MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[worcej]

I am intrigued on why we are end hammering BB.

Like, he is a fine wagon, but why hammer?

[aarodactyl]

I am intrigued on why we are end hammering BB.

Like, he is a fine wagon, but why hammer?

It’s such a clear wagon that anything else just helps scum tonight imo

[President Eden]

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BunnyGo
---

BunnyGo/ghug fight over flavor names would be insane scum theater. I already had BunnyGo as probable town for the manner in which he voted ghug -- the reasoning was silly on its face, but he still cast a decisive vote for ghug -- and now that I am remembering that whole blowup, I just don't think BG is it this time. I have a ton of respect for his mafia game and I think this is potentially in his range, but it's just too low probability for me to take seriously at this time.

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damo666
---

##Vote ghug

worcej wagon getting too big for your liking?

Good post from damo, brainbomb never replies. Not sure what the mafia motivation in pointing out a teammate switching votes onto another teammate would be.

I'm really close to lumping damo into my town group. I think that logically I should, but my gut is holding me back from making his lil name in my Word doc green, and I can't really explain why.

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Donny Dude
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Emc is acting really weird about maniac.
First mention on a ctr f on maniac
Someone wonderfully bot-checking like bozo should prolly double check this, but does Maniac post with more formatting issues as scum compared to town?
I have post-format readability as a meta thing on him (more rambling and unreadable in a blob, scum; passing as any other player and shorter, town), but not sure if that was confabulated coincidental trait or not, due to adapting to forum.

Second mention seems concerned about how he is perceived.

The fuck, I was going to dump a vote on Maniac too but y'all popped out of nowhere to vote him, so now if I also do it's weird lol.

Then votes for maniac saying who cares in reference to previous post.
Moves onto HR, but then move back to maniac.

##vote Maniac, HR vote has done what it was meant to do lol.

next post
I feel like sticking with the Maniac vote because I want to know if the formatting thing is actually valid or not, lol

What was voting for HR supposed to do Emc?

This is longer than any post Donny made as scum.

I am not sure about that ghug
Those seth posts were pretty long also as I recall in M60. Though that was a mess to read.

I don't think Donny shades his teammate trying to give him towncred here on day 1.

I'm told Donny is relatively new to our play group. If he's also relatively new to the game, there's a generalized and minor tell that suggests he's town -- a LOT of his posts are interacting with ghug in some way, whether directly conversing with ghug or talking about ghug. Newer mafia players have an unconscious tendency to avoid interacting with their teammates, because they tend to be fundamentally reactive in mindset, which leads them to interact predominantly with town, particularly those sussing other mafia or those driving discussion. Donny has a lot of interaction with ghug, and it's fairly natural too, not stiff like you'd expect from newer mafia interacting with a teammate.
This goes out the window if Donny is simply new to us and not new in general, but I like what I'm seeing anyway.

There's also just a lot of solving effort in Donny's ISO generally. Donny Dude is a good dude this game.

---
e.m.c^42
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[Bona is n]ot townread but still town-sided on this half of null, enough that I'd prefer another at the moment. I think other people are reading his excessive self-aware posts as scummy whereas I sort of see it as a towny thing to do, especially as a newish player.

This is ~20 mins before EOD2.

I'm still townreading [brainbomb] lol. The comments on Donny have rather followed along what I am thinking close enough that I do think he's town enough.

~10 mins before EOD2.

No meaningful mention of ghug in the last day before EOD2. Voted ghug to pressure with a day to go. Found his way off ghug onto Jamie, which was never going to happen, less than 2 hours before EOD2, and stayed there til the end.

Of course I stayed, didn't want to accidentally tie, and knowing me I probably would've switched to Bona anyway so hindsight says it's better that I didn't lol.

???????????

Shouldn't emc have voted for ghug here? emc was townreading Bona most of the game and only moved him down to "townside of null" by 20 mins before EOD2. brain was a strong townread for emc, and ghug tried to yeetwagon brain. ghug should have been the vote.

You figure this actually should give town points, because why pass up bus credit? But:
(1) ghug being a mafia power role skews the equation. emc is inherently going to hesitate to throw the Roleblocker out in a way he won't do with a Goon. Especially if brainbomb is a Goon, emc is in a tough spot where his reads suggest he should kill ghug but his incentives point toward killing brainbomb or Bona.
(2) It's established that emc was relying on the bot, which crashed. emc legitimately might not have known where ghug vs brainbomb stood or what his teammates were doing.

I don't really have much else to say right now though. Unfortunately still townlean brain on gut but don't have a solid reason, so it's probably wrong, and y'all hard scum him lmao

This is also strange, but maybe emc feels locked into his previous strong townread of brainbomb. I don't know what to make of this post because mafia should have had a clear idea by now of what to do with brainbomb. emc is hedging at a point in time where the mafia really should have made up their minds on how to proceed. But maybe they simply hadn't; they probably didn't expect ghug to die OR brainbomb to get implicated in the process, and maybe 24 hours wasn't enough time to get on the same page. I expect brainbomb was probably legitimately mad at ghug for "forcing his hand."

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celaph
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I lack passion for what im advocating. because it isnt sexy. I wanna catch ghug and durga types not emc and yoyo

I'm liking this from bb, though it will reflect poorly if a lot of scum are active D1/D2.

Not sure what to make of this, or if anything should be made of this, I just found it interesting. My gut says that celaph doesn't give a teammate town credit for this. brainbomb's post was a bit on the nose given that he likely named two teammates as people he wanted to catch and might have named a third as someone he didn't. I think celaph probably wants to stay away from this comment.

The wagons were tied with like 3 minutes left.

I more mean there wasn't much reason to pile on because he ended up by 3.

This feels like revisionist history.
With <1 minute left,
Jamie broke the tie giving ND the lead. Later that minute, PE and EMC retied and broke the tie giving Maniac the lead. My vote to ensure there was no tie came just moments before Tom called the end of the day.

Both of the wagons were leading during the final minute. How is that not a close ending to a day? People off the main wagons absolutely had the ability to contribute and change the final vote. That last point should be obvious because the three votes that last minute decided the kill.

Really hard to imagine a teammate calling out ghug this specifically to shade ghug's effort to set a pro-mafia narrative just a few hours into Night 1.

I know that there has been a lot more discussion on ghug since then, but his reads list shows very little evidence that ghug believes strongly in these kills. Telling aaro to do certain things or else get tunneled reek of similar levels of apathy. Rather unfortunately, I don't think this is scum indicative for ghug. Not sure I would be giving him as many town points for it as Durga was later on.

Underlined the part that I loved about this post. The entire post is good and y'all should read it to get a better understanding of why I've been giving celaph town credit for behavior. But this specifically... celaph makes a case for why ghug is suspicious, fairly (if incorrectly) notes that meta considerations cut against it, but calls it unfortunate that they do. celaph clearly wants to kill ghug but feels held back by a meta read. If celaph were mafia then either this post doesn't happen or celaph finds a reason to push it for town credit; given that ghug was a power role, it's probably the former.

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worcej
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yea EMC has had a ton of pop ins but none of them have really done anything whatsoever

Is this AI to you for EMC?

I have yet to really see him not do this.

I can't ironclad justify this but I just don't think mafia worcej makes this post if brainbomb and emc are both mafia. This post pressures brainbomb to be more committal in a read on emc. Mafia probably shouldn't be forcing their teammates' hands in reading other teammates, they need flexibility.
Come to think of it, this is probably true irrespective of emc's alignment, but it's more likely to happen if emc is town than if emc is mafia.

Woah woah woah!

The day is still young... he could become a major one still.

this last bit is seemingly out of nowhere. did not know you thought I was murkbait

I wouldn't consider you murkbait - just I wouldn't congratulate you for not being a wagon yet on D2 when D2 is still ~30 hours of time.

This is kind of crazy in hindsight lol. IDK what to make of it.

worcej isn't new to us or the game, but still has an obscene amount of interaction with other mafia while still killing one off. Don't think this comes from mafia.

I also just don't think ghug and Durga memed so hard that they bused ND just because they don't like him. They sure aren't going to get any credit from anyone if worcej is mafia.

[President Eden]

##CALL GM: If we hammer somebody at an off-schedule time (e.g. 7am CST instead of the current deadline 7pm CST), what happens to deadlines for the rest of the game?

The night is extended to account for this.

##end

Tilt, we don't get the night info any earlier then.

This actually changed my mind though, once Tom confirms this or I find it in the OP that I forgot to read all the way through I'll vote to end. Extra time to reconsider if I'm wrong about brainbomb is nice.

[aarodactyl]

##CALL GM: If we hammer somebody at an off-schedule time (e.g. 7am CST instead of the current deadline 7pm CST), what happens to deadlines for the rest of the game?

The night is extended to account for this.

##end

Tilt, we don't get the night info any earlier then.

This actually changed my mind though, once Tom confirms this or I find it in the OP that I forgot to read all the way through I'll vote to end. Extra time to reconsider if I'm wrong about brainbomb is nice.

My guess is that if we hammer in the first 24 hours of a day, we still end the night a day earlier than we would have.

[Chaqa]

##CALL GM: If we hammer somebody at an off-schedule time (e.g. 7am CST instead of the current deadline 7pm CST), what happens to deadlines for the rest of the game?

The night is extended to account for this.

##end

Tilt, we don't get the night info any earlier then.

This actually changed my mind though, once Tom confirms this or I find it in the OP that I forgot to read all the way through I'll vote to end. Extra time to reconsider if I'm wrong about brainbomb is nice.

If we end hammer before 8 PM tomorrow, the night should only be just over a ful day. So not so bad.

[worcej]

I am intrigued on why we are end hammering BB.

Like, he is a fine wagon, but why hammer?

It’s such a clear wagon that anything else just helps scum tonight imo

Is it?

He clearly is making fake claims and being weird, but that's BB. Like I said earlier, it was anti-town behavior, but it happened even when ghug was ahead and he was inno-shading arro, who wasn't really even a wagon. Do you think scum!BB would draw this much attention to him that quickly for no real reward?

Am I missing something else juicy?

[President Eden]

Why don't you want to hammer here, worcej?

[Fluminator]

##Vote Brainbomb'
At least I don't have to effort yet.

[Fluminator]

Maybe we shouldn't hammer so PE knows what the misery is like without them.(love ya PE <3 )

[Fluminator]

I actually wasn't 100% on brain being scum last night but I really can't think of any world where there is town motive here.

[Donny Dude]

I should note that Friday there is a very good chance I am not around for eod or most of it
Getting my car looked at for paint job and ramp repair.

[aarodactyl]

I should note that Friday there is a very good chance I am not around for eod or most of it
Getting my car looked at for paint job and ramp repair.

If we hammer, Friday doesn’t have a turn process.

[President Eden]

Maybe we shouldn't hammer so PE knows what the misery is like without them.(love ya PE <3 )

I will literally keep pumping out endless streams of mediocre analytical content like all of you should have been doing

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE brainbomb

[bozotheclown]

I think it is safe to say brainbomb is scum, so brainbomb and ghug were bussing each other D2. brainbomb kept jumping on and off ghug's wagon, before blatantly trying to save ghug at EOD by voting for Bonatogether. With ghug no longer likely to be a deep threat, I doubt brainbomb would try to save him there if at least one other scum was not already on ghug's wagon to get town credit when ghug would eventually flip.

[bozotheclown]

damo's willingness to follow ghug on to brainbomb was odd considering damo was voting for ghug. Also, this post could have been an attempt to build Bonatogether's wagon while Bonatogether was leading both ghug and brainbomb:

Everyone not on brain ghug or Bona should move now

[bozotheclown]

But FWIW, at least now you're starting to use my actual behavior for content.

Then worcej voted for ghug all D2, without ever pushing for ghug to be the DK.

This is not true. Here is my vote:

Also, ##vote ghug

Eden made the point, just agreeing with it via my vote.

Which was because Eden made a long-winded post regarding ghug that was my same opinion.

Reading this leads me to invalidate any portion of your ND concern on my case - if it was a driving factor, it should not matter who filled the slot.

This was me pushing on him for his voting reasons - it was curious how his position on if to flip my slot or not would be dependent on people. If ND was scum, as he was portraying, why would he be inconsistent with applying his vote?

That was D1 that, we are now on D2 and he expressed similar laziness. That's the beef I have with it.

This was me disagreeing with celaph's opinion on ghug and pointing out the flaw in his (celaph's) logic to not flip ghug.

Also of note: celaph is in the 'suspect for trying to protect ghug' group.

No - but that rabbit hole is a definite town!Jamie move, so I town him like Eden is.

In general, you’re just here to me. This is a concern in that I expect more pot stirring and action, but really you’re just on the defense.

This was me specifically saying why I suspected ghug.

So... how did I not push for his DK exactly?

OK, but those read like very weak pushes, and it is very likely someone was bussing ghug.

Also, none of these posts were in the last 23 hours of D2, so for the second half of D2 you did nothing to advocate for a ghug DK, even when you started posting about 6.5 hours before EOD when you and ghug were the top wagons.

[bozotheclown]

But FWIW, at least now you're starting to use my actual behavior for content.

This is not true. Here is my vote:
Which was because Eden made a long-winded post regarding ghug that was my same opinion.
This was me pushing on him for his voting reasons - it was curious how his position on if to flip my slot or not would be dependent on people. If ND was scum, as he was portraying, why would he be inconsistent with applying his vote?This was me disagreeing with celaph's opinion on ghug and pointing out the flaw in his (celaph's) logic to not flip ghug.

Also of note: celaph is in the 'suspect for trying to protect ghug' group.
This was me specifically saying why I suspected ghug.

So... how did I not push for his DK exactly?

OK, but those read like very weak pushes, and it is very likely someone was bussing ghug.

I don’t disagree that ghug was for sure bussed, but I had all the time in the world to move off him and didn’t because I legit scumread him.

Do you think I would bus and not move when people were making Bona happen? If I was scum, bussing ghug wasn’t going to improve my position on needing to be flipped because a majority of the case is dependent on ND’s behavior. Then, it gets worse becAuse ghug was lazy-voting my slot on D1, which draws it’s own level of skepticism on my alignment.

Simply put - if I was scum with ghug, I would not have bussed him in any way due to how tied together our slots are.

If you were bussing ghug, it would look bad to switch your vote to Bonatogether to save ghug. Also, your argument for why you would not bus ghug was only from the perspective of ghug flipping first, which did not seem particularly likely at the time you voted for ghug D2.

[rdrivera2005]

Maybe we shouldn't hammer so PE knows what the misery is like without them.(love ya PE <3 )

I will literally keep pumping out endless streams of mediocre analytical content like all of you should have been doing

I am on vacation and too lazy to do such deep reading, but I read yours and agree in most points.

Worcej is obviously town and so do Damo. Emc is highly suspect. Bunny is probably town, but I can see him bussing Ghug if mo other scum is on Ghug wagon.

I stiil have some doubts about Celaph. That interaction with BB you pointed was weird, I asked him about it at the time. I won't give him a free pass. But if emc is scum I don't think Celaph is too, so he shouldn't be on next days targets.

Donny is other player I have doubts. His posts look good but his votes and the justification aren't. I think he is competent enough to fly under the radar as scum.