MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

When you say you are happy I wasn't around to tie it.

By saying you are happy I didn't do something, doesn't that mean you prefer what happened without my (potential) interference? What else could that possibly mean?

What did you mean?

No kill is a worse result since we get no information from town. We only get the info that scum give us by their choice of kill and subsequent flip.

Are you fucking kidding me?

This guy had a scan, a doctor save, and a roleblock. Scum get to kill tonight anyways. You're just saying "well, I sure am glad we have information from a whole bunch of bullshit d1 at the cost of a PR. At least we got the ball rolling killing our PR's so scum don't have to".

I understand in the dark saying information is sometimes more valuable and why most people argue that d1 kills are good. Their arguments fall apart once it's certain you are killing town, and even moreso once you're killing town PR.

If the choice is joat or no kill, no kill has it's bonuses, but lfischl didn't claim. He didn't crumb. The option presented to us was a scummy lurker or a no kill. We made the best decision given the information available, and it's his own fault for not claiming.

[celaph]

What specifically about ghug's and HR's votes makes them look good?

The only scum I've seen the past two games move close to deadlines in TvT situations is Jamie who did it both D1 M63 and D2 M62. In the case of ghug specifically, I think it also shows more thought and concern than I was seeing earlier in the day. He cared about the outcome of that vote in a way that I think scum ghug was less likely to do.

What do you mean, ghug cared about the outcome of the vote? You think he had a strong preference of who was killed?

Less who was killed and more that someone died. My gut is that scum ghug is happy to sit on my wagon. To answer @ezio's follow up question: It requires boldness and confidence to put your name out there at the end of the vote. He risks looking bad until I flip. You've played in different games than me, but the scum I've played with haven't tended to be that bold.

Slightly unrelated, I would like to add Bona to this list of voting people making them look good. I intentionally left him off originally because I was taken aback by his change in tone this night, but on second thought I think the town motivations for doing so are just as strong, if not stronger, than the scum ones.

[Ezio]

No kill is a worse result since we get no information from town. We only get the info that scum give us by their choice of kill and subsequent flip.

Are you fucking kidding me?

This guy had a scan, a doctor save, and a roleblock. Scum get to kill tonight anyways. You're just saying "well, I sure am glad we have information from a whole bunch of bullshit d1 at the cost of a PR. At least we got the ball rolling killing our PR's so scum don't have to".

I understand in the dark saying information is sometimes more valuable and why most people argue that d1 kills are good. Their arguments fall apart once it's certain you are killing town, and even moreso once you're killing town PR.

If the choice is joat or no kill, no kill has it's bonuses, but lfischl didn't claim. He didn't crumb. The option presented to us was a scummy lurker or a no kill. We made the best decision given the information available, and it's his own fault for not claiming.

And this circumstance was literally joat or no kill. We have perfect information looking back. If I swap over, we get no flip, but our joat is alive.

Why were/are(?) you happy I didn't?

[celaph]

id be surprised if celaph was scum.
not enough to eat a hat but maybe a shoe

Why do you town read me so much?

[Bonatogether]

Are you fucking kidding me?

This guy had a scan, a doctor save, and a roleblock. Scum get to kill tonight anyways. You're just saying "well, I sure am glad we have information from a whole bunch of bullshit d1 at the cost of a PR. At least we got the ball rolling killing our PR's so scum don't have to".

I understand in the dark saying information is sometimes more valuable and why most people argue that d1 kills are good. Their arguments fall apart once it's certain you are killing town, and even moreso once you're killing town PR.

If the choice is joat or no kill, no kill has it's bonuses, but lfischl didn't claim. He didn't crumb. The option presented to us was a scummy lurker or a no kill. We made the best decision given the information available, and it's his own fault for not claiming.

And this circumstance was literally joat or no kill. We have perfect information looking back. If I swap over, we get no flip, but our joat is alive.

Why were/are(?) you happy I didn't?

But we didn't know it was joat or no kill. All everyone could see was lurking scummy-looking person, so the options were lurking scummy-looking person or no kill. We made the best decision with the information we had.

[ghug]

ghug progression onto bunny was also bad. His only reason for making bunny kead wagon was to force a claim which for some reason ghug insta believed without even hearing what role bunny was claiming hard. Saying he tossed mafia role blocker was dnough for ghug to just accept it as totally likely and not sus at all

I wanted him to tell us what he discarded and I saw an opportunity. I didn't particularly want him killed.

Do you think I'd do that to a teammate?

[ghug]

the other dead giveaway is emc not even speculating on my align or any of my posts

Brainbomb can be insightful occasionally

[ghug]

When you say you are happy I wasn't around to tie it.

By saying you are happy I didn't do something, doesn't that mean you prefer what happened without my (potential) interference? What else could that possibly mean?

What did you mean?

No kill is a worse result since we get no information from town. We only get the info that scum give us by their choice of kill and subsequent flip.

Are you fucking kidding me?

This guy had a scan, a doctor save, and a roleblock. Scum get to kill tonight anyways. You're just saying "well, I sure am glad we have information from a whole bunch of bullshit d1 at the cost of a PR. At least we got the ball rolling killing our PR's so scum don't have to".

I understand in the dark saying information is sometimes more valuable and why most people argue that d1 kills are good. Their arguments fall apart once it's certain you are killing town, and even moreso once you're killing town PR.

Lol I forgot how much you piss me off

[ghug]

The only scum I've seen the past two games move close to deadlines in TvT situations is Jamie who did it both D1 M63 and D2 M62. In the case of ghug specifically, I think it also shows more thought and concern than I was seeing earlier in the day. He cared about the outcome of that vote in a way that I think scum ghug was less likely to do.

What do you mean, ghug cared about the outcome of the vote? You think he had a strong preference of who was killed?

Less who was killed and more that someone died. My gut is that scum ghug is happy to sit on my wagon. To answer @ezio's follow up question: It requires boldness and confidence to put your name out there at the end of the vote. He risks looking bad until I flip. You've played in different games than me, but the scum I've played with haven't tended to be that bold.

Slightly unrelated, I would like to add Bona to this list of voting people making them look good. I intentionally left him off originally because I was taken aback by his change in tone this night, but on second thought I think the town motivations for doing so are just as strong, if not stronger, than the scum ones.

Scum ghug prevented Maniac from tying at the last second a few games ago, to be fair, though that was because I wanted to kill a townie and set up a Maniac kill.

[DemonRHK]

any bona scum flip probably exonerates celaph based on how bona shifted around.

Not true, they may be on different scumteams.

If celaph is town. Can you learn anything? What if RDR is town instead ?

I think that ghug and HR look decent for their EoD votes. HR slightly less because his vote was to tie it, but I believe him when he says that his intention was otherwise.

I want to hear more from the people who joined either wagon late and had no comments on them earlier. Why did Damo, Ezio, Maniac, and Jasnah end up voting for the people that they did?

What specifically about ghug's and HR's votes makes them look good?

I'll give you a hint why cel thinks they're good votes: They were not on cel.

Ezio's anger reeeks on monday morning quarterback. Looking back with all the info is one thing but in the moment. You don't get to be indignant about a fucking wagon YOU YOURSELF WERE ON.

[Donny Dude]

Which time lol?

I voted Ezio to tie it (with some time left) because I was happy with either of you and I wanted someone to break a tie.
My final two votes were attempts to break the ties.

Now my ghug scumdar is going off.

What about this don't you like?

I think it is about the ties, which I believe for the last two votes which lines up with vc. But moving off onto ezio for ties and having both wagons voted for feels like ghug flippity floppy he does as scum. Although thinking about if it was his scum partner he probably makes more of an effort to save celaph beforehand.
But there is a progression in iso from minute 15 left where he goes celaph then lfi but then in reply to Hr say a very simple does not seem as smart, and that feels like shading all the celaph voters while then moving to ezio next post while claiming celaph scared him as scum. That rubs me wrong for some reason.

[Donny Dude]

I don;t like Hr's posts tonight. First the concern about why no one did anything at eod and then relief at the fact a particular mafia role is not a killing role. That just seems weird to me, because a pr was lost and it is a valuable one if the mafia has that role among them.

[Ezio]

any bona scum flip probably exonerates celaph based on how bona shifted around.

Not true, they may be on different scumteams.

I think that ghug and HR look decent for their EoD votes. HR slightly less because his vote was to tie it, but I believe him when he says that his intention was otherwise.

I want to hear more from the people who joined either wagon late and had no comments on them earlier. Why did Damo, Ezio, Maniac, and Jasnah end up voting for the people that they did?

What specifically about ghug's and HR's votes makes them look good?

I'll give you a hint why cel thinks they're good votes: They were not on cel.

Ezio's anger reeeks on monday morning quarterback. Looking back with all the info is one thing but in the moment. You don't get to be indignant about a fucking wagon YOU YOURSELF WERE ON.

I mean, I was actively trying to tie. I don't think you get to give me shit for being on a wagon when I was like 10 seconds by succeeding (if HR gets his vote in this is a tie).

My anger is that this is literally the #1 reason why I think nokill is more viable than ppl on this site think. I got pissed when someone said they're happy a pr flipped d1.

[BobMcBob]

Over on page 70-71, the entire discussion just rubbed me the wrong way. It was confusing and unproductive and I didn't like it, and not for any particular person I don't think. Although maybe it was jasnah being confusing and stubborn and everybody engaging with it in an equally confusing way.

What is your read on Jasnah Bob?

My gut has been consistently saying obnoxious town. Maybe I'm wrong and I probably missed half her posts but that's the way it's come off so far.

[BobMcBob]

So... Do you think it's scummy then?

You seem very surface-level this game ghug

Isn't he taking it as the exact opposite of surface level? Despite me saying soon after that I did mean it and messed up?

I'm saying he's not connecting his comment with an actual read. Also, he normally contributes more when he's catching up. He just doesn't feel solvey to me this game.

Can't say I've looked overly closely at ghug or that I know his meta, but in this situation and a few others I have got that impression. Could just be lazy, could be something else, could be scum. I can't see a reason to avoid scumhunting and making proper connections as scum in a game with two scumteams though.

[BobMcBob]

ghug has been very shallow this game using mostly snarky one liners which lack any substance

It's day 1. What else is there to do?
##Vote nolynch.

Why look it's ezio. What a delightful first post.

[BobMcBob]

I believe we are using Unvote as a stand-in to replace that.

Well ##vote Unvote? ##vote noKill #let's not be stupid and kill ppl in a potentially super broken setup where we have multiple cops/coplites.

This is dumb. We need to vote someone for a flip today instead of letting scum dictate what info we get.

Clash of the titans

[Donny Dude]

Over on page 70-71, the entire discussion just rubbed me the wrong way. It was confusing and unproductive and I didn't like it, and not for any particular person I don't think. Although maybe it was jasnah being confusing and stubborn and everybody engaging with it in an equally confusing way.

What is your read on Jasnah Bob?

My gut has been consistently saying obnoxious town. Maybe I'm wrong and I probably missed half her posts but that's the way it's come off so far.

I have a similar read too.

[BobMcBob]

I called you out in particular b/c you're the only one who's made anything related to reasonable statements this phase.

I don't believe you actually think this.

This seems odd. I like to think that out of the big posters at least I and Donny and Bunny a bit had also made some reasonable statements.

[BobMcBob]

I don't believe you actually think this.

Who do you think has made reasonable statements this game?

Certainly not Ghug for starting the discard nonsense.

Certainly not Bozo for tracking the discard nonsense (although we can't get any reads on Bozo)

Certainly not brainbomb for being brainbomb.

Well a bunch of people made statements I've agreed with, so unless you're talking about some unique points I've made, then those people have also been reasonable. Bob has consistently been on the same page as me, Donny made some good points, Bunny had a few moments here and there. I am sure I could pull at least one reasonable post from almost everybody playing, and more for people who've been contributing more. So singling me out is weird.

My thoughts exactly lol, thank you kgray.