MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

I don't disregard this possibility and should Bona flip town, that would be the next step in evaluating likelihood of scum.

@Eden:

please learn to read. Thanks. You'd think a future lawyer would be more detail-oriented.

Are you deliberately missing the point or playing dumb?

The grand total of his theorizing about town Bona is "I will look at this idea tomorrow." After Bona is dead. Why not do it now and try to make a case for why it isn't Bona based on that?

Compare that token sentence to the effort he puts into the mafia Bona theory, which he's said he doesn't believe is likely. It's plain as fucking day that this makes no sense.

Just like it was plain as fucking day I made the kill on med scan? lmao

[Donny Dude]

So I defended my teammate ND from my teammates ghug and Hamilton Day 1, then pushed my teammate ghug, then helped vote him out, only to come back around and defend my teammate worcej?

Did I scar this community that hard?

MAybe,
no I think you have been pocketed or you are viewing the game from a chaqian perspective much like maniac which views things differently.

[celaph]

Do I need to fake hardclaim Cop or something to make you do it? Cuz I will. Just go back and reread, I promise you he's the first one to endhammer on Bona and it comes with a full day left in the turn, that he uses the words "scapegoat for mafia" and "likely town" in description of Bona, and that all of his theorizing today assumes Bona is mafia.

Also how did you not reread when you plucked those messages out of the bot

I did go through it. Not once today does he say he thinks Bona is scum. I meant, I will post his posts one by one and show you why you're mistaken. He does a lot of "if bona is scum, then X" or "if bona does indeed flip town, then Y" type stuff, but he does not say he thinks Bona is scum.

In fact, I follow his logic pretty easily.

That's my whole point you dingus. He doesn't have any "if Bona flips town then Y." He's spent no time trying to solve the game under the situation that he thinks is more likely. All his theorizing assumes Bona is mafia. Yet he declares Bona the "scapegoat for mafia" (while apparently finishing the job they wanted to start?) and "likely town." Why is there no theorizing about the world he thinks is more likely? What happens to his effort today if the outcome he thinks is more likely to be true? Why spend all this time on a world he doesn't think is likely, and why the fuck did he lead the endhammering on his own town read with a full day to go?

It would highlight some scum ineptitude and would help me narrow down options for who the last two scum players are.

So who would you infer is town if Bona flips town (thus narrowing your scumpool)?

If Bona flips town, I am more inclined to believe that Jamiet99uk, Chaqa, and aarodactyl are all town since they could've swapped off ghug and onto Bona with relative ease.

I'd include you, but I already town you anyways for other reasons.

[President Eden]

Why would I not just bus ND on Day 1 and make me, ghug, and Hamilton all locktown until late game? You guys know I would do that.

Well for one, the general sentiment was "no one should get credit for ND flipping mafia day 1." The vote was on literally nothing.

But that's irrelevant because as annoyed as I am with you right now, I think you are just town and wrong. I don't think you would shade this push if you knew worcej were mafia.

[Chaqa]

So I defended my teammate ND from my teammates ghug and Hamilton Day 1, then pushed my teammate ghug, then helped vote him out, only to come back around and defend my teammate worcej?

Did I scar this community that hard?

You can't blame us for thinking you might be mafia given that your pushback on our worcej idea is objectively terrible.

"Objectively" is a funny word.

I think worcej's logic makes sense, even if I disagree with his conclusion. Bona is causing the most discord in the town, so solving his alignment would really clear things up, even if you think he's town (as worcej leans toward).

How does that not make sense? Info kills are a thing.

[President Eden]

@celaph Where are his mafia suspects in there? The most important thing isn't to give 3 townreads to people who are generally being townread. It's to find the mafia that need to be voted instead of his townread.

How the fuck am I getting any pushback over the idea that being the first person to endhammer your town read is scummy.

[Chaqa]

So I defended my teammate ND from my teammates ghug and Hamilton Day 1, then pushed my teammate ghug, then helped vote him out, only to come back around and defend my teammate worcej?

Did I scar this community that hard?

MAybe,
no I think you have been pocketed or you are viewing the game from a chaqian perspective much like maniac which views things differently.

In what way has worcej tried to pocket me? I don't think I've interacted with him all game. I defended ND early because I thought scum was trying to make a quick and easy ad hominem kill on him.

[celaph]

I like the pressure with the ##vote Worcej, though I'm not convinced he is the best wagon for EoD.

@worcej, assuming Bona is town, who would you look at to be scum? Why do you think they are scum? Why aren't you pushing them now?

[Chaqa]

Why would I not just bus ND on Day 1 and make me, ghug, and Hamilton all locktown until late game? You guys know I would do that.

Well for one, the general sentiment was "no one should get credit for ND flipping mafia day 1." The vote was on literally nothing.

But that's irrelevant because as annoyed as I am with you right now, I think you are just town and wrong. I don't think you would shade this push if you knew worcej were mafia.

If I was mafia, there's no way I'd have let brain and ghug get caught like that.

[President Eden]

So I defended my teammate ND from my teammates ghug and Hamilton Day 1, then pushed my teammate ghug, then helped vote him out, only to come back around and defend my teammate worcej?

Did I scar this community that hard?

You can't blame us for thinking you might be mafia given that your pushback on our worcej idea is objectively terrible.

"Objectively" is a funny word.

I think worcej's logic makes sense, even if I disagree with his conclusion. Bona is causing the most discord in the town, so solving his alignment would really clear things up, even if you think he's town (as worcej leans toward).

How does that not make sense? Info kills are a thing.

For one, we have a Cop. It's quite clear Bona isn't getting nightkilled at this point.
For two, you can resign yourself that your townread is going to be killed without doing everything in your power by your actions to kill him! You can dig into various interactions and point out weird things in the world where Bona is town. You can figure out who might be the mafia still alive that were trying to scapegoat Bona if you've decided Bona was a fuckin scapegoat!

You can do all those things... or I guess you can be the first endhammer on your town read.

[celaph]

@celaph Where are his mafia suspects in there? The most important thing isn't to give 3 townreads to people who are generally being townread. It's to find the mafia that need to be voted instead of his townread.

How the fuck am I getting any pushback over the idea that being the first person to endhammer your town read is scummy.

Sorry, yes. Cross posted this with my vote. You're argument feels more OMGUS than anything, but I want to hear what he thinks so I've put my vote there.

[Chaqa]

@celaph Where are his mafia suspects in there? The most important thing isn't to give 3 townreads to people who are generally being townread. It's to find the mafia that need to be voted instead of his townread.

How the fuck am I getting any pushback over the idea that being the first person to endhammer your town read is scummy.

I think finding and defending and shouting town reads is actually a better strategy than looking for scum reads. Narrowing a pool of 10 people down to 7 is better than trying to find a single scum in the group.

[President Eden]

@celaph Where are his mafia suspects in there? The most important thing isn't to give 3 townreads to people who are generally being townread. It's to find the mafia that need to be voted instead of his townread.

How the fuck am I getting any pushback over the idea that being the first person to endhammer your town read is scummy.

I think finding and defending and shouting town reads is actually a better strategy than looking for scum reads. Narrowing a pool of 10 people down to 7 is better than trying to find a single scum in the group.

OK that's fair. Same principle, different approaches. So then which of finding, defending, or shouting town reads do these actions fall into:

- Voting your townread
- Voting end with your vote on your townread

[Donny Dude]

So I defended my teammate ND from my teammates ghug and Hamilton Day 1, then pushed my teammate ghug, then helped vote him out, only to come back around and defend my teammate worcej?

Did I scar this community that hard?

MAybe,
no I think you have been pocketed or you are viewing the game from a chaqian perspective much like maniac which views things differently.

In what way has worcej tried to pocket me? I don't think I've interacted with him all game. I defended ND early because I thought scum was trying to make a quick and easy ad hominem kill on him.

K good point there. I think you might be seeing things differently as town and leave it at that.

[Chaqa]

@celaph Where are his mafia suspects in there? The most important thing isn't to give 3 townreads to people who are generally being townread. It's to find the mafia that need to be voted instead of his townread.

How the fuck am I getting any pushback over the idea that being the first person to endhammer your town read is scummy.

I think finding and defending and shouting town reads is actually a better strategy than looking for scum reads. Narrowing a pool of 10 people down to 7 is better than trying to find a single scum in the group.

OK that's fair. Same principle, different approaches. So then which of finding, defending, or shouting town reads do these actions fall into:

- Voting your townread
- Voting end with your vote on your townread

My take is worcej has a slight town read on Bona, but sees the writing on the wall, and much like me, is impatient, so makes a "let's get this over with" type approach.

Hell, I almost jumped in the end wagon with him. I don't think it's scummy.

[Donny Dude]

@celaph Where are his mafia suspects in there? The most important thing isn't to give 3 townreads to people who are generally being townread. It's to find the mafia that need to be voted instead of his townread.

How the fuck am I getting any pushback over the idea that being the first person to endhammer your town read is scummy.

Sorry, yes. Cross posted this with my vote. You're argument feels more OMGUS than anything, but I want to hear what he thinks so I've put my vote there.

Who is omgus who?

[Bonatogether]

If you could all go read through this:

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?us ... t=d5-&g=63

Then you'll see why you're mistaken.

I do think it's strange to hammer vote someone you think is town, but his explanation and logic makes sense, and I had the same thoughts initially. I decided to defend Bona instead only after our Among Us games last night made me have an "a-ha!" moment on him.

it was that darn weapons thing wasn't it

[bozotheclown]

Worcej is like the most obvious town. you guys are being real dumb again this game

How is he obvious town chaqa?

Ghug and Hamilton were trying to railroad him (when he was ND) on Day 1.

Doesn't seem super likely they would do this to a teammate, especially when they didn't move over to Maniac (though brain and likely 1-2 other scum did).

Why would I not just bus ND on Day 1 and make me, ghug, and Hamilton all locktown until late game? You guys know I would do that.

This seems contradictory. Why do you think ghug and Hamilton would not keep bussing ND through EOD if you think ND flipping scum would get them so much town credit? Don't you think moving to Maniac (like brainbomb did) would implicate them later if ND flipped scum?

[Chaqa]

How is he obvious town chaqa?

Ghug and Hamilton were trying to railroad him (when he was ND) on Day 1.

Doesn't seem super likely they would do this to a teammate, especially when they didn't move over to Maniac (though brain and likely 1-2 other scum did).

Why would I not just bus ND on Day 1 and make me, ghug, and Hamilton all locktown until late game? You guys know I would do that.

This seems contradictory. Why do you think ghug and Hamilton would not keep bussing ND through EOD if you think ND flipping scum would get them so much town credit? Don't you think moving to Maniac (like brainbomb did) would implicate them later if ND flipped scum?

This was in relation to if I were scum with worcej, specifically.

My take is ghug and Hamilton didn't move because they didn't care who died.

[Chaqa]

Ghug and Hamilton were trying to railroad him (when he was ND) on Day 1.

Doesn't seem super likely they would do this to a teammate, especially when they didn't move over to Maniac (though brain and likely 1-2 other scum did).

Why would I not just bus ND on Day 1 and make me, ghug, and Hamilton all locktown until late game? You guys know I would do that.

This seems contradictory. Why do you think ghug and Hamilton would not keep bussing ND through EOD if you think ND flipping scum would get them so much town credit? Don't you think moving to Maniac (like brainbomb did) would implicate them later if ND flipped scum?

This was in relation to if I were scum with worcej, specifically.

My take is ghug and Hamilton didn't move because they didn't care who died.

Though, the consideration for that theory (that NDworcej was pushed on Day 1 for easy cred) is why I consider worcej more likely to be scum than Bona, overall, though both are still more on the town side of my reads.