MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[worcej]

Do you think I am more or less likely to be mafia than Bona?
If more, why do you want to flip the player less likely to be mafia when a Cop exists? Why are you not maximizing the chance to hit mafia with the flip?
If less, why do you suspect me when you think Bona is likely town and I am less likely to be mafia than Bona?

I think you are less likely to be mafia than Bona because my entire case on you is built up that you're trying to be the deep threat.

So... the rest of your questions are a waste of effort/time.

I think you need to understand, I *think* Bona is town. He is not obv!town to me like damo, Chaqa, HR, and Jamie currently are - this is my 'no fucking way do I flip' list currently. Bona is acting like a shitty town player, but I am after a clearer image of EOD2 more than anything because if I know his alignment, then the other 2 scum players become more narrowed down.

So basically you think damo, Chaqa, HR, Jamie, myself, Bona, and yourself [obviously] are town - in varying degrees and not all equal, sure, no issue there - there are two different counterwagons to Bona available right now and you're still voting your town read.

Why not do some theorizing about whether bozo or celaph are mafia here and decide whether they make more sense to vote?

I would rather flip Bona over those because Bona's role eliminates a lot of theory for EOD2 and confirms the scum teams actions.

[President Eden]

I've always disagreed with end votes being scummy. Maybe a bunch of them or piling on is, but one or two end votes don't mean anything, especially at this point. Shading worcej for his end vote is silly.

I didn't think Eden was being super scummy until today. I really don't understand his thought process here.

How do you not understand why I would be suspicious of someone declaring a player town and then voting them and endhammering them.

I didn't say endhammers are per se suspicious. Endhammers on people you townread sure are.

[worcej]

Do you think I am more or less likely to be mafia than Bona?
If more, why do you want to flip the player less likely to be mafia when a Cop exists? Why are you not maximizing the chance to hit mafia with the flip?
If less, why do you suspect me when you think Bona is likely town and I am less likely to be mafia than Bona?

I think you are less likely to be mafia than Bona because my entire case on you is built up that you're trying to be the deep threat.

So... the rest of your questions are a waste of effort/time.

I think you need to understand, I *think* Bona is town. He is not obv!town to me like damo, Chaqa, HR, and Jamie currently are - this is my 'no fucking way do I flip' list currently. Bona is acting like a shitty town player, but I am after a clearer image of EOD2 more than anything because if I know his alignment, then the other 2 scum players become more narrowed down.

So basically you think damo, Chaqa, HR, Jamie, myself, Bona, and yourself [obviously] are town - in varying degrees and not all equal, sure, no issue there - there are two different counterwagons to Bona available right now and you're still voting your town read.

Why not do some theorizing about whether bozo or celaph are mafia here and decide whether they make more sense to vote?

Like honestly, you are also going so deep to try to protect Bona here that I also want to flip him because it seems like a hail-mary attempt from you for some dumb reason.

[worcej]

I've always disagreed with end votes being scummy. Maybe a bunch of them or piling on is, but one or two end votes don't mean anything, especially at this point. Shading worcej for his end vote is silly.

I didn't think Eden was being super scummy until today. I really don't understand his thought process here.

How do you not understand why I would be suspicious of someone declaring a player town and then voting them and endhammering them.

I didn't say endhammers are per se suspicious. Endhammers on people you townread sure are.

I DID THIS WITH BRAIN, BUT WHERE WAS YOUR COMPLAINT THEN?!?!

[Chaqa]

I've always disagreed with end votes being scummy. Maybe a bunch of them or piling on is, but one or two end votes don't mean anything, especially at this point. Shading worcej for his end vote is silly.

I didn't think Eden was being super scummy until today. I really don't understand his thought process here.

How do you not understand why I would be suspicious of someone declaring a player town and then voting them and endhammering them.

I didn't say endhammers are per se suspicious. Endhammers on people you townread sure are.

You act like he's cop-scan level of certainty on his Bona townread.

I don't think an info kill here on the biggest question mark player is unreasonable, and furthermore, it's very in character for worcej as a player.

[worcej]

And before you spin it:

worcej looks like he knows too much if brainbomb is in fact town.

That isn't a complaint, it is motherfucking shade. You shaded me and that's it.

Now you're scumming me ridiculously.

[President Eden]

I'm just going to be repeating myself endlessly and it's starting to stress me out. I fundamentally do not understand how anything I am saying is difficult to process. I feel like I'm being gaslit again, just like with ghug early day 2 - which I was also right about by the way.

This game fucking sucks.

[celaph]

Do you think I am more or less likely to be mafia than Bona?
If more, why do you want to flip the player less likely to be mafia when a Cop exists? Why are you not maximizing the chance to hit mafia with the flip?
If less, why do you suspect me when you think Bona is likely town and I am less likely to be mafia than Bona?

I think you are less likely to be mafia than Bona because my entire case on you is built up that you're trying to be the deep threat.

So... the rest of your questions are a waste of effort/time.

I think you need to understand, I *think* Bona is town. He is not obv!town to me like damo, Chaqa, HR, and Jamie currently are - this is my 'no fucking way do I flip' list currently. Bona is acting like a shitty town player, but I am after a clearer image of EOD2 more than anything because if I know his alignment, then the other 2 scum players become more narrowed down.

And before you pounce on this, because you seem to be wanting my flip no matter what, if he flips town then there are 2 scum.

If he flips scum, then there is one. I believe his flip will be town, but like I've ALREADY FUCKING SAID SEVERAL FUCKING TIMES, if he is scum then there for sure is the final scum in HR, Flurga, or bozo.

This makes us closer to winning over any other path that I currently see.

1) What do you see in damo/Chaqa that makes you think they're obvtown?
2) Why is HR both in your obvtown list and your list of possible scum if Bona is scum? If Bona is scum here, do you think HR is bussing?

[Chaqa]

I'm just going to be repeating myself endlessly and it's starting to stress me out. I fundamentally do not understand how anything I am saying is difficult to process. I feel like I'm being gaslit again, just like with ghug early day 2 - which I was also right about by the way.

This game fucking sucks.

Now you know how I felt about the medbay incident yesterday.

[President Eden]

I'm just going to be repeating myself endlessly and it's starting to stress me out. I fundamentally do not understand how anything I am saying is difficult to process. I feel like I'm being gaslit again, just like with ghug early day 2 - which I was also right about by the way.

This game fucking sucks.

Now you know how I felt about the medbay incident yesterday.

You weren't even giving us a chance to talk dude, I literally muted you in Discord so I could talk directly to the other people to figure out what was happening. Totally different circumstance.

I've at least been talking with worcej about the problems I have with his game. I'm thoroughly unconvinced but at least hearing him out and trying to understand it, it just doesn't make any sense. I fundamentally do not get why someone would play the way he did, and I have read his explanations, and I still don't get them, and I also don't get why the fact that I don't get them is so difficult to understand. I don't think I'm making some 9001 IQ galaxy brain argument here.

[worcej]

I think you are less likely to be mafia than Bona because my entire case on you is built up that you're trying to be the deep threat.

So... the rest of your questions are a waste of effort/time.

I think you need to understand, I *think* Bona is town. He is not obv!town to me like damo, Chaqa, HR, and Jamie currently are - this is my 'no fucking way do I flip' list currently. Bona is acting like a shitty town player, but I am after a clearer image of EOD2 more than anything because if I know his alignment, then the other 2 scum players become more narrowed down.

And before you pounce on this, because you seem to be wanting my flip no matter what, if he flips town then there are 2 scum.

If he flips scum, then there is one. I believe his flip will be town, but like I've ALREADY FUCKING SAID SEVERAL FUCKING TIMES, if he is scum then there for sure is the final scum in HR, Flurga, or bozo.

This makes us closer to winning over any other path that I currently see.

1) What do you see in damo/Chaqa that makes you think they're obvtown?
2) Why is HR both in your obvtown list and your list of possible scum if Bona is scum? If Bona is scum here, do you think HR is bussing?

Response to #1 - Chaqa is obvious based on his last game. I do not see the same actions he made to try to make it to end game as scum. Damo is more reserved than anyone, but he is being better about presenting his thoughts and opinions than he does as scum.

Response to #2 - That list of three is based on voting positions on D2 if Bona is scum. Those 3 players could not move their vote easily without suspicion being gained once a flip happens, so they were stuck bussing. If Bona is scum, HR is the least likely person of the three. I'd start with Bozo, then Flurga, then HR since that seems to matter for you.

[worcej]

I'm just going to be repeating myself endlessly and it's starting to stress me out. I fundamentally do not understand how anything I am saying is difficult to process. I feel like I'm being gaslit again, just like with ghug early day 2 - which I was also right about by the way.

This game fucking sucks.

Now you know how I felt about the medbay incident yesterday.

You weren't even giving us a chance to talk dude, I literally muted you in Discord so I could talk directly to the other people to figure out what was happening. Totally different circumstance.

I've at least been talking with worcej about the problems I have with his game. I'm thoroughly unconvinced but at least hearing him out and trying to understand it, it just doesn't make any sense. I fundamentally do not get why someone would play the way he did, and I have read his explanations, and I still don't get them, and I also don't get why the fact that I don't get them is so difficult to understand. I don't think I'm making some 9001 IQ galaxy brain argument here.

You're hung up on the end vote.

##unend

Feel better now? I removed the thing you give so much of a shit about that had no actual value since no one is actually end voting other than me.

Do my thoughts make any better sense now? I bet they don't, so why were you so pissy about my end vote again?

[Chaqa]

##end

[worcej]

@Eden - hammer removed, since you hate those as we know, now you can see this: The bona flip is an informational flip.

He could be scum, which is sweet! One left, and they're very easy to find now.

He could be town, dang that sucks... but now we understand wtf ghug, BB, and HB did on EOD2 and can piece some more reasoning on why they did it and who could be connected to them because of what they did.

Gun to my forehead, I think Bona is town and the above is our situation, but I like this more because the information I gain doesn't require a PR from claiming right away and keeps the game still easily in our control.

[President Eden]

Now you know how I felt about the medbay incident yesterday.

You weren't even giving us a chance to talk dude, I literally muted you in Discord so I could talk directly to the other people to figure out what was happening. Totally different circumstance.

I've at least been talking with worcej about the problems I have with his game. I'm thoroughly unconvinced but at least hearing him out and trying to understand it, it just doesn't make any sense. I fundamentally do not get why someone would play the way he did, and I have read his explanations, and I still don't get them, and I also don't get why the fact that I don't get them is so difficult to understand. I don't think I'm making some 9001 IQ galaxy brain argument here.

You're hung up on the end vote.

##unend

Feel better now? I removed the thing you give so much of a shit about that had no actual value since no one is actually end voting other than me.

Do my thoughts make any better sense now? I bet they don't, so why were you so pissy about my end vote again?

Man you know that doesn't change anything after I've been calling it out for hours. Don't do this unless you actually want me to death tunnel you.

I've said over and over what would actually make me not suspect you as much or even drop my suspicions: act consistently with your reads.
Your town read has two viable counterwagons neither of which you townread. Why not do the same level of analysis you did for the world where Bona is scum on both them? Why not start working through the worlds where they are mafia?

You are doing everything you possibly can right now except that, when it's the one thing I would expect a town to be doing here.

[worcej]

##end

OH NO EDEN, A HAMMER VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO NOW?!

[President Eden]

I actually don't even care if a Cop claims and says worcej is innocent, my vote isn't moving

See y'all after EOD

[celaph]

My gut says that Worcej is the wrong wagon here. I think that HR has made the best argument for why someone is scum in Bona so I'm going to sheep that for now. ##vote Bona

Flum has hinted that he wants to make a scum Bozo argument and I would love to hear that if he has one. If others have arguments for their wagons, feel free to share it.

[worcej]

You weren't even giving us a chance to talk dude, I literally muted you in Discord so I could talk directly to the other people to figure out what was happening. Totally different circumstance.

I've at least been talking with worcej about the problems I have with his game. I'm thoroughly unconvinced but at least hearing him out and trying to understand it, it just doesn't make any sense. I fundamentally do not get why someone would play the way he did, and I have read his explanations, and I still don't get them, and I also don't get why the fact that I don't get them is so difficult to understand. I don't think I'm making some 9001 IQ galaxy brain argument here.

You're hung up on the end vote.

##unend

Feel better now? I removed the thing you give so much of a shit about that had no actual value since no one is actually end voting other than me.

Do my thoughts make any better sense now? I bet they don't, so why were you so pissy about my end vote again?

Man you know that doesn't change anything after I've been calling it out for hours. Don't do this unless you actually want me to death tunnel you.

I've said over and over what would actually make me not suspect you as much or even drop my suspicions: act consistently with your reads.
Your town read has two viable counterwagons neither of which you townread. Why not do the same level of analysis you did for the world where Bona is scum on both them? Why not start working through the worlds where they are mafia?

You are doing everything you possibly can right now except that, when it's the one thing I would expect a town to be doing here.

You already are death tunneling me.

My point is your tunnel is stupid. The hammer is gone and was never a threat to begin with, but that was such a big deal to you, yet in the past you didn't seem to care and were actually more interested in why I didn't want to hammer BB when he was the majority vote.

Why are you pissed my hammer was here when Bona had over 50% of the active players voting for him?
Why did you not care as strongly when I hammered BB but thought he was going to be town?

[Chaqa]

I actually don't even care if a Cop claims and says worcej is innocent, my vote isn't moving

See y'all after EOD

Jeez, and you called worcej scummy for what he did?

LMAO

I'm down to speedwagon Eden based off this one post.