MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

im late to weigh in on this flavor post shit from role pm but really do practice some common sense. you shouldnt be sharing flavor names unless a GM said it was okay. but the gm shouldnt be putting flavor in PMs unless its part of the setup like infinity wars. Chaqa had to reboot a whole game due to flavor names being included.

I dont even care who suggested it but I did see chaqa claim you can say anything thats in your role pm and I think its really not as simple as that.

ghug looked very angry in all that arguing and I think theres no way chaqa abd ghug are ever scum together based on how fiesty it got

We’re not scum together, but you shouldn’t assume that after the scum theater kgray and I did two games ago.

[Jamiet99uk]

bozotheclown
celaph
e.m.c^42
Hellenic Riot
ND

You have four hours and 20 minutes to cast a vote.

ND, you have not yet participated meaningfully. I'm happy to keep my vote on you until you do that.

I am going to ISO some of the people I don't have reads on yet. I think I'll start with Damo and Aero.

[Chaqa]

K I'm pretty hungover and haven't absorbed most of the game. Last time that happened we killed ND and that worked out ok, so ##VOTE ND

Uhhhhh I don’t see how losing an 11v1 means it worked out okay.

I think we should do something daring and DK a high profile player today for a change.

[Jamiet99uk]

I went to sleep this morning thinking there was something important I wanted to say, but now that I'm here I've forgotten it.

Perhaps you were going to cast a vote, could that have been it?

[Chaqa]

And to be clear there are players who I think are good scum players but not good town players like Chaqa or Jamie who don't get that protection.

I’m voting for someone I believe to be a strong liability to town.

[Jamiet99uk]

Damo looks very sketchy so far.

@Damo: Could you explain your vote for Maniac, and provide an update on your current thoughts about Bozo? Thanks.

[Jamiet99uk]

And to be clear there are players who I think are good scum players but not good town players like Chaqa or Jamie who don't get that protection.

I’m voting for someone I believe to be a strong liability to town.

Sorry Chaqa, just to clarify this, you are voting for Ghug because you think he is town, but a liability? You are, nontheless, voting a townread? That's what you're doing?

[ghug]

K I'm pretty hungover and haven't absorbed most of the game. Last time that happened we killed ND and that worked out ok, so ##VOTE ND

Uhhhhh I don’t see how losing an 11v1 means it worked out okay.

I think we should do something daring and DK a high profile player today for a change.

That wasn't because we killed ND.

Benefits included having active players alive the whole game and not having ND around.

[President Eden]

Damo looks very sketchy so far.

@Damo: Could you explain your vote for Maniac, and provide an update on your current thoughts about Bozo? Thanks.

Good question but can I get you to answer too?

[Durga]

Let's just say I'm not opposed with that vote but uh I'm horrified of that player lol

[ghug]

Let's just say I'm not opposed with that vote but uh I'm horrified of that player lol

wat

[President Eden]

I pretty much always lead in post count right now. You're welcome to townread me for it though. I'm always town.

Since you have watched recent games, what's different about Maniac here that makes you scumread him?

Honestly just the rules bit. I could accept that I'm overvaluing the importance of that data point. But I cannot recall a time that I ever saw a townie openly railroading their own vote for the next day after multiple flips(!) based upon some aspect of day 1 activity.

For what it's worth I openly acknowledged in the M62 God QT that I would have miskilled Maniac the turn he died there. I don't have high faith in my ability to read him accurately. I think that might be partially factoring into my decision to shoot him for something I think is mafia-indicative.

[celaph]

bozotheclown
celaph
e.m.c^42
Hellenic Riot
ND

You have four hours and 20 minutes to cast a vote.

ND, you have not yet participated meaningfully. I'm happy to keep my vote on you until you do that.

I am going to ISO some of the people I don't have reads on yet. I think I'll start with Damo and Aero.

I'm aware. I see reasons to keep everyone alive right now, but I think I have the least reason to keep around ND so I'll ##vote ND. He hasn't contributed anything of note this game and I didn't see much in D1 last game that makes me think he'll be a strong town asset if kept around.

As for the other wagon, Maniac feels off to me, but in a similar way to last game so I'm down to keep him around for now. For better or worse, I imagine that he'll either get cleaned or DK'd at some point. I've got a complete null read on Donny.

In terms of other notable people, I'm leaning towards bunny being stupid town rather than scum. I scumlean Vecna, but my perception of town Vecna is high enough that I want to leave him alive today and see if he can change that.

[President Eden]

I would probably join the wagon on that player (I am deliberately not naming them so he can't ctrl-f and find this post if he's mafia catching up that way) if the counterwagon weren't in my kill pool, but I think if he's mafia we could catch him even more cleanly on day 2. I think if he is mafia that his activity won't change considerably between day 1 and day 2, and that the lack of an NYE excuse will make it easy to catch him.

Plus he got spaced day 1 last time and it'd be a shame if it happened twice.

But ultimately if he goes today I won't be too bothered.

[ghug]

I pretty much always lead in post count right now. You're welcome to townread me for it though. I'm always town.

Since you have watched recent games, what's different about Maniac here that makes you scumread him?

Honestly just the rules bit. I could accept that I'm overvaluing the importance of that data point. But I cannot recall a time that I ever saw a townie openly railroading their own vote for the next day after multiple flips(!) based upon some aspect of day 1 activity.

For what it's worth I openly acknowledged in the M62 God QT that I would have miskilled Maniac the turn he died there. I don't have high faith in my ability to read him accurately. I think that might be partially factoring into my decision to shoot him for something I think is mafia-indicative.

My issue is that he's s always done shit like this Two games ago he claimed vengeful and demanded we spend the whole day making a series of votes to help him decide his target and then kill him.

I also don't agree that railroading your vote is mafia indicative (I'm doing it right now!). Mafia care more about leaving their options open, displaying consistent thought processes, and looking good, all of which are hampered by publicly limiting your voting options.

[Bonatogether]

I like celaph and aaro this time around, dislike bunny. Chaqa and Eden need to cool it with the among us talk. Emc is probably town. Brain is doing the same stuff as last time, and ghug is being weird. Durga/Tom/bozo haven't said anything AI, and I don't know Donny or Demon well enough to say anything.

Not being able to +1 things is gonna get me dked cause I can't back up that I'm reading the thread. Calling it now.

Use posts and words instead of +1 clicks. It's easy if you try.

[Tom Bombadil]

Vote Count 1.3

Maniac 3: (damo666,aarodactyl, President Eden)
ND: 3 (ghug, Jamiet99uk, celaph)
Donny Dude: 2 (Durga, rdrivera2005)
Celaph: 1 (Bonatogether)
President Eden: 1 (Maniac)
Jamiet99uk: 1 (Vecna)
Bozotheclown: 1 (Hamilton Brian)
Damo666: 1 (BunnyGo)
Ghug: 1 (Chaqa)
Hamilton Brian: 1 (Donny Dude)
Bonatogether: 1 (brainbomb)

Unvote: 1 (DemonRHK)

The following players need to cast valid votes:

Bozotheclown, e.m.c.^42, Hellenic Riot, ND

NOBODY IS SET TO BE KILLED

3 hours, 53 minutes remaining in D1

[President Eden]

I pretty much always lead in post count right now. You're welcome to townread me for it though. I'm always town.

Since you have watched recent games, what's different about Maniac here that makes you scumread him?

Honestly just the rules bit. I could accept that I'm overvaluing the importance of that data point. But I cannot recall a time that I ever saw a townie openly railroading their own vote for the next day after multiple flips(!) based upon some aspect of day 1 activity.

For what it's worth I openly acknowledged in the M62 God QT that I would have miskilled Maniac the turn he died there. I don't have high faith in my ability to read him accurately. I think that might be partially factoring into my decision to shoot him for something I think is mafia-indicative.

My issue is that he's s always done shit like this Two games ago he claimed vengeful and demanded we spend the whole day making a series of votes to help him decide his target and then kill him.

I also don't agree that railroading your vote is mafia indicative (I'm doing it right now!). Mafia care more about leaving their options open, displaying consistent thought processes, and looking good, all of which are hampered by publicly limiting your voting options.

While I agree with your analysis on what mafia wants to do, I disagree that railroading your own vote prevents that. If the publicly stated rationale for your railroaded vote looks good, then abiding by those rules accomplishes both the consistency and looking-good objectives. You do limit your options, but if you can find a decent reason to vote someone out then it's not inherently suspicious to break your own rule to do it (in fact, on occasions in the past when I have seen town setting such rules for themselves, they often do break those rules if they think they've caught mafia).

The main utility I see to setting rules as mafia - and the reason I think mafia do it more often than town - is that they "script" your plays so that you don't have to give authentic, in-the-moment reactions to unexpected events (e.g. BunnyGo's character-name gambit). You can wait for the situation to develop, play along as you need to do, and then keep your vote where you said it was going to be.

[Chaqa]

And to be clear there are players who I think are good scum players but not good town players like Chaqa or Jamie who don't get that protection.

I’m voting for someone I believe to be a strong liability to town.

Sorry Chaqa, just to clarify this, you are voting for Ghug because you think he is town, but a liability? You are, nontheless, voting a townread? That's what you're doing?

I think he’s a liability to the town, either because he’s scum or because if he is town he will lead us to disaster.

[ghug]

Honestly just the rules bit. I could accept that I'm overvaluing the importance of that data point. But I cannot recall a time that I ever saw a townie openly railroading their own vote for the next day after multiple flips(!) based upon some aspect of day 1 activity.

For what it's worth I openly acknowledged in the M62 God QT that I would have miskilled Maniac the turn he died there. I don't have high faith in my ability to read him accurately. I think that might be partially factoring into my decision to shoot him for something I think is mafia-indicative.

My issue is that he's s always done shit like this Two games ago he claimed vengeful and demanded we spend the whole day making a series of votes to help him decide his target and then kill him.

I also don't agree that railroading your vote is mafia indicative (I'm doing it right now!). Mafia care more about leaving their options open, displaying consistent thought processes, and looking good, all of which are hampered by publicly limiting your voting options.

While I agree with your analysis on what mafia wants to do, I disagree that railroading your own vote prevents that. If the publicly stated rationale for your railroaded vote looks good, then abiding by those rules accomplishes both the consistency and looking-good objectives. You do limit your options, but if you can find a decent reason to vote someone out then it's not inherently suspicious to break your own rule to do it (in fact, on occasions in the past when I have seen town setting such rules for themselves, they often do break those rules if they think they've caught mafia).

The main utility I see to setting rules as mafia - and the reason I think mafia do it more often than town - is that they "script" your plays so that you don't have to give authentic, in-the-moment reactions to unexpected events (e.g. BunnyGo's character-name gambit). You can wait for the situation to develop, play along as you need to do, and then keep your vote where you said it was going to be.

I don't like that you responded to the part about game philosophy and not the part about Maniac.