MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[aarodactyl]

Wait you guys actually think the Doctor saved Hamilton Brian last night?

It's all WIFOM at this point, right?

[President Eden]

Wait you guys actually think the Doctor saved Hamilton Brian last night?

It's all WIFOM at this point, right?

It'd be crazy for Doc to have saved HB.

The more we talk about it the more confused the mafia will be, and the more likely they will mess up by [REDACTED] instead of making the proper play which is [REDACTED].

[Fluminator]

OK so cop not going to disclose until close to EON.

What should we talk about?

We should figure out if there's any compelling reason not to shoot emc and Fluminator next.

I'll get to it soon. In my defense I'm in this massive 100 player circle game which is basically survivor on steroids where we kill someone every day. I'm currently in the top 85 and this game is insane and the people in it are insane.

[Fluminator]

Also fwiw, I'm pretty sure EMC is town.

[bozotheclown]

We should figure out if there's any compelling reason not to shoot emc and Fluminator next.

In the absence of copscan info why these two any more than Bozo or HR?

I think they're more likely to be mafia. emc's story about EOD doesn't cut it for me at all. The way Durga shaded me for pushing ghug was horrendous and comes from mafia most of the time IMO. I hate that I'm not suspecting Fluminator for things that he personally did, but them's the breaks when you sub into mafia slot.

bozo is a decent shot and the one I think I'd kill next if we flipped my entire called shot lineup and we didn't win the game.

I guess from VCA that it could still be HR. Maybe I've been unconsciously giving him more leeway than I should because we've ended up in very similar places throughout the game. I'm almost positive at this point that HR was shading two town counterwagons on day 1, though, and pushing for a kill on someone in my mafia team. And he's been making his best analytical posts early at night, which is a bit of an odd time for mafia to be shining, since they're going to be drawn to their QuickTopic.
I realize as I type this out that none of it truly eliminates HR from contention, but it does bump him down below a lot of other shots for me. I imagine this is probably how a lot of y'all feel about me as well.

I think you are both looking in the wrong place. brainbomb and ghug ending on Bonatogether at EOD after voting for each other probably means there were no scum already voting for Bonatogether. They likely were either already bussing ghug, or got stuck off the wagons, not wanting to vote for ghug but not wanting to look like they were saving him.

[aarodactyl]

OK so cop not going to disclose until close to EON.

What should we talk about?

We should figure out if there's any compelling reason not to shoot emc and Fluminator next.

I'll get to it soon. In my defense I'm in this massive 100 player circle game which is basically survivor on steroids where we kill someone every day. I'm currently in the top 85 and this game is insane and the people in it are insane.

If I sheep you for this round, can you tell us more about this game?

[Hamilton Brian]

Also fwiw, I'm pretty sure EMC is town.

Pretty sure with...?

[Fluminator]

We should figure out if there's any compelling reason not to shoot emc and Fluminator next.

I'll get to it soon. In my defense I'm in this massive 100 player circle game which is basically survivor on steroids where we kill someone every day. I'm currently in the top 85 and this game is insane and the people in it are insane.

If I sheep you for this round, can you tell us more about this game?

Lol, there's a bunch of tryhards and there's multiple discord/skype factions and groups warring with each other. I'm the leader of arguably the most influential discord alliance but we just took a major hit and lost one of our key organizers, and I was caught editing a screencap of someone making them say something bad in an attempt to bury them (The screencap showed the person who took it was listening to spotify (ie me) so our double agent distributing the leaks couldn't have taken it breaking apart our story AND the guy I was trying to bury is a psycho and screencapped a bunch of things to blackmail people and he happened to have part of the conversation I edited saved away to cover himself.)
I don't want to go too in depth in our plans for future rounds because there's a nonzero chance someone will find this post. The fact you're asking me this makes me wonder if you're in this game and trying to get info tbh. These people are just that crazy.

[bozotheclown]

I just want to point out that although my final vote was in the wrong place, the whole ghug/brainbomb thing should basically lock clear me as town.

It's quite clear from brainbomb's hard claim Cop that brainbomb had no interest in being the patsy to save ghug, and that ghug's push could not have been preplanned or coordinated as an attempt to split the vote and save ghug, as I had previously thought. Plus, brainbomb was the more valuable power role. Rather, it's clear that ghug was trying to put distance between himself and brainbomb.

When I actually pulled the trigger on voting, ghug felt compelled to follow. That put enough pressure on the Godfather for him to effectively claim mafia by hard claiming Cop.

If I were mafia, I'd have known what was going on with ghug trying to distance. Why pile onto brainbomb and effectively out him? Why not just kill Bona instead and whip votes that way?

Maybe you were both distancing from brainbomb, even with 2 votes it does not seem likely brainbomb would be at much risk there. brainbomb's cop claim made no sense there to save himself, since he was the third wagon, was 2 votes behind ghug, and ghug was one of his voters.

[aarodactyl]

I'll get to it soon. In my defense I'm in this massive 100 player circle game which is basically survivor on steroids where we kill someone every day. I'm currently in the top 85 and this game is insane and the people in it are insane.

If I sheep you for this round, can you tell us more about this game?

Lol, there's a bunch of tryhards and there's multiple discord/skype factions and groups warring with each other. I'm the leader of arguably the most influential discord alliance but we just took a major hit and lost one of our key organizers, and I was caught editing a screencap of someone making them say something bad in an attempt to bury them (The screencap showed the person who took it was listening to spotify (ie me) so our double agent distributing the leaks couldn't have taken it breaking apart our story AND the guy I was trying to bury is a psycho and screencapped a bunch of things to blackmail people and he happened to have part of the conversation I edited saved away to cover himself.)
I don't want to go too in depth in our plans for future rounds because there's a nonzero chance someone will find this post. The fact you're asking me this makes me wonder if you're in this game and trying to get info tbh. These people are just that crazy.

Ok, let me know more about it once the game is over. It sounds wild.

[bozotheclown]

do you think that there were 3 scum on the block d2

and do you think i'd bus brain when we just nailed ghug

You apparently think I would

All the scum except perhaps BunnyGo were bussing brainbomb.

[President Eden]

I think you are both looking in the wrong place. brainbomb and ghug ending on Bonatogether at EOD after voting for each other probably means there were no scum already voting for Bonatogether. They likely were either already bussing ghug, or got stuck off the wagons, not wanting to vote for ghug but not wanting to look like they were saving him.

Can you spell out the logic behind your thinking for me? I don't see how it follows that there couldn't just have been mafia already on Bonatogether before the ghug/brainbomb double-bus.

In particular, I would like you to explain how this idea squares with your previous called shot of the team:

With all of these strange connections between ghug, PE, brainbomb, and BunnyGo, I think they could all be scum together. Also, with the potential mutual bussing between ghug and ND/worcej, as well as the reasons I previously suspected the ND/worcej slot, I think the remaining scum are worcej, PE, brainbomb, and BunnyGo.

I don't think any information has come to light that should invalidate this team from your perspective.

[President Eden]

I just want to point out that although my final vote was in the wrong place, the whole ghug/brainbomb thing should basically lock clear me as town.

It's quite clear from brainbomb's hard claim Cop that brainbomb had no interest in being the patsy to save ghug, and that ghug's push could not have been preplanned or coordinated as an attempt to split the vote and save ghug, as I had previously thought. Plus, brainbomb was the more valuable power role. Rather, it's clear that ghug was trying to put distance between himself and brainbomb.

When I actually pulled the trigger on voting, ghug felt compelled to follow. That put enough pressure on the Godfather for him to effectively claim mafia by hard claiming Cop.

If I were mafia, I'd have known what was going on with ghug trying to distance. Why pile onto brainbomb and effectively out him? Why not just kill Bona instead and whip votes that way?

Maybe you were both distancing from brainbomb, even with 2 votes it does not seem likely brainbomb would be at much risk there. brainbomb's cop claim made no sense there to save himself, since he was the third wagon, was 2 votes behind ghug, and ghug was one of his voters.

If we were all going to end up on Bonatogether anyway, what's the point of getting brainbomb to out himself as mafia along the way?

[President Eden]

and do you think i'd bus brain when we just nailed ghug

You apparently think I would

All the scum except perhaps BunnyGo were bussing brainbomb.

So is damo now mafia? Why were you just talking to us like we were town trying to figure things out

[bozotheclown]

I think you are both looking in the wrong place. brainbomb and ghug ending on Bonatogether at EOD after voting for each other probably means there were no scum already voting for Bonatogether. They likely were either already bussing ghug, or got stuck off the wagons, not wanting to vote for ghug but not wanting to look like they were saving him.

Can you spell out the logic behind your thinking for me? I don't see how it follows that there couldn't just have been mafia already on Bonatogether before the ghug/brainbomb double-bus.

In particular, I would like you to explain how this idea squares with your previous called shot of the team:

With all of these strange connections between ghug, PE, brainbomb, and BunnyGo, I think they could all be scum together. Also, with the potential mutual bussing between ghug and ND/worcej, as well as the reasons I previously suspected the ND/worcej slot, I think the remaining scum are worcej, PE, brainbomb, and BunnyGo.

I don't think any information has come to light that should invalidate this team from your perspective.

Even if ghug survived D2, he was not likely to survive much longer assuming Bonatogether flipped town (which seems likely would have been the case), so I think brainbomb voting for Bonatogether there indicates the mafia votes were spread out (ghug did not have much choice, and brainbomb knew ghug would eventually end on Bonatogether).

As for my previous guess at the scum team, maybe you thought you had distanced enough from ghug to jump on Bonatogether at the end as well with 2 teammates already bussing ghug, or maybe my guess was wrong.

There may be another scum on Bonatogether, but I think at least 2 and maybe 3 were bussing ghug or off wagon.

[bozotheclown]

I just want to point out that although my final vote was in the wrong place, the whole ghug/brainbomb thing should basically lock clear me as town.

It's quite clear from brainbomb's hard claim Cop that brainbomb had no interest in being the patsy to save ghug, and that ghug's push could not have been preplanned or coordinated as an attempt to split the vote and save ghug, as I had previously thought. Plus, brainbomb was the more valuable power role. Rather, it's clear that ghug was trying to put distance between himself and brainbomb.

When I actually pulled the trigger on voting, ghug felt compelled to follow. That put enough pressure on the Godfather for him to effectively claim mafia by hard claiming Cop.

If I were mafia, I'd have known what was going on with ghug trying to distance. Why pile onto brainbomb and effectively out him? Why not just kill Bona instead and whip votes that way?

Maybe you were both distancing from brainbomb, even with 2 votes it does not seem likely brainbomb would be at much risk there. brainbomb's cop claim made no sense there to save himself, since he was the third wagon, was 2 votes behind ghug, and ghug was one of his voters.

If we were all going to end up on Bonatogether anyway, what's the point of getting brainbomb to out himself as mafia along the way?

I assume that was not part of the plan whoever is scum. Why didn't ghug and brainbomb just vote for Bonatogether and not put brainbomb at risk?

[bozotheclown]

You apparently think I would

All the scum except perhaps BunnyGo were bussing brainbomb.

So is damo now mafia? Why were you just talking to us like we were town trying to figure things out

Why did you bring up damo in response to this? When I say all the scum were bussing brainbomb, I obviously do not mean everyone who voted for brainbomb are scum. I do not know who the scum are, maybe you and damo both are, maybe not, but my response to you was meant for everyone to read.

[President Eden]

Maybe you were both distancing from brainbomb, even with 2 votes it does not seem likely brainbomb would be at much risk there. brainbomb's cop claim made no sense there to save himself, since he was the third wagon, was 2 votes behind ghug, and ghug was one of his voters.

If we were all going to end up on Bonatogether anyway, what's the point of getting brainbomb to out himself as mafia along the way?

I assume that was not part of the plan whoever is scum. Why didn't ghug and brainbomb just vote for Bonatogether and not put brainbomb at risk?

Exactly my point. I called ghug's bluff and threatened the more valuable mafia role, a player who was not under much suspicion. I scared him so hard that he basically said "OK fine you caught me, but kill me tomorrow." Why do that as mafia just to end up voting with both my teammates on the counterwagon that was already there?

Why was this apparently very high posting volume mafia team even in this situation in the first place? Why was it apparently so impotent at whipping votes that it couldn't consolidate on Bona when, under your theory, town (namely rivera and HR) had already given the reasoning for people to follow?

I'm struggling to follow your reasoning here bozo, and ordinarily I wouldn't mind that, but your reasoning is being used to support the conclusion that we shouldn't be looking at the Bona voters first, when virtually all of the remaining unknowns FMPOV are on that wagon -- including you. I get the feeling you have a motive besides pure logic forcing you toward this conclusion and that you are trying to make a predetermined narrative fit the facts rather than letting the facts set the narrative.

[bozotheclown]

emc and Donny were both on at EOD and chose to stay off of the main wagons. With ghug and Bonatogether close for so long and brainbomb becoming the third wagon, they may have been caught between helping DK a teammate and looking like they were saving their teammates. celaph was not on at EOD and is probably town based on D1, and Hamilton probably had a reason for his off wagon vote.

Possible ghug bussers:

worcej: Voted for ghug all day but did not strongly advocate for ghug's DK, and hardly at all the second half of D2.

Jamie: His ghug scum slip argument was questionable, I still think ghug was well aware that no one had character names.

Chaqa: His push on ghug looked good, but he proved in M62 he is willing to bus at critical times for town credit.

aarodactyl: His interaction with ghug did not look like 2 scum and his vote for ghug was important to getting ghug DKed.

Bonatogether: Almost certainly town based on brainbomb's cop claim, which would have been completely pointless if a scum was sure to be the DK.

BunnyGo: Possible distancing from ghug D1, voting Bonatogether first after brainbomb's cop claim before quickly moving to ghug was odd and his explanation did not make much sense.

damo: Followed ghug on to brainbomb even though he was voting for ghug.

[bozotheclown]

If we were all going to end up on Bonatogether anyway, what's the point of getting brainbomb to out himself as mafia along the way?

I assume that was not part of the plan whoever is scum. Why didn't ghug and brainbomb just vote for Bonatogether and not put brainbomb at risk?

Exactly my point. I called ghug's bluff and threatened the more valuable mafia role, a player who was not under much suspicion. I scared him so hard that he basically said "OK fine you caught me, but kill me tomorrow." Why do that as mafia just to end up voting with both my teammates on the counterwagon that was already there?

Why was this apparently very high posting volume mafia team even in this situation in the first place? Why was it apparently so impotent at whipping votes that it couldn't consolidate on Bona when, under your theory, town (namely rivera and HR) had already given the reasoning for people to follow?

I'm struggling to follow your reasoning here bozo, and ordinarily I wouldn't mind that, but your reasoning is being used to support the conclusion that we shouldn't be looking at the Bona voters first, when virtually all of the remaining unknowns FMPOV are on that wagon -- including you. I get the feeling you have a motive besides pure logic forcing you toward this conclusion and that you are trying to make a predetermined narrative fit the facts rather than letting the facts set the narrative.

From the actions of ghug and brainbomb we know the scum were bussing and distancing to the point where they were risking a scum DK, I think it would be more incompetent for the mafia to have not managed to DK Bonatogether if the other scum were sitting on Bonatogether. That also would mean ghug and brainbomb were risking their whole team by their EOD move to Bonatogether.

I also disagree that all of the unknowns are on the Bonatogether wagon, I think there are unknowns on both wagons and off the D2 wagons.