MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[Donny Dude]

the fix seems to be going to the home page then back through game status.

[Hellenic Riot]

My actual point is that why on earth has literally nobody been able to come up with a case against any of these people in the past 46, hell, 70 hours?

[aarodactyl]

My actual point is that why on earth has literally nobody been able to come up with a case against any of these people in the past 46, hell, 70 hours?

Shouldn't your question be proof that bozo is scum?

[worcej]

I desperately need to finish working on a report (yes it's 10:15pm and I am working, pity me) but I will be back for EoD if I can, and in the meantime ##Vote Worcej.

This is pretty lazy from you Jamie...

[President Eden]

Chaqa, I think your heuristic that we shouldn't be voting ghug voters today is fine, but that still leaves 7/13 players still in the game.

It's not a good sign that only two of those seven are even on the block right now or that there's no case beyond "they didn't vote ghug" for the ones who are.

To be completely honest, I would have a lot of trouble meaningfully distinguishing between those options right now anyway.

Yeah, I tend to agree. I think a shot in the dark on one of them followed by a cop reveal is probably close to auto, though.

I'd actually prefer to vote our HR or Flum today, but I thought Bozo or celaph would be easier to push. :shrug:

I'd be even more all-ears to hearing a case on me at this point

And whilst I'm more open to Fluminator, yet again I see literally nobody bothering to make a case there either.

Durga was defending ghug pretty hard, back when he was being pushed for behavioral analysis reasons that turned out to be spot on.

Of all things, this caught my attention on a reread first:

Minimum 2 scum in Eden, Durga, ghug, Jamiet, Vecna.

bet.

I could actually believe this tbh. But I ain't votin it day 1

You think there's two scum between me ghug jamiet and Vecna. Who?

Mostly because I didn't actually remember thinking this
But this is odd to me in hindsight because Chaqa was basically just throwing susses out there without any specific reasoning given, and I made just a passing comment that it wasn't a ridiculous list. Durga immediately hopped in and actually pressed me on it:

You think there's two scum between me ghug jamiet and Vecna. Who?

I said I could believe it... I'm not liking Jamie's day 1 much, Vec could be one, I could be wrong about you or ghug even though I don't think I am. But like I said I ain't votin it right now

That's right, you town read me and ghug, and presumably yourself. So...you could actually believe this??

Obviously, I was quite wrong about which ones. But that list still isn't proven wrong yet, and it surprises me how defensive Durga seemed to be about it. I probably should have pressed on this more at the time, but at the time the two I was thinking were Jamie and Vecna.

The next thing I'm going to post is going to require a bunch of alcohol to get through so bear with me.

[worcej]

I really hope it isn't actually just Bona and worcej and I look like a fool lol

It'd be kinda crazy for worcej to go to all the solving effort behind Bona being mafia, vote Bona, but then declare that Bona is a town read. Seems like he would just commit all the way to the bus. I don't think there's any way worcej is mafia if Bona is mafia.

Again, pay attention: I *think* Bona is town. I gave you a list of stronger town reads.

If anything, I townlean bona, but his INFORMATIONAL FLIP is critical here, regardless of the outcome.

[Chaqa]

Unfortunately the Peterbot refuses to load for me again, so I'm a bit constrained.

Like is it just showing nothing for d5?

It intermittently just refuses to load for me. Not sure why.

It's on again now.

[worcej]

I really hope it isn't actually just Bona and worcej and I look like a fool lol

It'd be kinda crazy for worcej to go to all the solving effort behind Bona being mafia, vote Bona, but then declare that Bona is a town read. Seems like he would just commit all the way to the bus. I don't think there's any way worcej is mafia if Bona is mafia.

Then flip Bona with me and you can push me on D6.

[worcej]

@Worcej: Why do you always end up in these really heated, slightly unpleasant arguments with people? Seriously.

Hold on a sec, that's not really fair. I clearly started this fight and have been the more heated party by far. You can't blame him for that.

I didn't say Worcej was to blame I said he often seems to end up in these kind of arguments. And yeah, Eden, you should also cool down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A

Seeya soon dweebs.

FWIW, I find it rich to see you policing a non-event between me and Eden.

[Chaqa]

My actual point is that why on earth has literally nobody been able to come up with a case against any of these people in the past 46, hell, 70 hours?

I had assumed the cop would come in and solve for us or that Bona would get railroaded. I dunno.

[Chaqa]

I really hope it isn't actually just Bona and worcej and I look like a fool lol

It'd be kinda crazy for worcej to go to all the solving effort behind Bona being mafia, vote Bona, but then declare that Bona is a town read. Seems like he would just commit all the way to the bus. I don't think there's any way worcej is mafia if Bona is mafia.

Then flip Bona with me and you can push me on D6.

But he's town.

[President Eden]

What a cop out bullshit response. So your top scum read is because you think I haven't done much d1? When have I ever? Literally I did everything you did, so how is it scummy?

You often talk a lot and lead kills day one, so I don't really but the "I always do that" excuse. I was starting to scumread you last game right before you claimed tracker too, so I'm pretty comfortable saying voting you based on the early feeling isn't the best course of action.

I thought I was the paranoid one, what's with you?

I obviously wanted ND dead last day without wanting to stir up ND. I thought that was obvious. I couldn't be the main pusher for optics (I don't like people having a negative impression of me bc of drama and I hate drama) but I was obviously directing people EoD so this is nonsense.

I have to confess that:

1) I missed the passage in boldface until now.

2) Durga knew about the subs for ND, and still openly pushed for ND to be killed just because ND is ND. I do not think Durga would do this if she knew ND were her teammate, because ND would just get subbed out. We've talked about this point before, but there is something specifically earnest and blatant about this admission that makes me think she isn't lying.

Durga/ND could be town/town, mafia/town, or town/mafia, but I don't see a world where it is mafia/mafia at least.

3) Durga's subsequent hard defense of ghug makes me think they are mafia together. I didn't communicate the point well because I got mad at ghug, but he was very blatantly trying to park on worcej without any real reasoning and not even trying to find someone he actually suspected. I don't think town Durga gives ghug a pass here.

Proof of said hard defense:

Ghug cares much more about his image when he's scum, I don't think scum. Ghug votes the ND slot again, he'd make more of an effort to look like he's scum hunting

I mean I'll look ridiculous here if you're not but nothing is giving me scum!ghug vibes

He's fine, you're being dramatic

No, he's really not.

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

Town that demoralize solving efforts literally are playing against their win condition by definition. It's not even that bold for ghug to do it as mafia since he inexplicably gets townread for doing it, but even if it is, it's at least playing to his win condition, even if it's risky or turns out to be -EV. Shitting on other town for trying to solve the game while concededly doing jack and shit to solve it himself is appallingly anti-town regardless of his alignment. I refuse to believe he is doing this on purpose as town. He has to be mafia.

That's not exactly playing against your win condition. Playing a less that appealing play style is not playing against your win condition.

I don't understand why you're adament he has to be mafia when you've literally been told he's done this as town.

I hate voting Fluminator for the actions of the previous owner of his slot. And I really hate having to swallow my pride.

But Durga looks really suspicious here in hindsight, and if Durga is mafia, I don't see how worcej could possibly be the last one.

##VOTE Fluminator

[aarodactyl]

You often talk a lot and lead kills day one, so I don't really but the "I always do that" excuse. I was starting to scumread you last game right before you claimed tracker too, so I'm pretty comfortable saying voting you based on the early feeling isn't the best course of action.

I thought I was the paranoid one, what's with you?

I obviously wanted ND dead last day without wanting to stir up ND. I thought that was obvious. I couldn't be the main pusher for optics (I don't like people having a negative impression of me bc of drama and I hate drama) but I was obviously directing people EoD so this is nonsense.

I have to confess that:

1) I missed the passage in boldface until now.

2) Durga knew about the subs for ND, and still openly pushed for ND to be killed just because ND is ND. I do not think Durga would do this if she knew ND were her teammate, because ND would just get subbed out. We've talked about this point before, but there is something specifically earnest and blatant about this admission that makes me think she isn't lying.

Durga/ND could be town/town, mafia/town, or town/mafia, but I don't see a world where it is mafia/mafia at least.

3) Durga's subsequent hard defense of ghug makes me think they are mafia together. I didn't communicate the point well because I got mad at ghug, but he was very blatantly trying to park on worcej without any real reasoning and not even trying to find someone he actually suspected. I don't think town Durga gives ghug a pass here.

Proof of said hard defense:

Ghug cares much more about his image when he's scum, I don't think scum. Ghug votes the ND slot again, he'd make more of an effort to look like he's scum hunting

I mean I'll look ridiculous here if you're not but nothing is giving me scum!ghug vibes

No, he's really not.

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

Town that demoralize solving efforts literally are playing against their win condition by definition. It's not even that bold for ghug to do it as mafia since he inexplicably gets townread for doing it, but even if it is, it's at least playing to his win condition, even if it's risky or turns out to be -EV. Shitting on other town for trying to solve the game while concededly doing jack and shit to solve it himself is appallingly anti-town regardless of his alignment. I refuse to believe he is doing this on purpose as town. He has to be mafia.

That's not exactly playing against your win condition. Playing a less that appealing play style is not playing against your win condition.

I don't understand why you're adament he has to be mafia when you've literally been told he's done this as town.

I hate voting Fluminator for the actions of the previous owner of his slot. And I really hate having to swallow my pride.

But Durga looks really suspicious here in hindsight, and if Durga is mafia, I don't see how worcej could possibly be the last one.

##VOTE Fluminator

Let's say I had a weird D1 and that I also pushed back against a D2 ghug train. Would you vote me for that? Because that's basically what this argument against Flum looks like.

[Hellenic Riot]

My actual point is that why on earth has literally nobody been able to come up with a case against any of these people in the past 46, hell, 70 hours?

I had assumed the cop would come in and solve for us or that Bona would get railroaded. I dunno.

Maybe the cop has a guilty on Bona

[Hellenic Riot]

I thought I was the paranoid one, what's with you?

I obviously wanted ND dead last day without wanting to stir up ND. I thought that was obvious. I couldn't be the main pusher for optics (I don't like people having a negative impression of me bc of drama and I hate drama) but I was obviously directing people EoD so this is nonsense.

I have to confess that:

1) I missed the passage in boldface until now.

2) Durga knew about the subs for ND, and still openly pushed for ND to be killed just because ND is ND. I do not think Durga would do this if she knew ND were her teammate, because ND would just get subbed out. We've talked about this point before, but there is something specifically earnest and blatant about this admission that makes me think she isn't lying.

Durga/ND could be town/town, mafia/town, or town/mafia, but I don't see a world where it is mafia/mafia at least.

3) Durga's subsequent hard defense of ghug makes me think they are mafia together. I didn't communicate the point well because I got mad at ghug, but he was very blatantly trying to park on worcej without any real reasoning and not even trying to find someone he actually suspected. I don't think town Durga gives ghug a pass here.

Proof of said hard defense:

Ghug cares much more about his image when he's scum, I don't think scum. Ghug votes the ND slot again, he'd make more of an effort to look like he's scum hunting

I mean I'll look ridiculous here if you're not but nothing is giving me scum!ghug vibes

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

That's not exactly playing against your win condition. Playing a less that appealing play style is not playing against your win condition.

I don't understand why you're adament he has to be mafia when you've literally been told he's done this as town.

I hate voting Fluminator for the actions of the previous owner of his slot. And I really hate having to swallow my pride.

But Durga looks really suspicious here in hindsight, and if Durga is mafia, I don't see how worcej could possibly be the last one.

##VOTE Fluminator

Let's say I had a weird D1 and that I also pushed back against a D2 ghug train. Would you vote me for that? Because that's basically what this argument against Flum looks like.

In fairness, given how Flum has basically done the bare minimum ever since, the main reason I suspect him is also still because of Durga.

[Chaqa]

My actual point is that why on earth has literally nobody been able to come up with a case against any of these people in the past 46, hell, 70 hours?

I had assumed the cop would come in and solve for us or that Bona would get railroaded. I dunno.

Maybe the cop has a guilty on Bona

Then they should say so.

##Vote Fluminator

[Donny Dude]

I cannot remember anything flum has said or done, when I think about it.
##vote flum

[aarodactyl]

I had assumed the cop would come in and solve for us or that Bona would get railroaded. I dunno.

Maybe the cop has a guilty on Bona

Then they should say so.

##Vote Fluminator

Flum seems so town though.

I also hate to point it out, but I remember pushing way more than Durga against the ghug train. It's crazy to me that you're voting out flum for not liking Durga and for doing something I did. What have they done since then?

[Hellenic Riot]

Maybe the cop has a guilty on Bona

Then they should say so.

##Vote Fluminator

Flum seems so town though.

I also hate to point it out, but I remember pushing way more than Durga against the ghug train. It's crazy to me that you're voting out flum for not liking Durga and for doing something I did. What have they done since then?

What about Flum seems town?

[President Eden]

Let's say I had a weird D1 and that I also pushed back against a D2 ghug train. Would you vote me for that? Because that's basically what this argument against Flum looks like.

What HR said basically. Fluminator hasn't meaningfully stood out since rejoining. He sheeped HR onto Bonatogether and said that ghug earned another day and HB was being weird. After that we kind of lined up mafia in a row and shot them. He wasn't significantly invested in those kills, although it's worth pointing out that he was one of the emc voters.