two wagons that you wanted on the block was part of your strategy as scum in M60. So that's not a very compelling reason for me to townread you :)

Yeah, I get why you'd think that. The reason you townread me that whole game, though, is that it was good town play then too

I did it with damo and celaph in the Chaqa game too. I failed to get two wagons I liked most days in the game you won because the town was stupid.

[kgray]

Did you miss the part where Bona then voted rdrivera and actually put him in the lead after my vote? Or the part where Maniac joined it later too? Doesn't seem like a very dead wagon to me. In fact, the excuse that it was a dead-wagon that coincidentally took the lead looks like a great excuse for explaining why you didn't go back to your teammate when the votes really mattered.

I'm not talking about what happened afterwards. I still don't understand how you discourage the Rivera wagon, tell me he's acting like he did as town and that you're not going to scumread him for that, and then jump on that wagon after a giant movement towards another wagon.

Because I decided I really didn't like the Bunny wagon, and didn't want to noob-kill fisch. You've literally just said how you think that town would have a preference about who they want to die rather than be totally ambivalent, only to then criticise me for... Having a preference. Some deeply circular logic going on there.

But I still don't understand *why* you had preferences. You voting for Rivera took me by surprise, since you were discouraging me from scumreading him earlier. You asked for a case on celaph (even though you'd pointed out something that seemed off about him) but didn't seem to consider either voting him or defending him. I still do not know why you thought Rivera was a better DK than celaph, except for "Rivera tends to scumread HR" which I find pretty lame, and I don't understand why you were so reluctant to vote for celaph if you didn't want to noob-kill lfischl.

[BobMcBob]

kgray and Hamilton, are you still refusing to answer?

Ezio and Macca, are you still ignoring this?

Bob, are you still not saying what non-town faction you discarded?

We can't trust anything from now on with the claims cause they could have discussed it in their QT

This is a problem I have with claiming now, ghug will be suspicious of me if I'm suddenly willing to claim. *However*, I also now have slightly more reason to claim so I don't know. So I discarded a mafia aligned role.

[ghug]

kgray and Hamilton, are you still refusing to answer?

Ezio and Macca, are you still ignoring this?

Bob, are you still not saying what non-town faction you discarded?

We can't trust anything from now on with the claims cause they could have discussed it in their QT

This is a problem I have with claiming now, ghug will be suspicious of me if I'm suddenly willing to claim. *However*, I also now have slightly more reason to claim so I don't know. So I discarded a mafia aligned role.

Tell us which and I won't be suspicious of you.

[kgray]

I failed to get two wagons I liked most days in the game you won because the scum was great.

Fixed this for you

[ghug]

We can't trust anything from now on with the claims cause they could have discussed it in their QT

This is a problem I have with claiming now, ghug will be suspicious of me if I'm suddenly willing to claim. *However*, I also now have slightly more reason to claim so I don't know. So I discarded a mafia aligned role.

Tell us which and I won't be suspicious of you.

I'd also like to know why you think you have more reason to claim now, but that's probably something better left to daytime.

[ghug]

I failed to get two wagons I liked most days in the game you won because the scum was great.

Fixed this for you

¿Porque no los dos?

[Donny Dude]

We can't trust anything from now on with the claims cause they could have discussed it in their QT

This is a problem I have with claiming now, ghug will be suspicious of me if I'm suddenly willing to claim. *However*, I also now have slightly more reason to claim so I don't know. So I discarded a mafia aligned role.

Tell us which and I won't be suspicious of you.

Ghug rolefishing I see.
Ghug, why do you want to know bob's discard in particular?

[kgray]

I failed to get two wagons I liked most days in the game you won because the scum was great.

Fixed this for you

¿Porque no los dos?

I'll accept that.

[BobMcBob]

What is your read on Jasnah Bob?

My gut has been consistently saying obnoxious town. Maybe I'm wrong and I probably missed half her posts but that's the way it's come off so far.

Do you think town just because you think she's obnoxious? Or is there something else?

Basically, yes. It seems like the kind of play that I wouldn't expect from a noob scum. Although perhaps she's just the kind of person who would do this anyway. She definitely doesn't have much else going for her.

[ghug]

This is a problem I have with claiming now, ghug will be suspicious of me if I'm suddenly willing to claim. *However*, I also now have slightly more reason to claim so I don't know. So I discarded a mafia aligned role.

Tell us which and I won't be suspicious of you.

Ghug rolefishing I see.
Ghug, why do you want to know bob's discard in particular?

I want to know every discarded scum role. This isn't new.

[damo666]

What's the spread on those of us that are PST or over in Australia? Seems like there are many people that we'd like to hear from. Mania. Vecna. Damo. Jasnah. Ezio. Celaph.

Will post again after the night's results if I survive. I've got nothing meaningful to offer if I don't.

I think town!damo usually cares more.

It's just D1 that's all.

[ghug]

Fixed this for you

¿Porque no los dos?

I'll accept that.

My curse since I've come back is that I'm only good at convincing people of things when I'm wrong.

[BobMcBob]

This is a problem I have with claiming now, ghug will be suspicious of me if I'm suddenly willing to claim. *However*, I also now have slightly more reason to claim so I don't know. So I discarded a mafia aligned role.

Tell us which and I won't be suspicious of you.

I'd also like to know why you think you have more reason to claim now, but that's probably something better left to daytime.

I feel like I have more reason to claim now because bozo seems to be putting together a pretty good analysis of likely scumteam figures, something which wasn't happening when you pressed me. Would you prefer I claim the role now or in the day phase?

[Hellenic Riot]

I'm not talking about what happened afterwards. I still don't understand how you discourage the Rivera wagon, tell me he's acting like he did as town and that you're not going to scumread him for that, and then jump on that wagon after a giant movement towards another wagon.

Because I decided I really didn't like the Bunny wagon, and didn't want to noob-kill fisch. You've literally just said how you think that town would have a preference about who they want to die rather than be totally ambivalent, only to then criticise me for... Having a preference. Some deeply circular logic going on there.

But I still don't understand *why* you had preferences. You voting for Rivera took me by surprise, since you were discouraging me from scumreading him earlier. You asked for a case on celaph (even though you'd pointed out something that seemed off about him) but didn't seem to consider either voting him or defending him. I still do not know why you thought Rivera was a better DK than celaph, except for "Rivera tends to scumread HR" which I find pretty lame, and I don't understand why you were so reluctant to vote for celaph if you didn't want to noob-kill lfischl.

I have no idea what you're talking about me pointing something being off with celaph - I don't recall any such feeling. But it's quite simple: I wasn't happy with any of the wagons that were on offer, but the rdrivera wagon had the least reason for me to not vote it. The fact rdrivera sucked hard D1 when he was town last game and sucked hard again this D1 did indeed mean that I didn't find your case super convincing, but it also didn't remotely convince me he was going to be town just because he sucked either. He just sucked.

[ghug]

Tell us which and I won't be suspicious of you.

I'd also like to know why you think you have more reason to claim now, but that's probably something better left to daytime.

I feel like I have more reason to claim now because bozo seems to be putting together a pretty good analysis of likely scumteam figures, something which wasn't happening when you pressed me. Would you prefer I claim the role now or in the day phase?

EoN if you can, night before day if not. Can't have you dying with things unsaid.

[Donny Dude]

Tell us which and I won't be suspicious of you.

Ghug rolefishing I see.
Ghug, why do you want to know bob's discard in particular?

I want to know every discarded scum role. This isn't new.

K.

[Hellenic Riot]

Now kgray, given that you apparently *were* fairly convinced that rdrivera was scum, I have some questions of my own:

A) Why did YOU not switch back from celaph when rdrivera took the lead after you thought the wagon was dead?
B) Do you think those reasons apply to DemonRHK who had the same pattern as you, too?
C) What do you think about the other conclusions from my VCA, primarily how atrocious damo looks there?

[BobMcBob]

I'd also like to know why you think you have more reason to claim now, but that's probably something better left to daytime.

I feel like I have more reason to claim now because bozo seems to be putting together a pretty good analysis of likely scumteam figures, something which wasn't happening when you pressed me. Would you prefer I claim the role now or in the day phase?

EoN if you can, night before day if not. Can't have you dying with things unsaid.

Well I won't be around at EoN, I'm going in like 5 minutes, so I'll claim now I guess. I feel like this is going to be used against me by someone to scumread me though... I discarded mafia compulsive hider lol.