MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

This is missing my point. You're not a good early dk target because of your playstyle last game - you're a good early dk target because you flipping gives us a lot of info on a lot of people. I'd put ghug, kgray, bunny, and maybe donny in this category, off the top of my head.

Yeah, no. We're not killing someone who's towny for "info" D1 (or ever, if I have my way).

He insisted they kill him for info last game, so it is actually his opinion.

Worcej townread him and agreed lol

Yes, I believe he believes it. But he's still wrong lmao

[BobMcBob]

macca had some decent posts but then he just stopped

Agreed. No idea where they've gone. I believe they were struggling with catchup, and I think they tend to open posts they want to reply to in separate tabs and then fire them all off one after another. Still want to see more of them soonish though.

[kgray]

I answered about Brain just above. I think is town.

I think Ghug is playing differently from last game. Not necessarily town, but also don't have scum vibes from him. I have a feeling he won't choose Mafia if he had another option, but he can be Alien or could have two Mafia cards.

Don't like both wagons, to be honest.

So who do you want to be a wagon instead?

Is this your schtick? Suggesting wagons against people for fun? Are you going to ask if I wanna get wagonned for pocketing you next?

I was asking Rivera which person he preferred as a wagon, since he didn't like the two who were leading at the time.

If you wanna get wagonned, I'm sure bona would support it since you've been active.

[ghug]

Many things, ghug, many things. He thinks your reason for voting him and staying on him was completely ridiculous and felt unfairly targeted in an unhelpful way, as he clearly said.

He was responding to my explanation of no longer scumreading him as if it was more scumreading.

I feel as though it was because he was angry you scumread him in the first place with little to no reason and that you hadn't moved your vote yet.

I had moved my vote at that point though.

[kgray]

Bot of 45:

Good luck on your dip game all. Last time we tried that the mastermind of the game got banned/left the site mid game.

Not a lot of new content here, just more retracing of points made and re-establishing existing positions.

My leading scumreads are Bob and bona. I've got a strong feeling on Bunny but I'm not certain if it's a scumread or frustration.

Back on 50.

Those are weird scumreads. Why Bob?

[BobMcBob]

I would like to know where everyone stands on claiming discards, so please fill this in:

Bonatogether: Mafia Goon
bozo: Mafia GF
brainbomb: Mafia Goon
BunnyGo: Not town
​celaph: Mafia Goon
damo: VT
DemonRHK:
Donny:
emc:
Ezio:
ghug: Mafia Goon
Hamilton:
HR:
jasnah: Mafia Lover
kgray: chooses not to answer
lfischl: Alien
Macca:
Mania​c:
rdrivera: chooses not to answer
Vecna:

Okay, I've finally caught up to this point in the thread. I can't see much harm in claiming, but not much benefit either. For now, I discarded a non-town role. I may say which later if I see a benefit.

[BobMcBob]

So who do you want to be a wagon instead?

Is this your schtick? Suggesting wagons against people for fun? Are you going to ask if I wanna get wagonned for pocketing you next?

I was asking Rivera which person he preferred as a wagon, since he didn't like the two who were leading at the time.

If you wanna get wagonned, I'm sure bona would support it since you've been active.

Oh lol I completely misread that lol. For some reason I thought it read "So do you want to be a wagon instead?" which I found very amusing.

[kgray]

Regarding the recent Bona conversations, I'm inclined to agree with the Bona town read. For one, I agree that it is really really bold for scum to take such an odd line D1. Partly because for better or worse I imagine that this D1 gets him killed if he goes late. Secondly, because I think Bona's change in style comes from a towny place. Specifically, it seems like he is emulating D1 Chaqa last game, just with a total lack of understanding of the rationale behind the actions.

Ooh but I like this one. I don't really see how it's like Chaqa though.

What do you like about this? The first part about Bona's stance not being likely to come from scum has been said before. And do you agree that Bona's change in style comes from a towny place? Since you don't see how it connects to Chaqa, which is apparently how celaph is justifying that conclusion, I'm not following what you're agreeing with here.

[ghug]

I would like to know where everyone stands on claiming discards, so please fill this in:

Bonatogether: Mafia Goon
bozo: Mafia GF
brainbomb: Mafia Goon
BunnyGo: Not town
​celaph: Mafia Goon
damo: VT
DemonRHK:
Donny:
emc:
Ezio:
ghug: Mafia Goon
Hamilton:
HR:
jasnah: Mafia Lover
kgray: chooses not to answer
lfischl: Alien
Macca:
Mania​c:
rdrivera: chooses not to answer
Vecna:

Okay, I've finally caught up to this point in the thread. I can't see much harm in claiming, but not much benefit either. For now, I discarded a non-town role. I may say which later if I see a benefit.

You should say now. There's no harm, if you're scum you'll have a chance to talk to your team once night comes, and you might die workout telling us.

[ghug]

Regarding the recent Bona conversations, I'm inclined to agree with the Bona town read. For one, I agree that it is really really bold for scum to take such an odd line D1. Partly because for better or worse I imagine that this D1 gets him killed if he goes late. Secondly, because I think Bona's change in style comes from a towny place. Specifically, it seems like he is emulating D1 Chaqa last game, just with a total lack of understanding of the rationale behind the actions.

Ooh but I like this one. I don't really see how it's like Chaqa though.

What do you like about this? The first part about Bona's stance not being likely to come from scum has been said before. And do you agree that Bona's change in style comes from a towny place? Since you don't see how it connects to Chaqa, which is apparently how celaph is justifying that conclusion, I'm not following what you're agreeing with here.

I'm not agreeing, beyond Bona's insanity making him likelier town, which as you note isn't a unique thought. I just think it demonstrates a real thought process.

[BobMcBob]

I would like to know where everyone stands on claiming discards, so please fill this in:

Bonatogether: Mafia Goon
bozo: Mafia GF
brainbomb: Mafia Goon
BunnyGo: Not town
​celaph: Mafia Goon
damo: VT
DemonRHK:
Donny:
emc:
Ezio:
ghug: Mafia Goon
Hamilton:
HR:
jasnah: Mafia Lover
kgray: chooses not to answer
lfischl: Alien
Macca:
Mania​c:
rdrivera: chooses not to answer
Vecna:

Okay, I've finally caught up to this point in the thread. I can't see much harm in claiming, but not much benefit either. For now, I discarded a non-town role. I may say which later if I see a benefit.

You should say now. There's no harm, if you're scum you'll have a chance to talk to your team once night comes, and you might die workout telling us.

But what's the benefit? Bunny also is refusing to say, so there must be some reason that claiming a specific role is not the clear best option (although I'll admit I haven't given it too much thought, I think it's largely a lack of benefits). I'll give it a thought, and get back to you when I catch up.

[celaph]

As I've mentioned earlier I'm getting weird vibes from ghug. I feel like he believed more in the D1 ND push in M62 than he has believed in any of the pushes the last two games.

The ND push in M62 was exactly the same as the ND push in M63.

Your M62 push on ND showcased nuance and thought and that you were paying attention to the things being said. Sure you admitted that part of your vote was out of dislike for ND as a person, but you also provided justification for your vote multiple times. You shared that you thought he may not be scum as well as why you changed your mind. You questions votes not for ND.

Your M63 push on ND had virtually none of that. You never demonstrated any belief that ND was scum. Just that it was good for town to vote him off and that Maniac was a bad wagon. And there are obvious reasons why those wagons were different, ND was non-existent M63. You couldn't push him on anything scummy because he hadn't done anything at all.

My point isn't that the wagons the two games were different. Though they clearly were and I'm not sure why you say otherwise. My point is that I haven't seen the thought and consideration from M62 ghug in either of the last games.

[BobMcBob]

##vote kgray

Neat! What about me choosing not to answer is scummy?

Information is always helpful to town, and revealing that you know information that doesn't benefit town (such as you were dealt two strong PRs and so had to discard one) cannot be orchestrated without giving scum a fair shot at knowing it anyways, so it's better to either totally avoid answering (but then mafia might discern something there) or to answer truthfully. You have ruled out the first, so the town course of action is to answer truthfully.

I don't understand where this is coming from. kgray is well within her rights to avoid answering, and this doesn't benefit tow thing seems like it's coming out of nowhere. There is little to no benefit to anyone claiming. I do think this meta-level discard stuff looks a little bad for kgray, but not at all to the point where I want to scumread her for it. I also don't really like engaging in the meta-discussion as much as in discussion about in-game actions personally.

[ghug]

As I've mentioned earlier I'm getting weird vibes from ghug. I feel like he believed more in the D1 ND push in M62 than he has believed in any of the pushes the last two games.

The ND push in M62 was exactly the same as the ND push in M63.

Your M62 push on ND showcased nuance and thought and that you were paying attention to the things being said. Sure you admitted that part of your vote was out of dislike for ND as a person, but you also provided justification for your vote multiple times. You shared that you thought he may not be scum as well as why you changed your mind. You questions votes not for ND.

Your M63 push on ND had virtually none of that. You never demonstrated any belief that ND was scum. Just that it was good for town to vote him off and that Maniac was a bad wagon. And there are obvious reasons why those wagons were different, ND was non-existent M63. You couldn't push him on anything scummy because he hadn't done anything at all.

My point isn't that the wagons the two games were different. Though they clearly were and I'm not sure why you say otherwise. My point is that I haven't seen the thought and consideration from M62 ghug in either of the last games.

I guess I mean that the motivations were identical, but I see your point on the intensity and approach.

Normally I spend day 1 loudly fucking around (which is in effect what I was doing with ND), and I'm doing the same here.

[BobMcBob]

I think bona is saying the following:

1) kgray declines to answer suggests she has something to hide
a) She chose scum
b) She chose PR

So if you chose scum, you're delaying your answer to figure out what is safe to claim.

If you chose PR, you could just claim you tossed VT.

^

Y'all are making a lot of assumptions. One that particularly offends me is the idea that I would claim that I tossed VT as a PR but not as scum. You guys can't say I'm good at scum and then also believe I couldn't easily come up with that obvious solution to this question.

This is exactly why the whole claiming business is largely useless. It's mostly distracting mechs talk as far as I'm concerned. If I claim my discard, does it benefit town? Not really. There's an off chance it'll generate some cred for me, but that's about it.

[bozotheclown]

Discard claims:

Options are stating a specific role, town/not town, town/mafia/alien, or choosing not to answer.

Bob: not town
Bonatogether: Mafia Goon
bozo: Mafia GF
brainbomb: Mafia Goon
BunnyGo: not town
​celaph: Mafia Goon
damo: VT
DemonRHK:
Donny:
emc: town
Ezio:
ghug: Mafia Goon
Hamilton:
HR:
jasnah: Mafia Lover
kgray: chooses not to answer
lfischl: Alien
Macca:
Mania​c:
rdrivera: chooses not to answer
Vecna:

[BobMcBob]

Anyone else notice that Macca hasn't townslipped yet?

A look at iso is not a lot there.

Right, so I went back through all his recent games. The recent town games had a lot of slips. And then needed it spelled out how they were even slips.

The scum games had not a lot. And something weird about hammering jamie d1 while he slept? It was weird and jokey.

I remember him making that hammer joke (wasn't in the game though I believe). I've talked to them during basically all the games they've played and as town they seem very legitimately confused (although I remember less about their town games than about how they respond as scum), and in scum games they often get called out for something that they thought was townie or wasn't remotely scum motivated and get very confused about it. I can't remember basically any of their posts (except for saying hi like 5 times) so I'm not sure what this is yet.

[BobMcBob]

Bozo, can you please start doing something other than bookkeeping the discard claims? Push a little, question a little (not about discards), give some of your feelings about people. Stop hiding behind a very basic mechs operation.

[bozotheclown]

(25/68)*(24/67) =14.3% chance a player is not given at least one town choice.

Yes and no.

It is 14.3% to 1 dp but not the lhs.

It is 325/2278

Thank you for letting me know that bozo's answer was inaccurate by .034(ish) of a percent, I am sure this information will come in handy.

I think damo was pointing out I made a mistake in what I wrote, it should be (26/68)*(25/67) , which is what I calculated to get 14.3%.

Based on this, the most likely number of players who did not have a town choice is 3.

[Donny Dude]

Bozo, can you please start doing something other than bookkeeping the discard claims? Push a little, question a little (not about discards), give some of your feelings about people. Stop hiding behind a very basic mechs operation.

I agree with this just as I finish catchup.
Bona is town after keeping to his thought process, though it is one I think is infuriating and makes me want to put head through wall.
Celaph, Why does it matter that bb to you is more likely to be one type of role than another?