MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[e.m.c^42]

For some reason, as excited as I was for setup shenanigans during sign-up, all posts I've read so far ain't been clicking. No interest to skim, which either indicates few top posters as scum or return of apathetic spiral.

[Hellenic Riot]

Maybe I think differently but I admire players who challenge why people vote them. I appreciate that if I am going to push a player they will attack that vote at its onset, not wait til EOD to let it fester. hesitation on being pressured in my mind is the hope that pressure will drift away on its own. Bunny didnt care about being voted most of day 1. Until it suddenly mattered. And then he was very emotional about actually being pushed at all. To me this shows he just wanted everyone to forget about him, even though he had almost 500 posts day 1.

if someone votes me I dont always care. i dont always get annoyed. In fact I am often blind to scum voting me because I only get triggered by certain players voting me. I was annoyed maniac voted me because it just felt lame. ghug voting me he at least had reasons but it was still alot of the same crap he does to me every game. Bona voting me was frustrating because he implied I was just expendable which I dont think i am regardless of role. As town I always wanna die by NK, never by day elim. Anyone who knows me knows that my entire effort in mafia is to eat the nk and exit gracefully.

I push players and I do try to irk them. I want reactions. I do want to be challenged. But you notice I dont vote people and call them worthless. I vote them because I strongly feel they really gotta go. In the case of Bunny I was actively working to get him or rdrivera killed at EOD.

I waivered on Rivera because of how many people I distrusted were leaping onto him. Bunny I still think can definetely be lying about it all because its pretty ridiculous to wait until 3 minutes are left to then act like pressure is unexpected. Pressure had been of and on for bunny all day, and he acted as if he was a victim. HR mostly bailed him out on this issue by also claiming a scum role

Graceful is indeed the first word that comes to mind when I think of you

[brainbomb]

I do think that celaph is town and that his wagon came out of absolutely nothing. The only player who it felt like was saved day 1 was bunny. Nobody else really put much effort into fighting back on rivera, ifischl or celaph elims. Bunny was the most difficult elim to force through and the people who helped prevent that elim the most were the same people who jumped onto it to bolster it.

HR wasnt even talking about bunny when the bunny wagon was in the lead, he was rambling about not being sure if rivera was a good choice and some thing about ifischl being super new.

[brainbomb]

Maybe I think differently but I admire players who challenge why people vote them. I appreciate that if I am going to push a player they will attack that vote at its onset, not wait til EOD to let it fester. hesitation on being pressured in my mind is the hope that pressure will drift away on its own. Bunny didnt care about being voted most of day 1. Until it suddenly mattered. And then he was very emotional about actually being pushed at all. To me this shows he just wanted everyone to forget about him, even though he had almost 500 posts day 1.

if someone votes me I dont always care. i dont always get annoyed. In fact I am often blind to scum voting me because I only get triggered by certain players voting me. I was annoyed maniac voted me because it just felt lame. ghug voting me he at least had reasons but it was still alot of the same crap he does to me every game. Bona voting me was frustrating because he implied I was just expendable which I dont think i am regardless of role. As town I always wanna die by NK, never by day elim. Anyone who knows me knows that my entire effort in mafia is to eat the nk and exit gracefully.

I push players and I do try to irk them. I want reactions. I do want to be challenged. But you notice I dont vote people and call them worthless. I vote them because I strongly feel they really gotta go. In the case of Bunny I was actively working to get him or rdrivera killed at EOD.

I waivered on Rivera because of how many people I distrusted were leaping onto him. Bunny I still think can definetely be lying about it all because its pretty ridiculous to wait until 3 minutes are left to then act like pressure is unexpected. Pressure had been of and on for bunny all day, and he acted as if he was a victim. HR mostly bailed him out on this issue by also claiming a scum role

Graceful is indeed the first word that comes to mind when I think of you

exiting a game gracefully and catching a few scum, dying for having great reads. Thats really all I ask for. I dont wanna carry town but I would love to die because I got it right

[brainbomb]

I mean yea I dont think I ever actually am graceful or well put together. But the goal remains the same. even if the execution of it is botched regularly

[brainbomb]

In a world where Iflischl, Bunny, Rivera, and Celaph are all town, then scum had nobody up for grabs, and the scumteam is definetely emc, ezio, jasnah, vecna, and bozo types who just did nothing really on day 1.

im not putting damo on that list yet

[kgray]

When I voted Rdrivera, celaph had zero votes. I then asked for a case on celaph because I'd seen nothing of the sort in advance of the flashwagon forming there. Ironically the only person who gave any sort of reasonable point there was Bona; but I didn't really feel that celaph was that different to normal and I also feel that he's been a pretty decent (though not very scary, sorry ghug) player who would be more useful to keep around than lfischl - I didn't like either option though.

As I said at the time, I didn't really disagree with the case on rdrivera and the fact he was acting the same as last game wasn't actually towntell, because in both d1's he essentially did nothing and made no reads. I didn't like going after him based solely on that because that's what I did last game - And I was wrong. But when it came to a point where there were three options (rdrivera, lfischl, and Bunny) then I absolutely preferred rdrivera to the other two. And I still preferred him to celaph, too.

Assuming you also think Rivera is a decent player, why did you prefer Rivera to celaph if you were null on both of them? Why is celaph more useful to keep around than lfischl, but Rivera isn't?

And none of this explains your (fake, imo) outrage that people weren't trying to prevent a tie when you stayed away from the top two wagons for the ten minutes before EOD.

Rdrivera has an unfortunate habit of scumreading me in almost every single game we play, so I don't especially subscribe to that first point

It's quite simple: I was not concerned about there being a possibility of a tie even when the vote was tied by ghug, because it only took one person to break it. When Bona started pulling his shit that equation drastically changed, so I started actively trying to prevent it - As did ghug. I really do not understand why nobody else was sparked into action by that, especially as every single player except for Bozo/Vecna/Macca/rdrivera and apparently Bob was present (And Bob turned up immediately afterward). Two people out of 16 is a pretty pathetic level of engagement and I really can't understand why so many people were happy to coast to a tie there

I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that people were "happy to coast to a tie." I wasn't happy with a tie, but I didn't think that jumping my vote around was going to help. I certainly wasn't a experiencing a "coasting" feeling, and I doubt many people were.

It's also pretty scummy that the only concrete reason you can give for preferring Rivera over celaph (especially in the context of you'd prefer lfischl over celaph, but not lfischl over Rivera) is that Rivera has a habit of scumreading you.

[Hellenic Riot]

I really don't see how my mentioning of discarding the Mafia LRC remotely took the pressure off Bunny there. For most of the day I didn't really look favourably upon outing discards because I felt it just helped scum figure out who the strong PR's are likely to be and that all those Mafia Goon discard claims really told us absolutely fuck all of use. That changed after Bunny's claim because combined with Bozo's it meant we could rule out a significant number of unique Mafia roles: Godfather, Roleblocker, and Loud Role Cop. Given I find it highly unlikely anyone is willingly to pick the Mafia Compulsive Hider, we now had some good information that the (mafia) scumteam is probably pretty small and certainly pretty powerless - Or damo is right and multiple people are actually the role they discarded. Bunny's claim also meant that anyone who got RB'd would've known it was by town (though the JOAT death invalidates that).

[Hellenic Riot]

Assuming you also think Rivera is a decent player, why did you prefer Rivera to celaph if you were null on both of them? Why is celaph more useful to keep around than lfischl, but Rivera isn't?

And none of this explains your (fake, imo) outrage that people weren't trying to prevent a tie when you stayed away from the top two wagons for the ten minutes before EOD.

Rdrivera has an unfortunate habit of scumreading me in almost every single game we play, so I don't especially subscribe to that first point

It's quite simple: I was not concerned about there being a possibility of a tie even when the vote was tied by ghug, because it only took one person to break it. When Bona started pulling his shit that equation drastically changed, so I started actively trying to prevent it - As did ghug. I really do not understand why nobody else was sparked into action by that, especially as every single player except for Bozo/Vecna/Macca/rdrivera and apparently Bob was present (And Bob turned up immediately afterward). Two people out of 16 is a pretty pathetic level of engagement and I really can't understand why so many people were happy to coast to a tie there

I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that people were "happy to coast to a tie." I wasn't happy with a tie, but I didn't think that jumping my vote around was going to help. I certainly wasn't a experiencing a "coasting" feeling, and I doubt many people were.

It's also pretty scummy that the only concrete reason you can give for preferring Rivera over celaph (especially in the context of you'd prefer lfischl over celaph, but not lfischl over Rivera) is that Rivera has a habit of scumreading you.

If I have the choice between killing two people who I neither scumread nor townread then I am always going to pick the one who I expect to be wrong more. I don't really care if you think that's scummy; that's just how I roll

[kgray]

I really don't see how my mentioning of discarding the Mafia LRC remotely took the pressure off Bunny there. For most of the day I didn't really look favourably upon outing discards because I felt it just helped scum figure out who the strong PR's are likely to be and that all those Mafia Goon discard claims really told us absolutely fuck all of use. That changed after Bunny's claim because combined with Bozo's it meant we could rule out a significant number of unique Mafia roles: Godfather, Roleblocker, and Loud Role Cop. Given I find it highly unlikely anyone is willingly to pick the Mafia Compulsive Hider, we now had some good information that the (mafia) scumteam is probably pretty small and certainly pretty powerless - Or damo is right and multiple people are actually the role they discarded. Bunny's claim also meant that anyone who got RB'd would've known it was by town (though the JOAT death invalidates that).

So you had an opinion on whether or not claiming discards is helpful to town, but you chose not to share it when that topic was a large part of the discussion? Doesn't feel like town!HR to me.

[Hellenic Riot]

As for coasting: While I believe some people have the poker face to wait it out given the initial Bona switch was with about 2 minutes left, I really struggle to believe that 14 people still had that poker calm when Bona pulled his second switch and I find it pretty amazing that literally nobody panic-switched there.

[ghug]

Why is this a townslip? He didn't make any assumptions about whether or not scum knew each others' roles.

"gambling that GF wasn't dealt" implies a lack of knowledge of whether it is a role in play.

This post, however did not mention anything about strategies of claiming a scumbuddy's role, and if it was not dealt to them there was still a chance that it wasn't in play that bozo could bet on.

Tinfoil time: perhaps bozo, knowing that GF is a strong mafia role that many people would choose, decided to attempt to bait out the GF into a discard CC.

But I think I'll leave that in tinfoil land, it's a very high risk play that has a rather low chance of working out for benefit, not something I'd expect in the slightest.

It's interesting to me that Bunny probably could have read this as a scumslip as well—gambling the GF wasn't dealt could easily imply he knew it wasn't in play—but he immediately jumped to townslip.

[Hellenic Riot]

I really don't see how my mentioning of discarding the Mafia LRC remotely took the pressure off Bunny there. For most of the day I didn't really look favourably upon outing discards because I felt it just helped scum figure out who the strong PR's are likely to be and that all those Mafia Goon discard claims really told us absolutely fuck all of use. That changed after Bunny's claim because combined with Bozo's it meant we could rule out a significant number of unique Mafia roles: Godfather, Roleblocker, and Loud Role Cop. Given I find it highly unlikely anyone is willingly to pick the Mafia Compulsive Hider, we now had some good information that the (mafia) scumteam is probably pretty small and certainly pretty powerless - Or damo is right and multiple people are actually the role they discarded. Bunny's claim also meant that anyone who got RB'd would've known it was by town (though the JOAT death invalidates that).

So you had an opinion on whether or not claiming discards is helpful to town, but you chose not to share it when that topic was a large part of the discussion? Doesn't feel like town!HR to me.

It had already begun, there was no point discussing it further by that point. Mech-talk is just a cheap & easy way to score townpoints without adding anything to the discussion.

[kgray]

Rdrivera has an unfortunate habit of scumreading me in almost every single game we play, so I don't especially subscribe to that first point

It's quite simple: I was not concerned about there being a possibility of a tie even when the vote was tied by ghug, because it only took one person to break it. When Bona started pulling his shit that equation drastically changed, so I started actively trying to prevent it - As did ghug. I really do not understand why nobody else was sparked into action by that, especially as every single player except for Bozo/Vecna/Macca/rdrivera and apparently Bob was present (And Bob turned up immediately afterward). Two people out of 16 is a pretty pathetic level of engagement and I really can't understand why so many people were happy to coast to a tie there

I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that people were "happy to coast to a tie." I wasn't happy with a tie, but I didn't think that jumping my vote around was going to help. I certainly wasn't a experiencing a "coasting" feeling, and I doubt many people were.

It's also pretty scummy that the only concrete reason you can give for preferring Rivera over celaph (especially in the context of you'd prefer lfischl over celaph, but not lfischl over Rivera) is that Rivera has a habit of scumreading you.

If I have the choice between killing two people who I neither scumread nor townread then I am always going to pick the one who I expect to be wrong more. I don't really care if you think that's scummy; that's just how I roll

You literally said in this game that celaph was on the wrong side of most of the votes last game. You're saying now that Rivera tends to scumread you. Those are not the same thing, and it does not imply that you believe Rivera is wrong more often than celaph.

[Hellenic Riot]

I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that people were "happy to coast to a tie." I wasn't happy with a tie, but I didn't think that jumping my vote around was going to help. I certainly wasn't a experiencing a "coasting" feeling, and I doubt many people were.

It's also pretty scummy that the only concrete reason you can give for preferring Rivera over celaph (especially in the context of you'd prefer lfischl over celaph, but not lfischl over Rivera) is that Rivera has a habit of scumreading you.

If I have the choice between killing two people who I neither scumread nor townread then I am always going to pick the one who I expect to be wrong more. I don't really care if you think that's scummy; that's just how I roll

You literally said in this game that celaph was on the wrong side of most of the votes last game. You're saying now that Rivera tends to scumread you. Those are not the same thing, and it does not imply that you believe Rivera is wrong more often than celaph.

Being wrong about me is rather more important in every new game when the only person I know is town is myself

[Hellenic Riot]

I really don't see how my mentioning of discarding the Mafia LRC remotely took the pressure off Bunny there. For most of the day I didn't really look favourably upon outing discards because I felt it just helped scum figure out who the strong PR's are likely to be and that all those Mafia Goon discard claims really told us absolutely fuck all of use. That changed after Bunny's claim because combined with Bozo's it meant we could rule out a significant number of unique Mafia roles: Godfather, Roleblocker, and Loud Role Cop. Given I find it highly unlikely anyone is willingly to pick the Mafia Compulsive Hider, we now had some good information that the (mafia) scumteam is probably pretty small and certainly pretty powerless - Or damo is right and multiple people are actually the role they discarded. Bunny's claim also meant that anyone who got RB'd would've known it was by town (though the JOAT death invalidates that).

So you had an opinion on whether or not claiming discards is helpful to town, but you chose not to share it when that topic was a large part of the discussion? Doesn't feel like town!HR to me.

It had already begun, there was no point discussing it further by that point. Mech-talk is just a cheap & easy way to score townpoints without adding anything to the discussion.

Furthermore I think this is a super disingenuous take given that you opposed the discard outing initially but then moved on and didn't comment at all when it was going on later

[kgray]

As for coasting: While I believe some people have the poker face to wait it out given the initial Bona switch was with about 2 minutes left, I really struggle to believe that 14 people still had that poker calm when Bona pulled his second switch and I find it pretty amazing that literally nobody panic-switched there.

Well in addition to some people actually having preferences on who dies, and probably hoping that their preferred wagon was the kill and therefore being hesitant to switch, maybe some people panic-froze. I find it pretty amazing that you're trying to shade like 14 people here. It makes it look like you're trying to make yourself look good rather than trying to find scummy people.

[kgray]

I really don't see how my mentioning of discarding the Mafia LRC remotely took the pressure off Bunny there. For most of the day I didn't really look favourably upon outing discards because I felt it just helped scum figure out who the strong PR's are likely to be and that all those Mafia Goon discard claims really told us absolutely fuck all of use. That changed after Bunny's claim because combined with Bozo's it meant we could rule out a significant number of unique Mafia roles: Godfather, Roleblocker, and Loud Role Cop. Given I find it highly unlikely anyone is willingly to pick the Mafia Compulsive Hider, we now had some good information that the (mafia) scumteam is probably pretty small and certainly pretty powerless - Or damo is right and multiple people are actually the role they discarded. Bunny's claim also meant that anyone who got RB'd would've known it was by town (though the JOAT death invalidates that).

So you had an opinion on whether or not claiming discards is helpful to town, but you chose not to share it when that topic was a large part of the discussion? Doesn't feel like town!HR to me.

It had already begun, there was no point discussing it further by that point. Mech-talk is just a cheap & easy way to score townpoints without adding anything to the discussion.

Nah I don't believe this. I think you'd push for whatever side you think is right. The way you're talking about this now makes it seem like you were more interested in how you look than town doing the right thing. Very scummy

[Hellenic Riot]

As for coasting: While I believe some people have the poker face to wait it out given the initial Bona switch was with about 2 minutes left, I really struggle to believe that 14 people still had that poker calm when Bona pulled his second switch and I find it pretty amazing that literally nobody panic-switched there.

Well in addition to some people actually having preferences on who dies, and probably hoping that their preferred wagon was the kill and therefore being hesitant to switch, maybe some people panic-froze. I find it pretty amazing that you're trying to shade like 14 people here. It makes it look like you're trying to make yourself look good rather than trying to find scummy people.

Last night I was angry, today I am not. But I would love to hear the thoughts of more people than the couple so far who have commented on just why they didn't switch there, because I don't believe for a second that all 14 of them felt strongly about who died and I suspect that there's a few people who had ulterior motives for it - Either because they were protecting someone (which would have to be celaph) or because they were really hoping for a tie (which is an excuse I will buy from brain and Ezio and probably not from anyone else).

[kgray]

So you had an opinion on whether or not claiming discards is helpful to town, but you chose not to share it when that topic was a large part of the discussion? Doesn't feel like town!HR to me.

It had already begun, there was no point discussing it further by that point. Mech-talk is just a cheap & easy way to score townpoints without adding anything to the discussion.

Furthermore I think this is a super disingenuous take given that you opposed the discard outing initially but then moved on and didn't comment at all when it was going on later

I have been very upfront about not having an opinion on whether sharing or not sharing is better for town. If more people that I trust (would have included you, D1) had supported it, I would probably have outed. But I've never claimed to know which is mechanically better. You know I don't care about mechanics.