MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

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President Eden
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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2601 Post by President Eden » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:35 am

I definitely felt at various points throughout the last couple of IRL days that mafia was sitting back and letting me rampage all over my teammates. Happened to Jamie who I am now heavily townreading, happened to you who I am now begrudgingly ( ;) ) dropping my suspicions on.

If that's right, then brainbomb was right there on almost all my pushes and suspicious musings, egging me on. And although it could just be coincidental timing, it's strange that he goes quiet whenever I'm having a nice mellow town hug session.

I will say he's had some observations that have aged well, like aaro looking townie, and he might be onto something with the lack of bite in the rivera vs Riot subplot. The thing is that none of that is outside his mafia range. He could just observe that aaro is town and that rivera vs Riot isn't going anywhere. There's a lack of drive to resolve, for instance, rivera vs Riot that sticks in my craw. He hasn't asked a direct question to either of them about the other despite calling the interaction reasonably likely to be scum theater.

Actually, I almost wonder if brainbomb, HR, and rivera are all mafia--HR distanced from rivera because it looked like HR was going to get yeetwagoned, rivera reciprocated, they both re-upped today but toned it down because they didn't want it to become an actual focal point, and brainbomb lampshaded the whole thing because he's a fucking madman who would blatantly call out his teammates' scum theater.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2602 Post by President Eden » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:44 am

I think maybe my timing on the HR/rivera day 1 theory is off, let me go reread. My recollection is that both of those players are relatively driven as town when they have suspects. They're back at it again on each other, but not really whipping any votes.

It should also be observed that brainbomb doesn't have to be mafia if these two are in fact mafia. Mostly I just meant that calling out his own teammates' scum theater is well within his range.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2603 Post by aarodactyl » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 am

@PE how much of a madman is brainbomb? I'd love if this was brain calling out the entire scum team.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2604 Post by President Eden » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:52 am

aarodactyl wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 am
@PE how much of a madman is brainbomb? I'd love if this was brain calling out the entire scum team.
I'm not saying he did that, but I'm saying he would do that. It does kinda make me want to shoot one of them to find out...

I think I want to resolve this Hellenic Riot/rdrivera subplot today.

Hellenic Riot & rdrivera2005: How come y'all aren't whipping us to kill each other?

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2605 Post by ghug » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:52 am

aarodactyl wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 am
@PE how much of a madman is brainbomb? I'd love if this was brain calling out the entire scum team.
It's entirely within his capacity to do that.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2606 Post by President Eden » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:54 am

To give a maybe more helpful answer, I think brainbomb has a strong intuitive sense for when apparently insane plays will actually work, vs when they'll just spectacularly backfire. I think he also gets a massive kick out of running them.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2607 Post by aarodactyl » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:39 am

Ughhh. I was just thinking about my long post and I realized I didn’t remember where I put chaqa. It looks like I missed them in my summary. I just counted and I’m actually missing several people

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2608 Post by aarodactyl » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:41 am

aarodactyl wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:28 am
Ok. I'm going to take a swing at making a read post. I'll use Tom's list because I'm glad he spent the effort to alphabetized it.

Also I liked the way that Eden organized their reads D1, so I'm going to steal their summary table:

Tier 1 Definitely Don’t Shoot: Jamiet99uk, President Eden
Tier 2 Don’t Shoot: Bona, Celaph, Damo666, Fluminator, Hellenic Riot
Tier 3 Probably Don’t Shoot: Donny Dude, Hamilton Brian, Worcej, Rdrivera2005
Tier 4 Could Shoot: Brainbomb, Bozo, EMC, Ghug
Tier 5 Shoot: BunnyGo, Vecna

Reads:
  1. Aarodactyl: clearly town
  2. Bonatogether: I know some people (included PE) have accused them of being scum because of their lack of engagement compared to last game. I don't think this is necessarily wrong, but I buy the excuse of catching up on homework. Even if it's a chaqa-esque diversion of using real life as an excuse, it seems pretty authentic to me. If they continue to not be engaged, I can get behind a scum read, but not right now. And besides lack of engagement, I don't see anything that seems out of place to me. town lean
  3. Brainbomb: I like playing with them, but I'm getting scummy vibes from them. I'm also super confused by their D1 voting. They went on maniac when it was a 4-4 split. However, they jumped off at 6-6 to the HR train. They switched back to maniac when it was looking super close at EOD. This all kind of makes sense to me, but at the same time, it feels like of like they were balancing the ND and Manic trains and if ND flips scum, it's going to make me suspicious. It also seems scummy because it felt like they were pushing the maniac wagon a fair bit. scum lean.
  4. Bozotheclown: I'm down to vote them out because of all the colored texted. It just seems distracting and makes rereading their D1 on peterbot very unpleasant. They've also contributed very little. scum lean
  5. BunnyGo: the AM/GM stuff was a lot D1 and wasn't really helpful at all. The weird bit about DMs and flavor names might have been a weird ploy to get PR to slip. They also argued with jamie about the spirit of the game. To be honest, they were the biggest D1 poster and most of it felt anti-town at best. And then they've been missing for 2 days. I think scum. (they're back now. I'm not going to factor that in for now because I want to publish this. It does mean they're probably going to stop looking quite as scummy. I think town!bunny does quite a bit of the D1 stuff)
  6. Celaph: I think their posting day 1 seemed just like their posting last game (so town). I also think switching from ND to Maniac to avoid a last second tie is a pretty town move. If ND was town, scum!celaph doesn't switch, and to be honest, if ND is scum, I don't think scum!celaph can afford to switch there. I don't like how much they've lurked since EOD1, but I didn't like that last game as well. I can't really hold that against them. town lean.
  7. Chaqa: I really dislike how they refused to pick a wagon when the two wagons were tied D1. They seem a lot more active than last game, and also a lot more constructive. I think that's NAI because they needed to change up their scum meta after winning last game. (NAI but they're getting a dog tomorrow. I hope that goes well) scum lean
  8. Damo666: I like their entrance to the game with them calling out bozo. I also like how they handled EOD1. I also feel like they're acting differently than last game. I think it also feels more natural. I'll put them at townlean.
  9. DemonRHK: dead
  10. Donny Dude: Their day 1 seems pretty townie until close to EOD. Taking a breather then voting maniac and then talking a lot about how it should have been obvious Maniac was town. Seems to focus on celaph a fair bit. This is kind of strange to me as well since it's hard to read someone you haven't played with before. I'm also not super happy they told Flum I was joking. I'm going to put them as a null read. I think that I would have down a scum lean if I'd played with them before.
  11. Durga/Fluminator: I really appreciated how Durga tried to keep the game civil, and I'm sorry that she left. And to be honest, keeping the game civil is a very town thing to do, and I'm not going to scumread the slot just because she subbed. Her play felt different from last game, but to mean that points to being VT instead of being PR. I like having flum around, so I'm going to be biased and put them as townlean. A more honest rating would be null.
  12. E.m.c.^42: There's a lot of calling ghug daddy and not a lot of reads on people. Also their EOD1 voting was all over the place and ended up breaking the maniac/ND tie. Obviously this doesn't mean much unless ND is scum (and to be honest I townread celaph for also breaking the tie). However, I think they're a scumlean for me.
  13. ghug: I'm giving ghug seven scum points for their given reason for voting for ND round 1. They fought with bunny for a while about the rules. I'm not sure how to think about this because it didn't feel like scum theater (and I'm scumreading bunny), but I guess they're allowed to have an honest fight. Asking to get bunny modkilled is sus in my eyes. Since there's no way that would actually happen. No offense, but ghug is coming across as kind of mean on this reread. In general people thought his voting and the way he talked about it afterwards was scummy. All of that being said, this feels exactly like ghug from last game, so I'm going to dial my read back to a scumlean.
  14. Hamilton Brian: I honestly forgot HB was playing. When I looked back, my impression was that HB had a wild NYE and has posted a couple of good sounding posts. However, that's easy to do as scum and it could be very well be them lurking. I'm going to put them at null and give them the benefit of the doubt that new years got them behind. However, if they keep on being behind on the thread, they're going to plummet in my ratings a lot.
  15. Hellenic Riot: Besides the wagon on them at the end of D1, I wouldn't have remember they were playing. Looking back, it seems like they posted a lot, especially near EOD. Most of it just seems to be defensive because of the train. They have a nice EOD post, but I don't think they were in real danger of being voted out when it happened. So I'd take the post as townie, but not as much as if they were going to be eliminated there. I think I'm going to put them at townlean. I'd like to also note that I did an awful job at reading them last game.
  16. Jamiet99uk: I'm getting tired, and Jamie has a lot of posts, and I don't want to reread them. I remember a lot of it from when I was first reading through everything. He seems very town. There's a lot of effort going into his posts and a lot of his anger at PE seemed real. The whole interaction with PE really seemed TvT, so good job if that ended up being scum theater. Town
  17. Maniac: dead
  18. ND/Worcej: I think ND lurking and then getting subbed is NAI. I think if they posted a lot, they'd just get baited by town into getting DKed. Worcej came in on the defense, but honestly, what else was he going to do? That's pretty NAI to me. They haven't posted quite as much as I'd expect, but we still have a lot of the day left and they're sick. null
  19. President Eden: Not going to reread them either (just like jamiet). They seem incredibly town. They've putting in a ton of effort, and their points are compelling (even if I don't agree with all the conclusions). I was sort of worried when they came in shitposting a lot, but they seem like a very valuable town player to have around.
  20. Rdrivera2005: they died before I could learn anything about them last game, so take all of this with a grain of salt. If ND is town, I like how they started the HR train. If ND is scum, I really don't like it. Most of their posts seem high quality, and I think that is pretty townie. But also I think they're falling into lurker territory for me. I know it's a rough time to be active, so I'm ok with giving it some leeway for now. I'm going to stick them at null, but if they don't start posting more, they're going to fall for me.
  21. Vecna: They're not posting a lot. And the posting they're doing isn't even close to the style of last game. It's super weird to me. I think someone just said to give lurkers leeway for now because IRL stuff happens, but the tone of their posts is so weird (even when they probably weren't drunk). I'm going to stick them as scum.
I want to add a caveat that I'm rating both PE and Jamiet really town and a large part of that is how high effort they've been. I want to balance this with saying that's also exactly how I'd expect them to be playing if they got godfather. That's gets very into WIFOM, and it's only D2. If I think about it too much, I'll probably go crazy.
Ok. It was just chaqa. I have 18 people now + 2 dead + me = 21 total.

Tier 1 Definitely Don’t Shoot: Jamiet99uk, President Eden
Tier 2 Don’t Shoot: Bona, Celaph, Damo666, Fluminator, Hellenic Riot
Tier 3 Probably Don’t Shoot: Donny Dude, Hamilton Brian, Worcej, Rdrivera2005
Tier 4 Could Shoot: Brainbomb, Bozo, EMC, Ghug, chaqa
Tier 5 Shoot: BunnyGo, Vecna

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2609 Post by aarodactyl » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:43 am

ghug wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:52 am
aarodactyl wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 am
@PE how much of a madman is brainbomb? I'd love if this was brain calling out the entire scum team.
It's entirely within his capacity to do that.
Weird you’d say this as someone on the list

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2610 Post by aarodactyl » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:45 am

President Eden wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:54 am
To give a maybe more helpful answer, I think brainbomb has a strong intuitive sense for when apparently insane plays will actually work, vs when they'll just spectacularly backfire. I think he also gets a massive kick out of running them.
I really really doubt he’d list his team. However, as I was lying in bed trying to fall asleep, I realized I put everyone in that list as scumlean or scum (that’s why i noticed chaqa was missing).

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2611 Post by bozotheclown » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:49 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:42 pm
So here's what I need to bring to the attention of the class. Earlier today I re-read some stuff from D1 and I think Ghug is definitely either scum or a PR. If he's the second, then I'm sorry. But assuming the first, I think it is possible that Ghug genuinely scum-slipped in his response to BunnyGo's unethical posts in which he lied about his Role PM.

Here is the post from Ghug which I think is significant - it's not a post from the time of the original exchange (that was on pages 39 and 40), but a little later, on page 49:
ghug wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:38 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:31 pm

Ghug I'm slightly suspicious of. Yes he disliked the style of play, but why overreact? Why claim godfather?

Why ignore me? Why respond to me? Some thoughts:

1) Ignoring me means you either don't know what's going on and decide to keep your head down, or know what's going on and want to see where it goes.

2) Why engage? Could be town motivated, but I don't see why. Town generally likes things to be shaken up. More often you're scum and want to keep yourself and your teammates from getting swept up.

So I need to go reread eventually and see who exactly said what in what order, but those were my prepared hypotheses for the experiment.
I've gotten pretty annoyed at everyone who's done this recently. I wasn't particularly kind to you when you were lying about GM communication last game, and that was less egregious than this to me. I PMed worcej suggesting clarifications on the town PM to help scum when I was town. Don't call it an overreaction just because you don't think what you did was wrong.

I claimed godfather because it was the first scum role that came to mind that fit my flavor name.

You'll note I did respond to you every time you brought it up. I flipped a shit the third or fourth time when it became clear you were actually serious and I found it objectionable.
I have highlighted the problematic line. It's a real "yikes" moment. Ghug says: "it was the first scum role that fit my flavor name"..... How does Ghug have a flavour name? Why, after retracting his "Godfather" claim, did Ghug continue to tell us that he knew his flavour name? There is no "Father Ghug" in the opening flavour and I am very sure there were no flavour names in the Role PMs. I sure don't know what my flavour name is going to be if I flip. This implies to me that Ghug actually thought, for real, that the Vanilla Townies had been told their flavour names (I know this ain't so). So in the heat of the moment, he thought he had to pretend he had a flavour name. Ergo, Ghug is not a VT.

Could it be that the above statement by Ghug _actually_ confirms, in plain sight, that he is not only *not* a VT, but actually the Godfather? Did Bunny truly make him snap so badly that he outed his role? Perhaps I am missing something but I cannot understand why Ghug carried on saying he knew his flavour name, after he stepped back from the "Godfather" part.

Ghug, if I'm wrong here, please feel free to explain to me how you claimed to know your flavour name?

I noticed this last night (which is why Ghug was in my scumreads) but I was reluctant to draw attention to it because I still think it was unfair of Bunny to put Ghug in this position. Nonetheless, the information is out there now. I cannot un-see it or pretend I did not see it. Here it is. I think Ghug is scum.
There is nothing in the role PMs given in post 1 about names, your theory seems to be based on the mafia and PRs having names, which does not appear to be the case.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2612 Post by ghug » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:56 am

aarodactyl wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:43 am
ghug wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:52 am
aarodactyl wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 am
@PE how much of a madman is brainbomb? I'd love if this was brain calling out the entire scum team.
It's entirely within his capacity to do that.
Weird you’d say this as someone on the list
I'm not gonna lie about it.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2613 Post by bozotheclown » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:06 am

BunnyGo wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:03 am
worcej wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:52 am
Some thoughts:
  1. NAI with Bunny not posting. Things happen IRL and I don't think his lack of posting has anything to actually do with the game
  2. Same thing with Vecna - NAI to do life stuff
  3. The people freaking out about Bunny/Vecna's lack of posting make me go :?
  4. I am fine with the ghug wagon still
  5. I don't understand the HR wagon personally - he is null to me atm, so I'll dig more to understand
  6. Bozo's N1 and D2 have been weak. Without reading D1, I am uninspired by his performance so far which can usually indicate scum.
  7. HB seems too aloof... easy to fake and very non-committal.
  8. Damo's question about Demon's NK possibly indicating 'scum disharmony' is really weird. I think it's a wild goose chase that he isn't prone to present normally.
Back, and was going to post "sorry I'm gone" and this was the first post I saw...so yeah. Life was busy: end of school break, and life in general. I'm also realizing that my best skill set is not in shaking things up, but in digging for data later (and even that is arguably not a great skill set). So I'm just planning on reading when I have time. That said...haven't read anything but this post (and the awesome flavor text +10 to the GM)

I'm gonna find time to see how Maniac got got yesterday. Some thoughts:

1) If none of our wagons were scum, then it's probably a town lead shift, but not necessarily. Scum would later point and say: see, I knew I was saving a towny.
2) If exactly one of our wagons were scum, then it was certainly a town lead shift. We saw this last game with 3 wagons D1. The scum feel frozen and wait for town to get jumpy the wrong way. THEN they help push. If they end up bussing a scum kill day 1...not great, but it buys them cred.
3) If both ND and HR are scum, then I'm not sure. We're probably in good shape anyways then.
Did you read PE's post about your tendency to not post much at night as scum?

Did you realize you have not posted much at night the last 2 games you were scum compared to your typical town games?

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2614 Post by ghug » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:10 am

Bozo, how do you feel about PE and Jamie outbozoing you?

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2615 Post by bozotheclown » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:10 am

aarodactyl wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:39 am
That might also be my last high quality post until EOD. The people I've comfortable voting for as of right now are vecna, bunny, and bozo. I'm sure this will change somewhat by EOD. For now, I'm going to park my vote on ##vote bozo. I know they aren't one of my two stronger scum reads, but I want to put some pressure on them. I'm also guessing Vecna and Bunny will trend a bit townier now that they seem to be back.
I thought you were the closest to figuring out what I was doing with the text colors.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2616 Post by bozotheclown » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:11 am

ghug wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:10 am
Bozo, how do you feel about PE and Jamie outbozoing you?
You will have to be more specific.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2617 Post by ghug » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:15 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:11 am
ghug wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:10 am
Bozo, how do you feel about PE and Jamie outbozoing you?
You will have to be more specific.
Jamie caught damo lying about his meta and PE did the whole Bunny posting at night thing.


Are you ever going to tell us what the deal with your text colors was?

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2618 Post by bozotheclown » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:48 am

President Eden wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:56 am
##VOTE bozotheclown

We'll start here. aaro earned a turn at the wheel.

bozo, who's the mafia and who's not? I can't read you well anyway so this vote might actually stick if your response isn't impressive :eyes:
worcej is my top suspect for these reasons:

1. ND getting subbed D1 is a scum red flag for me.
2. ND's 3 posts at the beginning of D1, when he was presumably reading the game, did not call out anything game related, which is a stark contrast to the beginning of his D1 in M62, and to what I remember about ND's typical town games.
3. The similarity to what ND did in M49.
4. worcej entering the game by criticizing the ND wagon.

I am also concerned about BunnyGo, because what he did D1 asking for character names seems like something he would do to come across as town, and I can buy that he has a tendency to post less at night as scum. Not posting for the first half of D2 could have been a way to cover for his lack of N1 posts after you pointed out his lack of posting at night in M62 and M61.

Based just on D1 voting, I think emc and celaph are moat likely town. I doubt emc would move his vote around like that at EOD as scum, and I can't see celaph switching his vote from ND to Maniac at EOD as scum, regardless of ND's alignment.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2619 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:54 am

Fluminator wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:53 am
brainbomb wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:18 am
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:53 am


Well, I am pretty sure you are scum and this is exactly your scum meta. You lying to build a case on me is exactly what you did on the Matrix game. It worked there because most players are afraid to kill you for some reason I can't understand.
I gave reads, either town and scum but I don't pretend I have reads on people I barely remember that were playing.

##vote HR
Rdr, do you have reason to suspect HR outside of him lying to build a case?
I think his D1 was subpar and voted him to see what reactions it will generate and the fact the wagon vanished at EOD is a bit suspicious.
But my core reason is the way he reacted to my vote.

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Re: MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

#2620 Post by bozotheclown » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:55 am

ghug wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:15 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:11 am
ghug wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:10 am
Bozo, how do you feel about PE and Jamie outbozoing you?
You will have to be more specific.
Jamie caught damo lying about his meta and PE did the whole Bunny posting at night thing.


Are you ever going to tell us what the deal with your text colors was?
Jamie pointing out a damo vote from M55 when damo made 2 equivalent votes in the last game made me wonder if Jamie started with M1.

I like PE's theory about BunnyGo.

I thought someone would figure out the significance of the text colors.

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