MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

I want to reiterate that I'm compiling a list of tier lists and associated flips so if you guys (especially @brain) could please post those that'd be great.

[President Eden]

celaph, the class would love to hear from you!

[Fluminator]

I'll do my best to obvtown tomorrow. I was kind of hoping I could play a more lowkey game than usual replacing into Durga's slot. But I'm aware ghug flipping scum makes this slot look bad so I'll do my best.

FWIW, I don't think Durga would feel the need to defend scum ghug like she did. Usually scum ghug is pretty capable of defending himself.

The only person who I really noticed giving off bussing vibes in my extremely brief skim through was Bunny. The excitement tell that is almost always accurate in my experience when scum flipped does seem to townify HR and PE despite probably being on a bad wagon.

I definitely see the case on brainbomb. This reminds me very similarly to a previous game he was scum with ghug and he bussed him extremely convincingly day 1 to me.

That's all I got for now lol

[Chaqa]

Isn’t the point of a hard claim that you can’t retract?

We should DK bb tomorrow

[Donny Dude]

This is just from Ghug side D1 interaction with brain.

you dont gain or glean by killing lurkers
but you win
so we need to decide as a community if winning is better than basic common sense

At least brainbomb agrees with me.

Congrats on graduating to Tier 3, but Durga's ISO is all happy warm feelings and I'd really prefer it stay that way thanks.
I feel the exact same way about ND and Bona both.

@all Is it considered acceptable to use, let's just say strictly hypothetically, Discord online activity to read a player in a game? Like let's say strictly in theory that I happen to know somebody was at the computer throughout the day yesterday and just not participating in this game very much. Would it be out of bounds to use that info to call them out? I'm just asking for a friend here.

kinda hard to say. so on many sites thats banned, on mu its ogi and they disallow it. but from a certain point of view its also flawed info. I see when HR and Durga and others are playing steam instead of playing here. its a meaningless data point and NAI, some people just need other things to do. Some ppl leave discord on all day.

If you start basing cases on people not being here playing, thats a good enough argument that you shouldnt need to verify where they are instead. I cant say ghug and I are in pikes place market and he seemed scummy so lets kill him.

We should kill brain for putting an S in Pike Place.

I actually wouldn't frown on something like that. Brain's point about it but being a great way to read people is fair, but if it's information you already have and are using to read people, I think it's worth just putting out there.

I dont know that I feel the same about Maniac this game as I did last game. On the one hand he is about the same in terms of involvement. And then there is all this strange stuff about personal rules he sets for himself on reading the game thread. Not sure where any of this comes from. I dont trust Bona here, only after being pushed by me did bona start trying to seem above the curve in terms of post habits. Im going to fight the urge to distrust the wagon merely because someone scummy has joined it. could be an early bus, could be a save on ND. really dunno which.

##Vote Maniac

brain are you actually scum this time?

an HR day 1 elim would be probably the least likely to succeed and most shocking moment in webdip history if it nabbed him. im very tempted

Do you think he's scum or are you just excited by the idea?

Do you think he's scum or are you just excited by the idea?

BOTH

What possible reason could you have to scumread him right now?

What possible reason could you have to scumread him right now?

the fact that last game he actually produced a case, went hard at emc, kept up with the game, was heavily invested. Here HR is among lowest posters, hasnt produced any pushes with any explanation. Jamie is pretty clearly town here so It stinks of opportunism

HR's D1 activity last game was much more out of character than this is.

HR's D1 activity last game was much more out of character than this is.

Why do you suppose that happened

I imagine he felt like it.

[aarodactyl]

I was about to say "good job bozo but why are you up so late?"

[Donny Dude]

Should also note there some quotes on page 59 which I will now add.

Why are you derailing my questioning

Your argument made sense, hes piggy backing off you and it feels fraudulent

I complained about your HR vote before she did...

ghug pretty much always positions himself on your side anyway but here it felt alot less like it was his opinion and more like he was teling you what youd wanna see

Why would this make me scum specifically with HR?

[Fluminator]

Shading all the people who defended ghug or didn't want to kill him. Scum just lost their most important role in a vanilla game.

I agree with godfather being more important than roleblocker. I think this makes Worcej look better for saying this and not considering the godfather.

[Donny Dude]

Brain does mention ghug more as reads than quotes so I have included some to hopefully understand BB's thoughts. More interaction and direct quoting from ghug.

bunny is town
ghug is town
vecna is town
chaqa is town

I lack passion for what im advocating. because it isnt sexy. I wanna catch ghug and durga types not emc and yoyo

im late to weigh in on this flavor post shit from role pm but really do practice some common sense. you shouldnt be sharing flavor names unless a GM said it was okay. but the gm shouldnt be putting flavor in PMs unless its part of the setup like infinity wars. Chaqa had to reboot a whole game due to flavor names being included.

I dont even care who suggested it but I did see chaqa claim you can say anything thats in your role pm and I think its really not as simple as that.

ghug looked very angry in all that arguing and I think theres no way chaqa abd ghug are ever scum together based on how fiesty it got

lol ghug is totally scum with HR

[Donny Dude]

I am too tired to look for additional interactions but above should br reads/times where the two directly interacted relating to each other. I am not going to claim I got all of them, but it is all from d1 so I am stopping there.

[celaph]

celaph, the class would love to hear from you!

Yeah, yeah. I'm coming to realize that I'm rather trash at big catch-up posts. Will probably just post my immediate reactions to individual posts now and then more analysis later.

[Fluminator]

Brain's comment that my wagon looked like a late save of ghug has aged very well.

Then why did he vote you?

I retracted that right after. I haven't looked at the vote history, and I'm on page 162. I'm still figuring out what happened.

It looks pretty good that Bona wasn't aware what was going on his wagon as it was happening? At the very least he wasn't there lurking it out. Were you on a walk again?

[Fluminator]

I'd say bozo, brain, rdr, and celaph have a pretty reasonable shot at being scum.
Now that I know ghug's townread of donny is irrelevant I might dig deeper into him, but he does seem to be playing slightly differently that I remember.

[celaph]

##vote Jamiet

I actually agree with EMC after reading his full iso. I had the same strong gut feelings before. Made the classic Vecna decision to let a single post change my mind.

The fact everyone is townreading jamiet again this game is just further evidence. The guy would have walked all over you chumps last game as well if it wasnt for Durga.

Also, this EMC wagon needs to die. Shame on whoever is on it.

I think I'm going to sheep Vecna on this for now. He correctly townlocked EMC on D1 last game where I was far less certain. There are probably better kills the next few days.

I also think that EMC's post after I left does a good job summarizing his feelings and commits him to a spot. Not sure how I feel about the Jamie read.

[Fluminator]

Granted Donny plays on MS and is probably gaining more and more experience, and would easily change up his scum game by now.

[Donny Dude]

For night one instead of direct interactions, I tried to highlight their reads and interpretations of d1. Also anything that caught my eye. I figure some differences or similarities would be good to take a look at.

Of the 9 voters of Maniac, how many are scum? Probably some passive mafia on the vanity wagons?

The small wagons all actually felt like legitimate attempts to get people killed to me, and the day didn't end that close, so I don't think being off-wagon is really scummy here.

does anyone think that ND was the target because he was obvious town?

How the fuck would he be obvious town?

Thats what im asking, as in: “does anyone think ND was obvious town”

Some reads cause idk my availability for the next hour.

Town (town2town):
emc
Eden
Jamie
HR
-----------strong vs. weak line
celaph
Bona
Brian
Damo

Don't kill cause good (null2scum):
rd
Durga
Vecna
Bunny (could probably be convinced to kill)

Tomorrow kill options (boyz2men):
aaro
Donny
brain
Bozo
RHK
Chaqa
Worcej

MY TOWN
durga
vecna
PE
Jamie99
donny
rivera
damo
demonRHK
bunnygo

null
ghug
hamiltonbrian
celaph
aaro
chaqa

scum
HR
ghug
bozo
bona

if I forgot you, ping me.

I feel that mafia would prefer a maniac death over killing nd/worcej. Bozo is scum, donny is town. there was a point where bozo wanted to kill ND so there wouldnt be a sub out, then someone else said ND was gonna be modkilled which had zero factual basis in reality.

there was a narrative to kill ND by some people who seemed scummy, and yet if ND / worcej is town then maybe scum is just ultra inexperienced and did nothing there.

ill reread aaaro, celaph and bozo tonight.

trying to wrap my head around why bozo would wanna save maniac. so assuming bozo ever flips scum ND was not a bus vote

I had heard chaqa say he didnt wanna elim ND two games in a row because thatd be a shitty thing to do. Is this a townread chaqa or a sympathy read? you also had gone on record saying people only wanted ND dead because nobody likes him.

Sympathy. NAI.

Also the latter part is true. I firmly believe that’s why Durga and ghug have chosen to vote him out day 1 twice in an row.

I was under the impression you think ghug is scum
so maybe you can talk to me about if you find ghug ambitious as scum, I do. And I think ghug would 100% try to get rid of a better player than ND, like maniac or HR or rivera, so why didnt he?

I think HR is scum with ghug and ND was the safety valve to save HR

I cant explain why ghug as scum would not join a maniac wagon unless ghugs entire team was already on maniac, or if ghug just doesnt care and does whatever. Maybe he felt HR could swing rivera.

If im wrong about ghug then im just seeing ghosts on HR too probably

okay well if ghug is town and HR is town then id definetely feel like an idiotvwith no scent. but donny thats a decent point. It would seem I was trying to save ND in that world. Problem with that logic is I find some people understandable in why they vote ND. like durga voting ND is pretty NAI, ghug sheeping durga on ND two games in a row is less NAI IMO

[Donny Dude]

Granted Donny plays on MS and is probably gaining more and more experience, and would easily change up his scum game by now.

This is my first game since m60, I took a break from mafia scum due to how long the games were.

[Donny Dude]

K no more until tomorrow.

[Donny Dude]

K no more until tomorrow.

Another thing while I look at bot is that d2 seemed very active with low poster at 22.

[celaph]

Can you explain your willingness to vote me and Ghug over Flum, while listing them in the same bracket?

Whats the point of listing these brackets, but then being unwilling to vote them?

Sounds like a wonderfull way to claim later on that you were suspicious of the Flum/durga slot and to set up a future bus.

You haven't read properly. I said I am willing to vote any in the ??? group. The number of asterisks indicate the strength of said willing. Of the ??? group I am most reluctant to vote Flum as he is a new entrant and I'd rather give him a chance. If he was the only viable wagon of those in the ??? group I would vote him.

At the moment the only viable wagons in the group are ghug and worcej. Since worcej is ** and ghug * I am voting worcej.

damo literally following one of his ** suspects onto one of his * suspects.

Time to yeet this mafia into the sun

##VOTE damo666

This post reminds me a lot of Jamie's D2 attack on Maniac after the latter sheeped his townread into voting his townread. It just feels like you're using a single bad vote to dominate your read of him.

That said, I think it's unlikely that PE is scum here. In addition to my earlier townlean on him, I don't think scum PE gets the role blocker to be a lead wagon early only to drop off the second half of the day in a way that he can claim little credit for it.