MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[Fluminator]

Who started the Tier trend?

[Jamiet99uk]

Hmmm. It's fairly strong evidence, but the holidays happened, and ND didn't just low post, he never posted following his disappearance, so I think it's fair to say it's different?

Look at his profile:

https://webdiplomacy.net/userprofile.php?userID=68782

Last online Friday 5 PM (EST).

I think he just ghosted.

When was it actually announced he asked for a replacement?

Worcej has claimed that he was contacted by Tom asking if he could sub in, about three hours before D1 EoD.

[Jamiet99uk]

Are you suggesting this is something more to dig into? I'm afraid I am not getting the nuance, or I am not inferring all that well. How is this different than people saying they weren't role-blocked?

I’m making tea so catching up with the thread. No one has reacted to my post calling Vecna scum because I think the N1 RB would be scum.

Do you mean you think Scum actually roleblocked and killed DemonRHK so that one of their members could then claim "I was roleblocked" knowing that nobody could disprove this since the person actually roleblocked is dead?

Is that what you're suggesting?

What's for tea?

[Chaqa]

Hmmm. It's fairly strong evidence, but the holidays happened, and ND didn't just low post, he never posted following his disappearance, so I think it's fair to say it's different?

Look at his profile:

https://webdiplomacy.net/userprofile.php?userID=68782

Last online Friday 5 PM (EST).

I think he just ghosted.

When was it actually announced he asked for a replacement?

It wasn't. The GMs replaced him.

[Vecna]

This theory might be bogus but I think Vecna is scum.

I think the roleblocker doesn’t use their power n1. There’s such a low chance to hit town PR. And if they hit medic, there’s a good chance it won’t matter. So I think they’d not block anyone and then let one of them claim they were role blocked if they need the clear.

And why do you think they wouldnt use it to incriminate people?

People that have been playing for a while are very aware that I have a history of claiming fake roleblocks as scum.

[Chaqa]

I think it's too early to draw any conclusions from the Vecna RB claim. We can file it away for later.

[aarodactyl]

worcej is my top suspect for these reasons:

1. ND getting subbed D1 is a scum red flag for me.

Oh seriously Bozo not this shit again. Scumleaning Worcej because ND subbed out is silly, but making him your top "scumread" and listing this as one of your main reasons is downright ridiculous.

So you dont think the pattern that Bozo listed is at least some reason for suspicion?

ND has a clear pattern of flaking as scum D1 and making excuses, only to pick up later on. He displayed that here. As town he is nearly always hyper involved.

Why does this not at least entice you slightly?

He also was super flaky on the sign up post

[Jamiet99uk]

I think it's too early to draw any conclusions from the Vecna RB claim. We can file it away for later.

If anyone else was actually roleblocked they should definitely counter-claim Vecna's RB claim. Otherwise, yes, what Chaqa said. Spike it for now.

[aarodactyl]

Hmmm. It's fairly strong evidence, but the holidays happened, and ND didn't just low post, he never posted following his disappearance, so I think it's fair to say it's different?

Look at his profile:

https://webdiplomacy.net/userprofile.php?userID=68782

Last online Friday 5 PM (EST).

I think he just ghosted.

To add to this, I recall ND almost missing the deadline to confirm his sign up.

What does this matter in any of this? If he confirmed closer to gamestart he would have had a much clearer idea of his participation possibilities, no?

He seemed very disinterested in the game

[aarodactyl]

Who started the Tier trend?

PE

[Vecna]

K I'm pretty hungover and haven't absorbed most of the game. Last time that happened we killed ND and that worked out ok, so ##VOTE ND

This was ghug's ironclad reasoning for voting ND that apparently never got supplanted by anything better. Reeks of lazy scum.

Yeah. I think I called that out as well in my summary post. I really didn’t like it. I still don’t really enjoy the ghug wagon though. I get the feeling that if ghug is scum it will only get more obvious as time goes on. There are other people that have had scummy games so far but have a lot of chance to overwrite it if we just tunnel on ghug all day.

So you think Ghug is such a low-skilled scumplayer that he would become more obvious scum.....Yet the other players that have been obviously scum are much better and will magically improve to the point where all the suspicion vanishes?

I feel that during last game there were more than enough people talking about Ghug being very convincing as scum that this is not a perception you would have.

[damo666]

My current groups fwiw

Strong Town

Jamie PE
-------

Medium Town

Chaqa
--------

Weak Town

Aaro
Bozo
Donny
rdr
-------

???

Bona *
Brain **
Bunny **
Celaph *
EMC *
Flum
Ghug *
HB *
Vecna **
Worcej **

Willing to vote any in the ??? group but the more the asterisks the greater the willingness to vote them.

Can you explain your willingness to vote me and Ghug over Flum, while listing them in the same bracket?

Whats the point of listing these brackets, but then being unwilling to vote them?

Sounds like a wonderfull way to claim later on that you were suspicious of the Flum/durga slot and to set up a future bus.

You haven't read properly. I said I am willing to vote any in the ??? group. The number of asterisks indicate the strength of said willing. Of the ??? group I am most reluctant to vote Flum as he is a new entrant and I'd rather give him a chance. If he was the only viable wagon of those in the ??? group I would vote him.

At the moment the only viable wagons in the group are ghug and worcej. Since worcej is ** and ghug * I am voting worcej.

[aarodactyl]

Are you suggesting this is something more to dig into? I'm afraid I am not getting the nuance, or I am not inferring all that well. How is this different than people saying they weren't role-blocked?

I’m making tea so catching up with the thread. No one has reacted to my post calling Vecna scum because I think the N1 RB would be scum.

Do you mean you think Scum actually roleblocked and killed DemonRHK so that one of their members could then claim "I was roleblocked" knowing that nobody could disprove this since the person actually roleblocked is dead?

Is that what you're suggesting?

What's for tea?

That’s basically it. It’s kind of a tinfoil hat but yeah.

I think it’s chai tea. To be honest, I’m just up earlier than normal so I looked at what caffeinated teas we had in the cabinet.

[Vecna]

Oh seriously Bozo not this shit again. Scumleaning Worcej because ND subbed out is silly, but making him your top "scumread" and listing this as one of your main reasons is downright ridiculous.

So you dont think the pattern that Bozo listed is at least some reason for suspicion?

ND has a clear pattern of flaking as scum D1 and making excuses, only to pick up later on. He displayed that here. As town he is nearly always hyper involved.

Why does this not at least entice you slightly?

I have a general hatred of any argument that goes "Oh, XX subbed out, they must have been scum".

Also, I remember games where ND has played very well as scum, and put in a lot of effort. He did so in my Toyshop game where he survived until the end, and there was a game a while before that where he spent multiple phases setting up a mis-kill on me in a way that was absolutely infuriating to be on the receiving end of, but he certainly invested in his work.

You know Bozo also listed that Toyshop game right?

I actually went to check if he was lying again or if he actually did the work to find patterns because I remember that game very well (since me and durga dumpsterred him hard that time).

He had the exact same pattern there of stalling for time day1 to not be obvious scum early. He also didnt play that great that game, people were suspicious of him all game, his team was just even more obvious.

[Vecna]

Hmmm. It's fairly strong evidence, but the holidays happened, and ND didn't just low post, he never posted following his disappearance, so I think it's fair to say it's different?

Look at his profile:

https://webdiplomacy.net/userprofile.php?userID=68782

Last online Friday 5 PM (EST).

I think he just ghosted.

When was it actually announced he asked for a replacement?

Worcej has claimed that he was contacted by Tom asking if he could sub in, about three hours before D1 EoD.

did the actual replacement happen EoD1 or EoN1?

[Vecna]

Are you suggesting this is something more to dig into? I'm afraid I am not getting the nuance, or I am not inferring all that well. How is this different than people saying they weren't role-blocked?

I’m making tea so catching up with the thread. No one has reacted to my post calling Vecna scum because I think the N1 RB would be scum.

Do you mean you think Scum actually roleblocked and killed DemonRHK so that one of their members could then claim "I was roleblocked" knowing that nobody could disprove this since the person actually roleblocked is dead?

Is that what you're suggesting?

What's for tea?

Why are you putting the logical deduction in his head? Why not let him formulate his own thoughts?

This smells like coaching because you know he's walking into a trap

[Jamiet99uk]

I’m making tea so catching up with the thread. No one has reacted to my post calling Vecna scum because I think the N1 RB would be scum.

Do you mean you think Scum actually roleblocked and killed DemonRHK so that one of their members could then claim "I was roleblocked" knowing that nobody could disprove this since the person actually roleblocked is dead?

Is that what you're suggesting?

What's for tea?

That’s basically it. It’s kind of a tinfoil hat but yeah.

I think it’s chai tea. To be honest, I’m just up earlier than normal so I looked at what caffeinated teas we had in the cabinet.

Ah you are making a pot of tea. I misunderstood. Here in the UK "tea" is both a very popular drink and also a meal taken between 4pm and around about 5.30pm. I often have a pot of tea on the go while I am catching up on Mafia. I have one of those good old brown teapots that holds enough for about four cups of tea, albeit the last one having the consistency of a rather strong stew.

[damo666]

Oh seriously Bozo not this shit again. Scumleaning Worcej because ND subbed out is silly, but making him your top "scumread" and listing this as one of your main reasons is downright ridiculous.

So you dont think the pattern that Bozo listed is at least some reason for suspicion?

ND has a clear pattern of flaking as scum D1 and making excuses, only to pick up later on. He displayed that here. As town he is nearly always hyper involved.

Why does this not at least entice you slightly?

I have a general hatred of any argument that goes "Oh, XX subbed out, they must have been scum".

Also, I remember games where ND has played very well as scum, and put in a lot of effort. He did so in my Toyshop game where he survived until the end, and there was a game a while before that where he spent multiple phases setting up a mis-kill on me in a way that was absolutely infuriating to be on the receiving end of, but he certainly invested in his work.

I understand this and think you believe in honour and that the need for being subbed out is NAI. However I think there are 2 reasons supporting the hypothesis that it is scum indicative:

i) some people are averse to playing scum
ii) if someone knows their involvement is going to be minimal as scum they may be inclined to sub out to be fair to their team whereas as town (especially vt) they may be inclined to hang on

So imo the order of likelihood is scum, town PR, vt.

[Vecna]

My current groups fwiw

Strong Town

Jamie PE
-------

Medium Town

Chaqa
--------

Weak Town

Aaro
Bozo
Donny
rdr
-------

???

Bona *
Brain **
Bunny **
Celaph *
EMC *
Flum
Ghug *
HB *
Vecna **
Worcej **

Willing to vote any in the ??? group but the more the asterisks the greater the willingness to vote them.

Can you explain your willingness to vote me and Ghug over Flum, while listing them in the same bracket?

Whats the point of listing these brackets, but then being unwilling to vote them?

Sounds like a wonderfull way to claim later on that you were suspicious of the Flum/durga slot and to set up a future bus.

You haven't read properly. I said I am willing to vote any in the ??? group. The number of asterisks indicate the strength of said willing. Of the ??? group I am most reluctant to vote Flum as he is a new entrant and I'd rather give him a chance. If he was the only viable wagon of those in the ??? group I would vote him.

At the moment the only viable wagons in the group are ghug and worcej. Since worcej is ** and ghug * I am voting worcej.

I read it perfectly fine. Why are you willing to give flum a chance, yet not me while its obviously clear that im also just now starting to participate?

[Jamiet99uk]

I’m making tea so catching up with the thread. No one has reacted to my post calling Vecna scum because I think the N1 RB would be scum.

Do you mean you think Scum actually roleblocked and killed DemonRHK so that one of their members could then claim "I was roleblocked" knowing that nobody could disprove this since the person actually roleblocked is dead?

Is that what you're suggesting?

What's for tea?

Why are you putting the logical deduction in his head? Why not let him formulate his own thoughts?

This smells like coaching because you know he's walking into a trap

Quite the opposite. He had already posted his theory. I was reading it back to try to ensure I had understood it. In fact, I had not entirely understood it since, as he went on to explain to you, he was assuming the roleblock had been withheld rather than DemonRHK being the target of it.

Of course, in a game with no Tracker or Watcher, it would always be better to roleblock the kill target if setting up a fake RB claim for towncred rather than leave the roleblock unused.

For the record, I have no opinion on whether or not Vecna might be fake-claiming the roleblock. It is something he would do as scum, as he admits himself. But I can see a scum team taking Vecna's limited D1 participation as some kind of clue that he needed to be targeted. Yet, in that case, why not kill him? I am rambling. I'll go and boil the kettle.