MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

Really? So would you be willing to wager a Papa Jeff's pizza that RHK is scum?

No wagering. No wagering with new players even more so

##CALL GM this isn't my job to police this. I merely alert you now.

@Bunny: Thank you for tattling on Brainbomb.

@Brainbomb: Pizza bets with other players cause consternation and you should avoid them, please. Gifting Pizza to the GM, on the other hand, is permitted.

[BunnyGo]

I don't follow this at all...

Which part?

I mean, all of it. I still don't know what Bunny was doing - jumping on Maniac's bad assumption for a fake townslip? Scumslipping by accepting Maniac's premise that scum know each other's roles? Town who just didn't think about it?

But I don't see how Bunny would be trying to get scum to claim they discarded their teammates' unique roles. What benefit does that give them? If bozo is non-GF mafia who knows there's a GF, and claims he discards GF, then if the GF flips bozo is dead next. I guess in typing that out I can see why you think Bunny would do that, but it seems unlikely to me it'd ever happen.

In all honesty: Bunny was tired.

[BunnyGo]

I don't follow this at all...

Which part?

I mean, all of it. I still don't know what Bunny was doing - jumping on Maniac's bad assumption for a fake townslip? Scumslipping by accepting Maniac's premise that scum know each other's roles? Town who just didn't think about it?

But I don't see how Bunny would be trying to get scum to claim they discarded their teammates' unique roles. What benefit does that give them? If bozo is non-GF mafia who knows there's a GF, and claims he discards GF, then if the GF flips bozo is dead next. I guess in typing that out I can see why you think Bunny would do that, but it seems unlikely to me it'd ever happen.

But I think there's something meaty here now with the GM's response.

[kgray]

I called you out in particular b/c you're the only one who's made anything related to reasonable statements this phase.

I don't believe you actually think this.

Who do you think has made reasonable statements this game?

Certainly not Ghug for starting the discard nonsense.

Certainly not Bozo for tracking the discard nonsense (although we can't get any reads on Bozo)

Certainly not brainbomb for being brainbomb.

Well a bunch of people made statements I've agreed with, so unless you're talking about some unique points I've made, then those people have also been reasonable. Bob has consistently been on the same page as me, Donny made some good points, Bunny had a few moments here and there. I am sure I could pull at least one reasonable post from almost everybody playing, and more for people who've been contributing more. So singling me out is weird.

[BunnyGo]

For example, this post:

The most significant thing to have happened so far (and by a wide marģin) is Bozo claiming to have discarded Mafia GF.

If he is telling the truth he probably either has a valuable town role, a super valuable alien role or he fancied SK. Almost certainly not a weaker Mafia role.

He could be lying and gambling that GF wasn't dealt but with a probability of only 26/68 this is an unlikely Bozo type gambit.

I think the most likely reason for Bozo to claim to have discarded Mafia GF is that he actually RETAINED Mafia GF.

##vote Bozo

now looks like a big townslip. And in a way that is hard to fake.

[kgray]

Well in the scumchat in M1011 when Jamie GM'd and we had mafia PRs, the roles were not included in the QT. We had to ask each other once the game started.

But I think you're right, it doesn't make a lot of sense for someone to lie about discarding a unique scum role. I don't think that bozo discarding GF says anything about bozo's alignment, though.

It’s worth asking the question.

##callGM - when scum are sent their final role PM, are they given a link to the mafia QT and does that QT included a list of all mafia and their roles?

GM NOTE

Prior to the game starting, after the end of the Role Allocation phase, any Mafia in the game would be sent a link to the Mafia QT, yes, and yes that information would be listed in the QT.

Oh shit! Am I townclear now?

[kgray]

For example, this post:

The most significant thing to have happened so far (and by a wide marģin) is Bozo claiming to have discarded Mafia GF.

If he is telling the truth he probably either has a valuable town role, a super valuable alien role or he fancied SK. Almost certainly not a weaker Mafia role.

He could be lying and gambling that GF wasn't dealt but with a probability of only 26/68 this is an unlikely Bozo type gambit.

I think the most likely reason for Bozo to claim to have discarded Mafia GF is that he actually RETAINED Mafia GF.

##vote Bozo

now looks like a big townslip. And in a way that is hard to fake.

Why is this a townslip? He didn't make any assumptions about whether or not scum knew each others' roles.

[rdrivera2005]

That's fair. I hope you're having a good vacation. I *literally* only just caught up with the thread, but I've been having a blast so far. It's a massive time commitment but good fun. I'll be back with (hopefully) original thoughts, reads, and eventually a vote starting in an hour or so.

Thanks. With the pandemics we can't travel, but I have a house close to the Beach and it's not a popular beach so we have plenty of space.

I finally caught up with the thread too.

I found that Bona exchange really annoying, as it's not how the game should been played, but I think Bona is town, I think scum Bona would have backed down after the pressure he got, but he double down. Also, to add a point, voting lurkers D1 sometimes make them magically apear...

I kinda like the Macca wagon, they didn't gave an impression and I usually tend to easily sort they as town.

I would not mind also a Maniac wagon, his total lack of content other then a weird vote on Brain isn't what I expect from him.

##vote Maniac

I do not like rdrivera pointing out he likes the Macca wagon but voting elsewhere, he could be leaving the Macca option open for a later vote. However, what concerns me most is rdrivera saying he usually sorts Macca correctly when they are town, because Macca has only been town for a full game one time, and in that game rdrivera was scum reading Macca as late as D4, when rdrivera voted for Macca.

Also, rdrivera's reason for not revealing his discard no longer hold up with most players already making a claim about their discard and the option to say only the alignment of his discard.

##VOTE rdrivera

Yep, you are right about Macca, he was town on M61 and was sus as hell. In my defense I probably confused him with Bob.

Anyway, pretty obvious I discarded a town card. To be honest, if I had a chance I would have picked Mafia, Alien or SK. I have been town for a long strike now.

[kgray]

Am I wrong in my assumption that usually scum don't know each other's actual roles until they can talk in scumchat? Because if not, then Maniac is really sus here.

[Hamilton Brian]

now looks like a big townslip. And in a way that is hard to fake.

If you don't mind, would you please explain to me how it is a big townslip. What specifically is a townslip? I just need this for my own solidification.

[Donny Dude]

Ezio is a 180 from bona
On Macca, the vote for bunny just seems based off one thing, I would like to see more of a case.
I do have a townread on bob based off posts.
Bozo seems to be questioning people now and I hope to see more like his last post. Lfischl voting no kill seems odd from an unvote. Why did he do that?

[rdrivera2005]

I would not mind also a Maniac wagon, his total lack of content other then a weird vote on Brain isn't what I expect from him.

##vote Maniac

I don't agree with this take. I find his brain vote slightly ridiculous since it was based on an assumption that I find hard to believe, and hasn't been explained or backed up with anything since. But he has made iffy votes like this as town plenty of times - Durga in M62 and Jamie in M61, off the top of my head.

The problem is not the vote based in an obviously wrong assumption but the lack of content. I don´t remember Maniac being so not present and not involved, but as my Macca take shows, I am having memory shortages, problem it´s an age problem....

[BunnyGo]

For example, this post:

The most significant thing to have happened so far (and by a wide marģin) is Bozo claiming to have discarded Mafia GF.

If he is telling the truth he probably either has a valuable town role, a super valuable alien role or he fancied SK. Almost certainly not a weaker Mafia role.

He could be lying and gambling that GF wasn't dealt but with a probability of only 26/68 this is an unlikely Bozo type gambit.

I think the most likely reason for Bozo to claim to have discarded Mafia GF is that he actually RETAINED Mafia GF.

##vote Bozo

now looks like a big townslip. And in a way that is hard to fake.

Why is this a townslip? He didn't make any assumptions about whether or not scum knew each others' roles.

"gambling that GF wasn't dealt" implies a lack of knowledge of whether it is a role in play.

[Jamiet99uk]

Mulder watched the nurse walking back down the corridor, until she turned a corner and went out of sight.

"What is it? Fox?"

"Probably nothing. Would you like me to ask the bureau to put a guard here?"

Scully shook her head.

"No, please, I'll be fine."

He nodded.

"Ok, in that case, I've got a date down at the docks. Little import - export activity I want to take a closer look into."

"Be careful."

He gently kissed her forehead.

"I will".

VOTE COUNT 1.9

lfischl (2) - ghug, kgray
DemonRHK (2) - jasnah, BobMcBob
bozotheclown (2) - damo666, Macca573
Ezio (2) - Hamilton Brian, brainbomb
No‑Kill (2) - Ezio, lfischl
brainbomb (1) - Maniac
Macca573 (1) - Donny Dude
Maniac (1) - rdrivera2005
damo666 (1) - Vecna
rdrivera2005 (1) - bozotheclown
Hamilton Brian (1) - Bonatogether

Unvoted: DemonRHK, BunnyGo
(These unvotes will count as "No Kill" at EoD if not moved).

Currently NOBODY is set to be daykilled.

Celaph, EMC, and Hellenic Riot need to cast a vote.

4 hours 45 mins remain in the day.

[BunnyGo]

Am I wrong in my assumption that usually scum don't know each other's actual roles until they can talk in scumchat? Because if not, then Maniac is really sus here.

depends on the game and GM

[Bonatogether]

Ezio is a 180 from bona
On Macca, the vote for bunny just seems based off one thing, I would like to see more of a case.
I do have a townread on bob based off posts.
Bozo seems to be questioning people now and I hope to see more like his last post. Lfischl voting no kill seems odd from an unvote. Why did he do that?

lfischl seems really weird to me. His actions are lining up with his scum actions from another game too, so I think he might be scum with macca.

[BunnyGo]

It’s worth asking the question.

##callGM - when scum are sent their final role PM, are they given a link to the mafia QT and does that QT included a list of all mafia and their roles?

GM NOTE

Prior to the game starting, after the end of the Role Allocation phase, any Mafia in the game would be sent a link to the Mafia QT, yes, and yes that information would be listed in the QT.

Oh shit! Am I townclear now?

Yes, but I'm always wary.

[kgray]

For example, this post:


now looks like a big townslip. And in a way that is hard to fake.

Why is this a townslip? He didn't make any assumptions about whether or not scum knew each others' roles.

"gambling that GF wasn't dealt" implies a lack of knowledge of whether it is a role in play.

But not knowledge about whether or not a role as dealt. Even knowing each others' roles, any given scum wouldn't know what anyone's discards were besides their own.

[ghug]

I don't really understand why you think anyone has a motivation to lie about their discard, though. Let's say the scum team(s) discuss their discards tonight... What's the benefit? Player X can now say they made Player Y's discard and Player Y can say they made Player X's discard? What has the scum team gained from such a discussion?

Not everyone is smart.

Unless you think there's a scum team full of idiots who would decide to lie for shits and giggles, that doesn't answer my question about what you think the motivation to lie is

Scum day one have a couple options given what I'm asking:
- refuse
- honestly answer a second scum role they discarded
- say they discarded their own role
- make something up

If you feel sufficiently pressured to say something, you have to pick an option, potentially workout having fully considered its implications. Best case, they lie and eventually get caught on it. More likely positive case is that we learn that some scum roles aren't in the game (any role that leaves a trace, e.g. lover, can't be claimed to have been discarded) and we can glean something from how people react. Worst case is nothing changes.

[Donny Dude]

Am I wrong in my assumption that usually scum don't know each other's actual roles until they can talk in scumchat? Because if not, then Maniac is really sus here.

Maybe, but as I recall from m60 don't the roles get posted as first post of qt so a person could open it up and check who their partners roles are?