MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[President Eden]

Surely you have some information-based questions about people you suspect, worcej.

I'd use a hypothetical but I don't even know who your suspects are right now because you've spent all day working on hypotheticals where your town read is mafia.

Okay, Eden:

1. Why are you being so incredibly shallow with your analysis on me right now? You've been doing deeper dives on others, yet meh atm. The reasoning is soft and you're going hardcore pushing with little actual substance.
2. Why have you been consistently late to actually voting scum so far, or on off wagons, and making a lot of noise that has been mostly wrong? You were on Maniac D1 (wrong), bona D2 (off-wagon, conveniently away from ghug), BB D3 (pre-determined), late as sin to HB (thus a good bus), and now D4 are pushing my slot suddenly because you don't like me voting for someone who I think is town, which I've already done once with the BB vote.

You want me to make an official statement, here you go: I think you're the scum deep threat and you're hoping that ND/myself are either a PR so that this push ends up forcing a claim from me or that the cop, who has most likely scanned me at this point because my slot was so contested early on, is forced out early to prevent one of his scanned town for flipping.

I already laid the initial comment about shading you, but here is my actual 'push' since you asked for it

You are still endhammering your town read and not voting me after this post. Fucking LOL.

[Hellenic Riot]

If Chaqa is defending a partner it's Bona, not worcej. Defending worcej is just a cheap and easy way to look good when he inevitably flips town

@Bona

Why are you not replying to my questioning about your theory? Why are you not responding to it in any way whatsoever and yet immediately jump back onto worcej?

[Chaqa]

This seems contradictory. Why do you think ghug and Hamilton would not keep bussing ND through EOD if you think ND flipping scum would get them so much town credit? Don't you think moving to Maniac (like brainbomb did) would implicate them later if ND flipped scum?

This was in relation to if I were scum with worcej, specifically.

My take is ghug and Hamilton didn't move because they didn't care who died.

If ND was town they did not care, but if ND was scum, they would look bad moving their vote at EOD, so I do not understand why you would expect them to "move over to Maniac" if ND was scum.

Ah, this makes sense. Mea culpa.

[worcej]

You won't even vote me, just like brainbomb

Because I need to catch 2 scum and there are still odds Bona is the 4th scum, which I feel is more supported with VCA and movement from the 3 dead scum.

You are distant from the rest of the scum team and it is beginning to look intentionally like that. You're starting to stand out as the deep threat.

[President Eden]

@Eden - my reasoning is sound and explicitly available for you, but you're hung up on the fact that I still have a hammer out there (which was put when Bona had a majority of votes) and that I still haven't removed it.

Why were you silent and not angry when we hammered BB? I don't recall any outrage from you then.

I voted brainbomb not even two hours into Day 3 and explained my thinking point-blank:

I am withholding my end vote until everyone checks in or 24 hours have passed. I realize this game is going to stagnate a bit, since brainbomb is basically conceding that he is mafia, but it's for the best if people who didn't happen to be available right when this day starts get some chance to weigh in, even if it is in fact just to vote brainbomb and end.

This situation is night and day compared to that.

You still aren't voting me

[worcej]

Surely you have some information-based questions about people you suspect, worcej.

I'd use a hypothetical but I don't even know who your suspects are right now because you've spent all day working on hypotheticals where your town read is mafia.

Okay, Eden:

1. Why are you being so incredibly shallow with your analysis on me right now? You've been doing deeper dives on others, yet meh atm. The reasoning is soft and you're going hardcore pushing with little actual substance.
2. Why have you been consistently late to actually voting scum so far, or on off wagons, and making a lot of noise that has been mostly wrong? You were on Maniac D1 (wrong), bona D2 (off-wagon, conveniently away from ghug), BB D3 (pre-determined), late as sin to HB (thus a good bus), and now D4 are pushing my slot suddenly because you don't like me voting for someone who I think is town, which I've already done once with the BB vote.

You want me to make an official statement, here you go: I think you're the scum deep threat and you're hoping that ND/myself are either a PR so that this push ends up forcing a claim from me or that the cop, who has most likely scanned me at this point because my slot was so contested early on, is forced out early to prevent one of his scanned town for flipping.

I already laid the initial comment about shading you, but here is my actual 'push' since you asked for it

You are still endhammering your town read and not voting me after this post. Fucking LOL.

BECAUSE FLIPPING BONA MAKES MORE SENSE TO UNDERSTAND EOD2 THAN GOING DOWN MY WILD THEORY BASED READ ON YOU!

This isn't that hard Eden. Pay attention.

[President Eden]

You won't even vote me, just like brainbomb

Because I need to catch 2 scum and there are still odds Bona is the 4th scum, which I feel is more supported with VCA and movement from the 3 dead scum.

You are distant from the rest of the scum team and it is beginning to look intentionally like that. You're starting to stand out as the deep threat.

You plan on catching two mafia by voting your town reads or what?

[President Eden]

You won't even vote me, just like brainbomb

Because I need to catch 2 scum and there are still odds Bona is the 4th scum, which I feel is more supported with VCA and movement from the 3 dead scum.

You are distant from the rest of the scum team and it is beginning to look intentionally like that. You're starting to stand out as the deep threat.

I thought I was saving all my teammates day 2 by voting Bona, what happened?

[worcej]

You won't even vote me, just like brainbomb

Because I need to catch 2 scum and there are still odds Bona is the 4th scum, which I feel is more supported with VCA and movement from the 3 dead scum.

You are distant from the rest of the scum team and it is beginning to look intentionally like that. You're starting to stand out as the deep threat.

You plan on catching two mafia by voting your town reads or what?

Yeah, when my town read is so involved with EOD2 where 3 scum made weird moves surrounding Bona, it could easily catch 2 other scum.

I've actually pegged two scum so far this game based on their behavior, so my scum~dar actually isn't too bad this game.

[President Eden]

Why don't you want the Cop to check Bona while you vote me?

[worcej]

@Eden - my reasoning is sound and explicitly available for you, but you're hung up on the fact that I still have a hammer out there (which was put when Bona had a majority of votes) and that I still haven't removed it.

Why were you silent and not angry when we hammered BB? I don't recall any outrage from you then.

I voted brainbomb not even two hours into Day 3 and explained my thinking point-blank:

I am withholding my end vote until everyone checks in or 24 hours have passed. I realize this game is going to stagnate a bit, since brainbomb is basically conceding that he is mafia, but it's for the best if people who didn't happen to be available right when this day starts get some chance to weigh in, even if it is in fact just to vote brainbomb and end.

This situation is night and day compared to that.

You still aren't voting me

You're right, you were being soft and nice on D3 to avoid getting any suspicion or connections to defending BB, who was scum.

You're going full-tilt into me today because you're goal is to get a PR claim or a miskill, which buys you time.

Literally because you're being so different between these days and the use of hammer is the issue Eden.

[worcej]

Why don't you want the Cop to check Bona while you vote me?

Because I'd rather flip bona and be done with him.

If I had to pick, I'd have the cop scan you instead because at least you put effort in and are consistent, whereas Bona cannot even get his HBvsHR connections right multiple times this game.

[Fluminator]

I’m torn between sheeping chaqa and caring about the game or sheeping flum and emc and disappearing until eod.

I'll be here eod today! Probably! unless I forget

[President Eden]

Why don't you want the Cop to check Bona while you vote me?

Because I'd rather flip bona and be done with him.

If I had to pick, I'd have the cop scan you instead because at least you put effort in and are consistent, whereas Bona cannot even get his HBvsHR connections right multiple times this game.

Do you think I am more or less likely to be mafia than Bona?
If more, why do you want to flip the player less likely to be mafia when a Cop exists? Why are you not maximizing the chance to hit mafia with the flip?
If less, why do you suspect me when you think Bona is likely town and I am less likely to be mafia than Bona?

[worcej]

Why is there this obsession with solving eod 2 because to me it feels milked a bit. So we understand the scum thought process there too?
K, good point that the scumteam collapsed but I am concerned that it may not help us fully in the way we expect. Although if bona is scum it puts us in poe mode, but I think he is prob town so he is a cw then for ghug. I know i am ignoring nuances such as bb and hb weirdness around eod though.

Because EOD2 had multiple scum players under pressure and there was weird vote movements made by HB and BB that lead to suspicion of the Bona slot.

Did they make the weird moves because they had no great options?
Did they make the weird moves because they were just bad or not able to coordinate?
Did they make the weird moves because they were the only scum online around then?

Another reason why EOD2 is more important is because literally EOD3 and EOD4 were boring easy flips of obv!scum BB and HB. EOD1 also improves via VCA as more flips happen, but Bona's flip is the best information flip for that day whereas all you'll learn from my flip is EOD1 was TvT, which scum wanted to begin with..

[Fluminator]

I know everyone is itching for the cop to reveal, but I agree with whoever is the cop that the right play is to lay low for now. Especially if they only have a few townclears right now.
Everyone chill

Why haven't you answered this question:

Fluminator - town
Bonatogether - town
aarodactyl - town
Jamiet - town
Chaqa - town
HR - townish vibes
PR - townish vibes
EMC - townish vibes
Worcej - townish vibes (weakest town read)

I think our pool should be out of these. I don't know how to read any of these people yet, but Bozo's VCA seems the sketchiest at a glance.
Damo
Donny Dude
Bozo
Celaph

What votes do you find suspicious?

I get the feeling Fluminator is trying to get me mis-killed by vaguely implying he is the cop then voting for me without explaining why.

On the contrary, one of the reasons I think you're a good choice is you're unlikely to have a scan on you. I'll clarify that I absolutely do not have a guilty scan on you.
This is entirely POE but I also haven't seen any reason to townread you yet while I have seen some town passion in most of the other players.

I'll dig through your ISO before eod, but something didn't seem quite right.

[worcej]

Why don't you want the Cop to check Bona while you vote me?

Because I'd rather flip bona and be done with him.

If I had to pick, I'd have the cop scan you instead because at least you put effort in and are consistent, whereas Bona cannot even get his HBvsHR connections right multiple times this game.

Do you think I am more or less likely to be mafia than Bona?
If more, why do you want to flip the player less likely to be mafia when a Cop exists? Why are you not maximizing the chance to hit mafia with the flip?
If less, why do you suspect me when you think Bona is likely town and I am less likely to be mafia than Bona?

I think you are less likely to be mafia than Bona because my entire case on you is built up that you're trying to be the deep threat.

So... the rest of your questions are a waste of effort/time.

I think you need to understand, I *think* Bona is town. He is not obv!town to me like damo, Chaqa, HR, and Jamie currently are - this is my 'no fucking way do I flip' list currently. Bona is acting like a shitty town player, but I am after a clearer image of EOD2 more than anything because if I know his alignment, then the other 2 scum players become more narrowed down.

[President Eden]

Because I'd rather flip bona and be done with him.

If I had to pick, I'd have the cop scan you instead because at least you put effort in and are consistent, whereas Bona cannot even get his HBvsHR connections right multiple times this game.

Do you think I am more or less likely to be mafia than Bona?
If more, why do you want to flip the player less likely to be mafia when a Cop exists? Why are you not maximizing the chance to hit mafia with the flip?
If less, why do you suspect me when you think Bona is likely town and I am less likely to be mafia than Bona?

I think you are less likely to be mafia than Bona because my entire case on you is built up that you're trying to be the deep threat.

So... the rest of your questions are a waste of effort/time.

I think you need to understand, I *think* Bona is town. He is not obv!town to me like damo, Chaqa, HR, and Jamie currently are - this is my 'no fucking way do I flip' list currently. Bona is acting like a shitty town player, but I am after a clearer image of EOD2 more than anything because if I know his alignment, then the other 2 scum players become more narrowed down.

So basically you think damo, Chaqa, HR, Jamie, myself, Bona, and yourself [obviously] are town - in varying degrees and not all equal, sure, no issue there - there are two different counterwagons to Bona available right now and you're still voting your town read.

Why not do some theorizing about whether bozo or celaph are mafia here and decide whether they make more sense to vote?

[worcej]

Because I'd rather flip bona and be done with him.

If I had to pick, I'd have the cop scan you instead because at least you put effort in and are consistent, whereas Bona cannot even get his HBvsHR connections right multiple times this game.

Do you think I am more or less likely to be mafia than Bona?
If more, why do you want to flip the player less likely to be mafia when a Cop exists? Why are you not maximizing the chance to hit mafia with the flip?
If less, why do you suspect me when you think Bona is likely town and I am less likely to be mafia than Bona?

I think you are less likely to be mafia than Bona because my entire case on you is built up that you're trying to be the deep threat.

So... the rest of your questions are a waste of effort/time.

I think you need to understand, I *think* Bona is town. He is not obv!town to me like damo, Chaqa, HR, and Jamie currently are - this is my 'no fucking way do I flip' list currently. Bona is acting like a shitty town player, but I am after a clearer image of EOD2 more than anything because if I know his alignment, then the other 2 scum players become more narrowed down.

And before you pounce on this, because you seem to be wanting my flip no matter what, if he flips town then there are 2 scum.

If he flips scum, then there is one. I believe his flip will be town, but like I've ALREADY FUCKING SAID SEVERAL FUCKING TIMES, if he is scum then there for sure is the final scum in HR, Flurga, or bozo.

This makes us closer to winning over any other path that I currently see.

[Chaqa]

I've always disagreed with end votes being scummy. Maybe a bunch of them or piling on is, but one or two end votes don't mean anything, especially at this point. Shading worcej for his end vote is silly.

I didn't think Eden was being super scummy until today. I really don't understand his thought process here.