MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[President Eden]

I say we try to consolidate on a wagon by 4 hours from EoD.

Cop has to claim and steer us away by 2 hours from EoD.

Any claims coming in the last hour are fake and will be summarily executed.

Following this logic, wouldn't it be best to consolidate on someone who was fairly likely to be scanned?

I had voted Bona at one point today with the specific reasoning that Bona was highly likely to be scanned, and if Bona were guilty then the Cop wouldn't need to claim, but if Bona were innocent, the Cop would.

[aarodactyl]

I say we try to consolidate on a wagon by 4 hours from EoD.

Cop has to claim and steer us away by 2 hours from EoD.

Any claims coming in the last hour are fake and will be summarily executed.

Is this just a ploy to make it so people can't damo?

No, just trying to give some structure to things so that we don't accidentally mis-kill a PR or an inno scan.

I guess that's fair, but I feel like by limiting EOD movement, we lose a lot of voting information. I could be wrong about this though

[Chaqa]

I say we try to consolidate on a wagon by 4 hours from EoD.

Cop has to claim and steer us away by 2 hours from EoD.

Any claims coming in the last hour are fake and will be summarily executed.

Following this logic, wouldn't it be best to consolidate on someone who was fairly likely to be scanned?

I had voted Bona at one point today with the specific reasoning that Bona was highly likely to be scanned, and if Bona were guilty then the Cop wouldn't need to claim, but if Bona were innocent, the Cop would.

Ideally, we would NOT make the cop reveal if we follow this plan.

[Chaqa]

Is this just a ploy to make it so people can't damo?

No, just trying to give some structure to things so that we don't accidentally mis-kill a PR or an inno scan.

I guess that's fair, but I feel like by limiting EOD movement, we lose a lot of voting information. I could be wrong about this though

I think we're past the point of vote movement being super useful.

We've crossed or will soon cross the point from VCA and read analysis to PoE and logical analysis.

[President Eden]

I say we try to consolidate on a wagon by 4 hours from EoD.

Cop has to claim and steer us away by 2 hours from EoD.

Any claims coming in the last hour are fake and will be summarily executed.

Following this logic, wouldn't it be best to consolidate on someone who was fairly likely to be scanned?

I had voted Bona at one point today with the specific reasoning that Bona was highly likely to be scanned, and if Bona were guilty then the Cop wouldn't need to claim, but if Bona were innocent, the Cop would.

Ideally, we would NOT make the cop reveal if we follow this plan.

Yea nvm you're right.

So vote people who HAVEN'T likely been scanned. Got it. That means probably not Bona but all the other wagons are legit.

[Chaqa]

Following this logic, wouldn't it be best to consolidate on someone who was fairly likely to be scanned?

I had voted Bona at one point today with the specific reasoning that Bona was highly likely to be scanned, and if Bona were guilty then the Cop wouldn't need to claim, but if Bona were innocent, the Cop would.

Ideally, we would NOT make the cop reveal if we follow this plan.

Yea nvm you're right.

So vote people who HAVEN'T likely been scanned. Got it. That means probably not Bona but all the other wagons are legit.

If we're going this route, Donny or celaph seem most likely to not have been scanned. But I like the Bozo wagon too.

[damo666]

I say we try to consolidate on a wagon by 4 hours from EoD.

Cop has to claim and steer us away by 2 hours from EoD.

Any claims coming in the last hour are fake and will be summarily executed.

I would follow the advice of a last hour hardclaim. Why wouldn't you? Scum aren't going to suicide and halve their team so very little chance of a fake or counter claim.

[Fluminator]

Yes, any claim under pressure of daykill will be treated as a hardclaim imo.

[Fluminator]

Yes, any claim under pressure of daykill will be treated as a hardclaim imo.

And again, if they claim cop, and you are a real cop who sees it, let it happen because it will become very clear if they don't get nightkilled.
Because they don't have a roleblocker.

I'm still cracking up that their godfather hardclaimed cop to get their roleblocker killed.

[damo666]

Yes, any claim under pressure of daykill will be treated as a hardclaim imo.

I am saying any claim (not hypo or suggested) should be treated as valid. The claimant's wagon status is irrelevant. Well, actually, if a scum is runaway wagon this is the only situation you ight see a fakeclaim.

[damo666]

Yes, any claim under pressure of daykill will be treated as a hardclaim imo.

And again, if they claim cop, and you are a real cop who sees it, let it happen because it will become very clear if they don't get nightkilled.
Because they don't have a roleblocker.

I'm still cracking up that their godfather hardclaimed cop to get their roleblocker killed.

depends whether real cop can prevent a miskill

[celaph]

@donny I reread everyone and have some changes related to my earlier list. My problem is that I see reasons to townread almost everyone to some degree. One consequence of that is I think I can post decent defenses for Bona, Bozo, and myself. Of these I think Bona makes for the best kill as I have the easiest time building a scum Bona narrative.

<reads>

Do you scum read anyone? Because you’re not in any of your reads

Did you read the part at the beginning? Not really. That's my problem. You obviously disagree on Bozo. What is your scum bozo argument?

[Hellenic Riot]

Before it was very rare for a VT to lie about being a PR. It was considered very anti-town and a risk to outing PRs. And if you were found out lying, you would almost always get daykilled.
To hide the power roles it was basically "never talk about it" instead of "half the players pretend to be it"

I think Hellenic Riot was correct earlier in his assessment that pretending to be the PR is generally wrong.
The gambits in M62 were interesting to me because they were "too audacious to be mafia" -- not objectively, but in the context of what people expected from mafia that game.
We don't know yet whether these have been good, but informational roles are a bit tougher because the mafia can falsify some claims (e.g. if you clear a mafia or guilty a town). I tend to think the gambits here have worked to keep mafia from killing the real Cop, but it's hard to know with the info we have right now.

If I was making a blanket statement that pretending to be a PR is wrong then that'd just make me a gigantic hypocrite. There's a massive difference between what I did last game (pretending to be a protective PR) and hyposcans for an investigative PR, though. For one - There was absolutely no way that the scum could know for a fact that I was faking it, whereas hyposcans absolutely *can* give that away immediately due to the potential of innoing a scum. Narrowing down the cop, speculating about the cop, asking the cop to out... These are all horrendously anti-town actions that make me want to vote all you morons who are doing it... If the cop has info he needs to out with, he'll out with it. If not, he stays silent. The. Fucking. End.

The cop outing with just a couple of innos for no reason (or even worse, a guilty and an inno) not only blows our chances of an autowin later but also wrecks our wagon analysis and reduces the amount of info we get from voting (Has nobody learnt from last game there?). It's lazy play that would reduce our chances of winning, not improve them.


Now, you could also read my statement here as an endorsement of pretending to be the Doctor, which is significantly *less* stupid than hyposcans and which last game showed can be pretty successful, but you need a combination of having a reputation for being egotistical combined with some high-tier acting to convince a scum team that you're actually the Doctor who's decided to out for no reason (something which both myself and Balki met both criteria for, but which most people probably don't). And again, you have to weigh up risk and reward: While there's someone more important for the real doctor to save (IE the cop is alive), there is absolutely no benefit and a huge deal of risk in claiming doc. If/When the cop is dead, you can all have carte blance to start pretending to be the Doc though


Also, all you fuckers who are townreading Bona for self voting, remember that... Hamilton Brian already did that exact ploy. I can absolutely believe someone like brainbomb would tell his noob teammates that that's a great ploy to reduce pressure on them, and then himself be the person who pressured HB for it before easing off as soon as he could.

[Hellenic Riot]

I say we try to consolidate on a wagon by 4 hours from EoD.

Cop has to claim and steer us away by 2 hours from EoD.

Any claims coming in the last hour are fake and will be summarily executed.

Following this logic, wouldn't it be best to consolidate on someone who was fairly likely to be scanned?

I had voted Bona at one point today with the specific reasoning that Bona was highly likely to be scanned, and if Bona were guilty then the Cop wouldn't need to claim, but if Bona were innocent, the Cop would.

This is imbecilic logic that just provides the scum with an excellent excuse to not have to justify their votes. We have no idea who the cop scanned. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

[celaph]

##VOTE bozotheclown

What in your mind changed between your last vote and this?

[celaph]

Yes, any claim under pressure of daykill will be treated as a hardclaim imo.

I am saying any claim (not hypo or suggested) should be treated as valid. The claimant's wagon status is irrelevant. Well, actually, if a scum is runaway wagon this is the only situation you ight see a fakeclaim.

I think even then we switch wagons though. If they're lying they will be outed as such relatively soon.

[damo666]

Yes, any claim under pressure of daykill will be treated as a hardclaim imo.

I am saying any claim (not hypo or suggested) should be treated as valid. The claimant's wagon status is irrelevant. Well, actually, if a scum is runaway wagon this is the only situation you ight see a fakeclaim.

I think even then we switch wagons though. If they're lying they will be outed as such relatively soon.

Yes, obviously.

Basically what I was geting at is we should totally ignore Chaqa's 'ignore/punish a last hour claim' proposal.

[Chaqa]

- snipped -

Also, all you fuckers who are townreading Bona for self voting, remember that... Hamilton Brian already did that exact ploy. I can absolutely believe someone like brainbomb would tell his noob teammates that that's a great ploy to reduce pressure on them, and then himself be the person who pressured HB for it before easing off as soon as he could.

I don't know about Eden, but we played two or three games of Among Us last night where Bona was innocent but got blamed for kills, and his reactions were VERY similar to how he is reacting here.

That's part of the reason I think he's a bad kill, as well as logically it making little sense for him to be scum based on Day 2.

[Chaqa]

I am saying any claim (not hypo or suggested) should be treated as valid. The claimant's wagon status is irrelevant. Well, actually, if a scum is runaway wagon this is the only situation you ight see a fakeclaim.

I think even then we switch wagons though. If they're lying they will be outed as such relatively soon.

Yes, obviously.

Basically what I was geting at is we should totally ignore Chaqa's 'ignore/punish a last hour claim' proposal.

That was contingent on the cop having outed already.

I.E. any claims in the last hour, AFTER the cop has outed and called a shot with 2 hours to go, are to be believed fake.

[President Eden]

- snipped -

Also, all you fuckers who are townreading Bona for self voting, remember that... Hamilton Brian already did that exact ploy. I can absolutely believe someone like brainbomb would tell his noob teammates that that's a great ploy to reduce pressure on them, and then himself be the person who pressured HB for it before easing off as soon as he could.

I don't know about Eden, but we played two or three games of Among Us last night where Bona was innocent but got blamed for kills, and his reactions were VERY similar to how he is reacting here.

That's part of the reason I think he's a bad kill, as well as logically it making little sense for him to be scum based on Day 2.

He seems more annoyed here, but that cuts toward town.
That said, I'm wondering how much stock we should really be putting into this stuff - split-second reactions are a bit different from 48 hour phase games even if the pressure is the same.