MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BobMcBob]

For example, this post:

The most significant thing to have happened so far (and by a wide marģin) is Bozo claiming to have discarded Mafia GF.

If he is telling the truth he probably either has a valuable town role, a super valuable alien role or he fancied SK. Almost certainly not a weaker Mafia role.

He could be lying and gambling that GF wasn't dealt but with a probability of only 26/68 this is an unlikely Bozo type gambit.

I think the most likely reason for Bozo to claim to have discarded Mafia GF is that he actually RETAINED Mafia GF.

##vote Bozo

now looks like a big townslip. And in a way that is hard to fake.

I don't believe in townslips. If I did this wouldn't be one. What exactly was your reasoning here?

[BobMcBob]

Am I wrong in my assumption that usually scum don't know each other's actual roles until they can talk in scumchat? Because if not, then Maniac is really sus here.

From memory I believe (having played a statistically improbable percentage of scum games) that scum normally know their teammates' roles. I'm convinced this was at least the case in M50 and 51.

[BobMcBob]

For example, this post:


now looks like a big townslip. And in a way that is hard to fake.

Why is this a townslip? He didn't make any assumptions about whether or not scum knew each others' roles.

"gambling that GF wasn't dealt" implies a lack of knowledge of whether it is a role in play.

This post, however did not mention anything about strategies of claiming a scumbuddy's role, and if it was not dealt to them there was still a chance that it wasn't in play that bozo could bet on.

Tinfoil time: perhaps bozo, knowing that GF is a strong mafia role that many people would choose, decided to attempt to bait out the GF into a discard CC.

But I think I'll leave that in tinfoil land, it's a very high risk play that has a rather low chance of working out for benefit, not something I'd expect in the slightest.

[BobMcBob]

Ezio is a 180 from bona
On Macca, the vote for bunny just seems based off one thing, I would like to see more of a case.
I do have a townread on bob based off posts.
Bozo seems to be questioning people now and I hope to see more like his last post. Lfischl voting no kill seems odd from an unvote. Why did he do that?

lfischl seems really weird to me. His actions are lining up with his scum actions from another game too, so I think he might be scum with macca.

Why with macca in particular? Was there any reason you paired these two?

[DemonRHK]

I don;t like Hr's posts tonight. First the concern about why no one did anything at eod and then relief at the fact a particular mafia role is not a killing role. That just seems weird to me, because a pr was lost and it is a valuable one if the mafia has that role among them.

Second half of this post is odd. Are you referring to when HR restated my note that the JOAT in this setup doesn’t get a big shot and someone else didn’t get what I meant?

[Donny Dude]

I don;t like Hr's posts tonight. First the concern about why no one did anything at eod and then relief at the fact a particular mafia role is not a killing role. That just seems weird to me, because a pr was lost and it is a valuable one if the mafia has that role among them.

Second half of this post is odd. Are you referring to when HR restated my note that the JOAT in this setup doesn’t get a big shot and someone else didn’t get what I meant?

What do you make of Hr's post about lack of action?
Yes, but is is bad that it is the joat.
That someone else was me I am pretty sure Demon.
K, I am taking that post out of context too much.

[BobMcBob]

Why did you call me out in particular? Why not Bunny or ghug or Bob? And why are you dismissing brain?

B/c I've played with bb before. He's the most anti town player I've ever had the pleasure of being in a game with. His statement of "town wins when he's not town" earlier this game was roughly half accurate. I'd say the inverse is more true though
"town loses when he's town".

I called you out in particular b/c you're the only one who's made anything related to reasonable statements this phase.

this is total fuckin bullshit. you can point to maybe one game out of 50+ where I exclusively lost a game for town

Well I can definitely think of one where you forgot to vote as vig and completely ruined our chances at winning, or something along those lines.

[BobMcBob]

unless hes outing vecna or fake outing vecna I dunno what to say about that but if killing ifischl kills vecna id rather not kill ifischl today

What's up with Vecna? You're interested in keeping them, then why?

I think it's reasonable to want Vecna alive. Vecna is pretty strong when town, and people say he's not amazing at hiding as scum from memory. I'd also like to keep him around past his inactivity phase at the moment.

[BobMcBob]

This is actually quite interesting, and it goes with his rather strange (at least to me) opening. I think I'll join you

##VOTE bozo

@Damo - maybe bozo doesn’t have to gamble on the Mafia GF not being dealt. If he has a mafia role and know someone else has picked Mafia GF.

I’m heavily town reading Damo for not realising mafia bozo would know who his scum mates are.

Would he know their roles?

This almost seems forced. May well not be but he could easily be playing into the "townslip" here, it would be very easy to do regardless of alignment. I give him absolutely no townie points for this, and I question anybody who does.

[rdrivera2005]

I want people to explain why ghug & I were the only people trying to prevent a tie there. Everyone who was present had better come up with a good reason for sitting back and letting Bona pull that shit - The only reason it was close is because none of the rest of you shifted

This is a lot of righteous indignation coming from someone who was on a vanity Rivera wagon with one minute to go, especially considering you didn't even strongly scumread Rivera.

That's a good point. I was re-reading EOD and HR vote on me looked really weird as we never interacted, I was offline and was obviously softing a PR. Not a vote I expect from HR closer to EOD.

[BobMcBob]

Btw, while on page 79 I will say lfischl looked pretty bad at that point, voting him was very reasonable, and more natural than rdr.

[rdrivera2005]

Bona is #1 on my shit list for sure, whether or not he's a town role, he's by far the single greatest impediment to town getting anything of use done so far. Take out the garbage Bona

Also, I strongly disagree with this take (which Bunny also had). Yeah, it wasn't good. It was frustrating and could have been horrible. He should absolutely not do it again. But it worked out okay, and focusing on blaming him for this isn't productive.

And I disagree with your take. Bona play have been extremely anti-town and he refuses to listen or acknowledge this is a team game (if he is town) and I fully understand Bunny indignation.

[rdrivera2005]

Why do you think you were a wagon?

Because I made very little effort D1 and some of the effort I tried was useless (the Macca thing).

I confess that the feeling I will be NKed early again after this discard claim thing is also making me avoid dispending too much energy on D1.

Huh. I was not under the impression you put any effort at all into your Macca read

I did ISOed they. They, Maniac, Demon and the guy who were killed (hard to write). I told it was a low effort.

[BobMcBob]

Why are so few people claiming alien discards

Two of us haven't *not* claimed alien discards.

Yeah, but that's still a lot of unknowns.

Perhaps because mafia has a non-unique goon role which is easier to claim as a discard, perhaps because very few aliens were dealt, perhaps because the alien roles confirm that they are in the game more easily, perhaps because the kind of people who picked alien were less predisposed to revealing their discards, perhaps people who didn't want to claim discards just happened to get aliens.

If I had to guess I'd say one of the first two is most likely, probably the second. Not sure that means anything for us honestly, maybe the alien team is stacked though lol.

[BobMcBob]

Bona is #1 on my shit list for sure, whether or not he's a town role, he's by far the single greatest impediment to town getting anything of use done so far. Take out the garbage Bona

Also, I strongly disagree with this take (which Bunny also had). Yeah, it wasn't good. It was frustrating and could have been horrible. He should absolutely not do it again. But it worked out okay, and focusing on blaming him for this isn't productive.

And I disagree with your take. Bona play have been extremely anti-town and he refuses to listen or acknowledge this is a team game (if he is town) and I fully understand Bunny indignation.

We've already wasted enough time arguing with bona about voting, arguing and getting mad further is not a particularly productive course of action in my opinion.

[BobMcBob]

•According the scoresheet I have an avg of 2.3

•overall I have the 11th best winrate on webdip mafia

•This data is updated by Squiggs but my score is based on 32 games ive been in on webdip

•My town score on webdip is 5.19 which ranks me as the 20th strongest overall town player on webdip. Ezio ranks only 25th.

Yo you're really going out trying to prove you're better than Ezio. Not helpful behaviour really but not scummy. Just more frustrating bb.

[rdrivera2005]

Who do you think has made reasonable statements this game?

Certainly not Ghug for starting the discard nonsense.

Certainly not Bozo for tracking the discard nonsense (although we can't get any reads on Bozo)

Certainly not brainbomb for being brainbomb.

Well a bunch of people made statements I've agreed with, so unless you're talking about some unique points I've made, then those people have also been reasonable. Bob has consistently been on the same page as me, Donny made some good points, Bunny had a few moments here and there. I am sure I could pull at least one reasonable post from almost everybody playing, and more for people who've been contributing more. So singling me out is weird.

My thoughts exactly lol, thank you kgray.

Are you trying to impersonate me?

[BobMcBob]

Brain, Can I ask why you jumped topics to winrate?

ezio attacked my character and said I was the most anti town player on here. Which is a bogus claim that is not backed up by any statistical category we have anywhere. In every category I outrank him in skills, ive been to champs three times

K, Why does this bug you so much though?

Everything bugs bb this game, and in others I've played with him iirc. This is completely natural from him I think.

[BobMcBob]

Well a bunch of people made statements I've agreed with, so unless you're talking about some unique points I've made, then those people have also been reasonable. Bob has consistently been on the same page as me, Donny made some good points, Bunny had a few moments here and there. I am sure I could pull at least one reasonable post from almost everybody playing, and more for people who've been contributing more. So singling me out is weird.

My thoughts exactly lol, thank you kgray.

Are you trying to impersonate me?

No, you're impersonating me. I did it first. (Only in the context of this game, but let's ignore that). Anyway, I'd previously said literally the exact same thing in catchup replies. And kgray generally has takes I agree with so far. We should all be friends, except that I don't trust you yet.

[Hellenic Riot]

I want people to explain why ghug & I were the only people trying to prevent a tie there. Everyone who was present had better come up with a good reason for sitting back and letting Bona pull that shit - The only reason it was close is because none of the rest of you shifted

This is a lot of righteous indignation coming from someone who was on a vanity Rivera wagon with one minute to go, especially considering you didn't even strongly scumread Rivera.

That's a good point. I was re-reading EOD and HR vote on me looked really weird as we never interacted, I was offline and was obviously softing a PR. Not a vote I expect from HR closer to EOD.

A) I have no idea how or where you were softing a PR
B) Softing a PR in a setup like this is such a massively wide open goal that I couldn't care less if someone does it
C) I was on you because I didn't like either the Fisch or Bunny wagons and preferred you