MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[peterlund]

Bot now reset with correct start time for game 63.

http://mafia.peterlund.se

[aarodactyl]

Also now that I've caught up, I'm going to ##vote maniac

The rules thing smells like scum to me (except rule 3, which I also endorse). It reminds me of what Jamie did last game to lower post count. And in general, establishing rules to allow yourself to lurk feels very scummy.

Repeating so the bot can get it. ##vote maniac

[bozotheclown]

Specifically:

1) He was serious in signaling that he'd closely read the rules
2) He was serious in noting that he'd noticed last game that when he copied/pasted bo's name from a previous rules, he'd noticed that he'd had a scum name
3) He was serious about getting people to think about the mental state of Tom when making this unnecessary modification to the rules

Whether he's serious that Vecna is scum? I dunno.

What did you think you saw with Chaqa in M62?

What are you asking me about Chaqa?

I was asking what you meant in your post responding to PE when you said you pressured Chaqa for thing you thought you saw. What did you see?

[aarodactyl]

Also now that I've caught up, I'm going to ##vote maniac

The rules thing smells like scum to me (except rule 3, which I also endorse). It reminds me of what Jamie did last game to lower post count. And in general, establishing rules to allow yourself to lurk feels very scummy.

Repeating so the bot can get it. ##vote maniac

oh this was completely unnecessarily. the bot has all the votes. Thanks peter!

[President Eden]

The Case For Chaqa:

Chaqa does tend to place low value on day 1, and will try all kinds of silly things to excuse not participating early. But one thing I believe is beyond the pale for him is directly asking to be killed day 1. Chaqa wouldn’t feel right about getting himself killed day 1 and hurting his team if he were mafia, and there’s no world where that helps mafia win: it only could help if he were bussed, but bussing gets very little credit in this group because of how often it’s used.
In contrast, it’s certainly plausible that he might see himself as perpetually suspicious to the town, given his last two games, and that his slot flipping town early could help his team win—if we’re being honest, most games it’s a townie going out in the first couple of rounds, and a townie that’s going to struggle to be townread and productive is a good shot even if it’s wrong.

I am pretty sure Chaqa is town here and will fight him being killed day 1.

[Jamiet99uk]

Oh hurrah the bot is fixed.

[bozotheclown]

I only answer questions written in black.

How do you define "wasted their vote"?

The dictionary definition of Wasting Ones Vote is not treating it with the reverence it desires. So anyone losing their vote down the back of the sofa or sitting on it and breaking the screen. That’s wasting your vote. Or voting for someone who isn’t going to win. Like the Lib Dems.

What is the point of your rule 1 if you can subjectively apply what you mean by wasting a vote?

[Durga]

When did Chaqa get a fan club?

[ghug]

Chaqa, you sent me either the Among Us link or a taunt moments before you killed me last game and then deleted it before I could read it. What gives?

Oh. I sent a taunting PM but unsent it lol

@PE can you retroactively modkill chaqa for this and have m62 be a town win?

Agreed

[bozotheclown]

The Case For Chaqa:

Chaqa does tend to place low value on day 1, and will try all kinds of silly things to excuse not participating early. But one thing I believe is beyond the pale for him is directly asking to be killed day 1. Chaqa wouldn’t feel right about getting himself killed day 1 and hurting his team if he were mafia, and there’s no world where that helps mafia win: it only could help if he were bussed, but bussing gets very little credit in this group because of how often it’s used.
In contrast, it’s certainly plausible that he might see himself as perpetually suspicious to the town, given his last two games, and that his slot flipping town early could help his team win—if we’re being honest, most games it’s a townie going out in the first couple of rounds, and a townie that’s going to struggle to be townread and productive is a good shot even if it’s wrong.

I am pretty sure Chaqa is town here and will fight him being killed day 1.

Maybe that is just what he wants you to think.

[ghug]

Also now that I've caught up, I'm going to ##vote maniac

The rules thing smells like scum to me (except rule 3, which I also endorse). It reminds me of what Jamie did last game to lower post count. And in general, establishing rules to allow yourself to lurk feels very scummy.

I still don't think that was scummy of Jamie (he started when he was town) and wish he'd continue it.

[President Eden]

The Case For Chaqa:

Chaqa does tend to place low value on day 1, and will try all kinds of silly things to excuse not participating early. But one thing I believe is beyond the pale for him is directly asking to be killed day 1. Chaqa wouldn’t feel right about getting himself killed day 1 and hurting his team if he were mafia, and there’s no world where that helps mafia win: it only could help if he were bussed, but bussing gets very little credit in this group because of how often it’s used.
In contrast, it’s certainly plausible that he might see himself as perpetually suspicious to the town, given his last two games, and that his slot flipping town early could help his team win—if we’re being honest, most games it’s a townie going out in the first couple of rounds, and a townie that’s going to struggle to be townread and productive is a good shot even if it’s wrong.

I am pretty sure Chaqa is town here and will fight him being killed day 1.

Maybe that is just what he wants you to think.

I agree but that's literally the only way he could be mafia here from my perspective. Personally I think the risk/reward on that kind of play skews against it, but he could view it differently.

[ghug]

The Case For Chaqa:

Chaqa does tend to place low value on day 1, and will try all kinds of silly things to excuse not participating early. But one thing I believe is beyond the pale for him is directly asking to be killed day 1. Chaqa wouldn’t feel right about getting himself killed day 1 and hurting his team if he were mafia, and there’s no world where that helps mafia win: it only could help if he were bussed, but bussing gets very little credit in this group because of how often it’s used.
In contrast, it’s certainly plausible that he might see himself as perpetually suspicious to the town, given his last two games, and that his slot flipping town early could help his team win—if we’re being honest, most games it’s a townie going out in the first couple of rounds, and a townie that’s going to struggle to be townread and productive is a good shot even if it’s wrong.

I am pretty sure Chaqa is town here and will fight him being killed day 1.

I don't believe there's any conviction at all behind this post.

[e.m.c^42]

If you keep all the shepards and sell all the shhep your business will go under.

I feel killing town for the sake of them being considered 'useless' is a quick way to spot scum an advantage. Hard telegraphing is just as poor.

Has the meta shifted that hard in that few games?

Has RHK always been starting off so serious? Usually from what I recall he joins in with the shitposting D1, so this grasped attention.

[aarodactyl]

Also now that I've caught up, I'm going to ##vote maniac

The rules thing smells like scum to me (except rule 3, which I also endorse). It reminds me of what Jamie did last game to lower post count. And in general, establishing rules to allow yourself to lurk feels very scummy.

I still don't think that was scummy of Jamie (he started when he was town) and wish he'd continue it.

Last game I had nothing to base my reads on. Now I have one game to base my reads on. I'm pretty sure that means I'll be worse.

[Jamiet99uk]

Also now that I've caught up, I'm going to ##vote maniac

The rules thing smells like scum to me (except rule 3, which I also endorse). It reminds me of what Jamie did last game to lower post count. And in general, establishing rules to allow yourself to lurk feels very scummy.

I still don't think that was scummy of Jamie (he started when he was town) and wish he'd continue it.

Perhaps I will.

[President Eden]

I don't think Bunny's initial post was particularly dependent on whether PE's first post was sarcastic. I'm imagining that PE's post reminded Bunny of a mild concern last game that he chose to share. I also don't think that understanding the sarcasm in PE's post is alignment indicative. You could make an argument that the way Bunny dragged this out is alignment indicative, but I'll wait for some people to flip before that.

I think the part about being careful to use that argument is a good indication that he did not consider it sarcastic (beside BunnyGo already responding that he took the post seriously), but it may not be scum indicative, unless you think it was so obvious that PE's post was sarcastic that BunnyGo's response may have been fabricated.

Nope, Pres Eden choosing to post that says *something*. Still not sure what.

And I actively chose to *not* say something similar last game.

The more this bit goes on the more I get worried about BG. I don't have a great reason for why really. I just struggle to believe that anybody could think I was trying to communicate anything by the post, and the more I make it clear I wasn't communicating anything, the more BG insists I was. The trouble is that if he's genuine then the town motivation behind his posting is clear, and if he's not then the mafia motivation behind his posting is also clear; and this bit is in this uncanny valley of genuineness where there's nothing I can point to and say "See, he's faking it!" and he totally could mean what he says. But it just don't feel right.

[aarodactyl]

I think the part about being careful to use that argument is a good indication that he did not consider it sarcastic (beside BunnyGo already responding that he took the post seriously), but it may not be scum indicative, unless you think it was so obvious that PE's post was sarcastic that BunnyGo's response may have been fabricated.

Nope, Pres Eden choosing to post that says *something*. Still not sure what.

And I actively chose to *not* say something similar last game.

The more this bit goes on the more I get worried about BG. I don't have a great reason for why really. I just struggle to believe that anybody could think I was trying to communicate anything by the post, and the more I make it clear I wasn't communicating anything, the more BG insists I was. The trouble is that if he's genuine then the town motivation behind his posting is clear, and if he's not then the mafia motivation behind his posting is also clear; and this bit is in this uncanny valley of genuineness where there's nothing I can point to and say "See, he's faking it!" and he totally could mean what he says. But it just don't feel right.

This is the feeling I got from bunny last game. However, I wouldn't put it past them to also act this way as town though.

[President Eden]

The Case For Chaqa:

Chaqa does tend to place low value on day 1, and will try all kinds of silly things to excuse not participating early. But one thing I believe is beyond the pale for him is directly asking to be killed day 1. Chaqa wouldn’t feel right about getting himself killed day 1 and hurting his team if he were mafia, and there’s no world where that helps mafia win: it only could help if he were bussed, but bussing gets very little credit in this group because of how often it’s used.
In contrast, it’s certainly plausible that he might see himself as perpetually suspicious to the town, given his last two games, and that his slot flipping town early could help his team win—if we’re being honest, most games it’s a townie going out in the first couple of rounds, and a townie that’s going to struggle to be townread and productive is a good shot even if it’s wrong.

I am pretty sure Chaqa is town here and will fight him being killed day 1.

I don't believe there's any conviction at all behind this post.

Thanks for sharing but I mean what I say here. There's a method to Chaqa's play that y'all have collectively misunderstood for a couple months now. I've had the benefit of a ton of games of Among Us with him to feel out his style in these social deduction types of games. He'll coast, he'll openly ignore what the player base thinks is optimal play, but he'll never outright throw a game. I am convinced that the only way he would be asking people to daykill him is as some kind of wild gambit to draw a read exactly like this from someone like me that would try to give him the benefit of the doubt, but after the last two games I can't imagine that going over well.

[Jamiet99uk]

I think the part about being careful to use that argument is a good indication that he did not consider it sarcastic (beside BunnyGo already responding that he took the post seriously), but it may not be scum indicative, unless you think it was so obvious that PE's post was sarcastic that BunnyGo's response may have been fabricated.

Nope, Pres Eden choosing to post that says *something*. Still not sure what.

And I actively chose to *not* say something similar last game.

The more this bit goes on the more I get worried about BG. I don't have a great reason for why really. I just struggle to believe that anybody could think I was trying to communicate anything by the post, and the more I make it clear I wasn't communicating anything, the more BG insists I was. The trouble is that if he's genuine then the town motivation behind his posting is clear, and if he's not then the mafia motivation behind his posting is also clear; and this bit is in this uncanny valley of genuineness where there's nothing I can point to and say "See, he's faking it!" and he totally could mean what he says. But it just don't feel right.

BunnyGo did something like this to me in the last game. Bozo did too. They both spent a period of time being relentlessly obsessed with whether my opening post revealed anything about my Role PM (it did not) and pushed this insignificant point for page after page, the pair of them.