M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[bozotheclown]

Lol chaqa ninjad me.
Townreading someone is not a scumslip

You stated damo vs. celaph was scum vs. town like it was a fact, that is different than town reading someone.

[bozotheclown]

m,e

Do you have reasons? No ones actually even given a reason why they think I'm scum outside of gut feelings and asking you to expand on your damo townread.

Meta, NKA, VCA, and interactions with confirmed scum all point to bozo imo.

Here are some reasons:

1. You called out all of the other scum early, which could be distancing.
2. Your D1 vote for teacon looks like a bus because you voted for him late in the day when he had no votes and there were a number of 2 vote wagons available, and some 1 vote wagons on players you called out as potential scum.
3. You said Hamilton was "confirmed town" after he posted his notes, but at D2 EOD you indicated you would be willing to vote for him again after he posted his notes.
4. You said you did not want to vote for damo D2 because you thought HR believed damo was a PR, but later said it was because you thought HR had a cop scan on damo.
5. You said you didn't know cop was not an available role, which sounds like a faked town slip.
6. You avoided voting for damo D5 until he was the apparent DK, then claimed you were always planning on voting for him.
7. You voted for HR and Balki D6 when I would expect you to realize they were both town.

[President Eden]

Just to be clear, in case there was confusion, I know HR didn't actually vote for celaph, I just thought it'd be funny to post a joking vote count that included it because we would have had a perfect circle vote.
Unfortunately I forgot to post the serious update shortly afterward, so I might have created the impression that I did seriously count it as a vote for celaph, even if the vote count doing so was a joke.
Actual vote count update coming in a few

[President Eden]

DAY 8 VOTE COUNT UPDATE THE (y+1)TH: ALL GOOD THINGS COME TO AN END EDITION

Fluminator (2): celaph, Hellenic Riot
aarodactyl (2): bozotheclown, ghug
kgray (1): Chaqa
Chaqa (1): aarodactyl
bozotheclown (1): Fluminator
ghug (1): kgray

Currently no one is set to come to an end at the end of Day 8 in approximately 6h10m. (But it's not because none of you are "good things." Well, strictly speaking, you aren't "things" so maybe it is. Hmm.)

[bozotheclown]

m,e

Do you have reasons? No ones actually even given a reason why they think I'm scum outside of gut feelings and asking you to expand on your damo townread.

Meta, NKA, VCA, and interactions with confirmed scum all point to bozo imo.

Here are some reasons:

1. You called out all of the other scum early, which could be distancing.
2. Your D1 vote for teacon looks like a bus because you voted for him late in the day when he had no votes and there were a number of 2 vote wagons available, and some 1 vote wagons on players you called out as potential scum.
3. You said Hamilton was "confirmed town" after he posted his notes, but at D2 EOD you indicated you would be willing to vote for him again after he posted his notes.
4. You said you did not want to vote for damo D2 because you thought HR believed damo was a PR, but later said it was because you thought HR had a cop scan on damo.
5. You said you didn't know cop was not an available role, which sounds like a faked town slip.
6. You avoided voting for damo D5 until he was the apparent DK, then claimed you were always planning on voting for him.
7. You voted for HR and Balki D6 when I would expect you to realize they were both town.

8. The potential scum slip.
9. The Nephthys NK.

[bozotheclown]

"Don't pick on the new guy" kinda irritates me when y'all just killed the one new player who actually obvtowned.

Nobody is saying don't pick on the new guy, ghug, but obviously people have different ideas of what it means to obvtown. Aaro obvtowned to me D3. He was clearly genuinely excited - not relieved that he wasn't caught as smuggler - excited that town had gotten 2 scum and that he could be part of solving it because it wasn't based on a bunch of people's meta that he didn't know. And unless/until aaro flips scum, you will never convince me that he made a joke about yoyo and Jamie talking in their QT as their teammate when Bunny and Jamie were just outed.

I think aarodactyl, as scum, would be capable of reacting on D3 the way he would be expected to react as town. I find aarodactyl's changing reads on Bonatogether D6 and D7 that aligned with what was best for his own survival more alignment indicative.

[Fluminator]

1. You called out all of the other scum early, which could be distancing.

1. Probably your best reason. But really not enough.

2. Your D1 vote for teacon looks like a bus because you voted for him late in the day when he had no votes and there were a number of 2 vote wagons available, and some 1 vote wagons on players you called out as potential scum.

2. I also tried to convince people to start compiling onto teacon (which Jamiet even shaded me for doing lol).

3. You said Hamilton was "confirmed town" after he posted his notes, but at D2 EOD you indicated you would be willing to vote for him again after he posted his notes.

3. Brain was also really townie in his final moments. In the chaos of the moment I considered briefly to go back to Brian (considering I hadn't even read his notes and hadn't fully considered if made sense as a planned thing)

4. You said you did not want to vote for damo D2 because you thought HR believed damo was a PR, but later said it was because you thought HR had a cop scan on damo.

4. We've been over this. These were two different distinct times. I thought HR might have a clear on him when he was townreading him and hinting that the GM's PMed him this. Later on he said he fully trusted Damo's townread on Hamilton so then I considered he thought Damo was the cop until a check made that impossible. I'm honestly still worked up that HR tried to blame me for his awful play here.

5. You said you didn't know cop was not an available role, which sounds like a faked town slip.

5. That's a "this setup is confusing" slip. Not a townslip. And even if it was, I'd do that as town.

6. You avoided voting for damo D5 until he was the apparent DK, then claimed you were always planning on voting for him.

6. I spent the whole day shading damo and defending celaph. There is no way I vote for celaph at the end there and not look extremely suspicious, so if I was hedging my bets, I wouldn't be doing that. I was almost certain damo was dying that day anyway and only holding back to keep the wagons equal to get info on Celaph.

You voted for HR and Balki D6 when I would expect you to realize they were both town.

7. Why did you think they were town?

Yes, my point was you are probably both town.

No, he's going to retract his claim and say some nonsense about a reaction test or protecting the real PR or something else. Just watch.

I have seen him do this as scum before. He feels the need to wriggle around and do weird stuff. I'm sure that he does not intend to continue with his claim.

OK, he probably should not be allowed to survive until the end of the game in case he was trying a "no scum would ever fake claim PR in that situation" strategy, but I did not think we need to find out D6.

You said they were probably both town, but that we should kill HR before the end probably. Disappointed Balki wasn't the actual priest to get HR killed as one of your last kills?

8. The potential scum slip.

8. Not a scumslip

9. The Nephthys NK.

9. I know nothing about Nephthys or his normal play. I wouldn't have had any contribution into killing him.

[bozotheclown]

1. You called out all of the other scum early, which could be distancing.

1. Probably your best reason. But really not enough.

2. Your D1 vote for teacon looks like a bus because you voted for him late in the day when he had no votes and there were a number of 2 vote wagons available, and some 1 vote wagons on players you called out as potential scum.

2. I also tried to convince people to start compiling onto teacon (which Jamiet even shaded me for doing lol).

3. You said Hamilton was "confirmed town" after he posted his notes, but at D2 EOD you indicated you would be willing to vote for him again after he posted his notes.

3. Brain was also really townie in his final moments. In the chaos of the moment I considered briefly to go back to Brian (considering I hadn't even read his notes and hadn't fully considered if made sense as a planned thing)

4. You said you did not want to vote for damo D2 because you thought HR believed damo was a PR, but later said it was because you thought HR had a cop scan on damo.

4. We've been over this. These were two different distinct times. I thought HR might have a clear on him when he was townreading him and hinting that the GM's PMed him this. Later on he said he fully trusted Damo's townread on Hamilton so then I considered he thought Damo was the cop until a check made that impossible. I'm honestly still worked up that HR tried to blame me for his awful play here.

5. You said you didn't know cop was not an available role, which sounds like a faked town slip.

5. That's a "this setup is confusing" slip. Not a townslip. And even if it was, I'd do that as town.

6. You avoided voting for damo D5 until he was the apparent DK, then claimed you were always planning on voting for him.

6. I spent the whole day shading damo and defending celaph. There is no way I vote for celaph at the end there and not look extremely suspicious, so if I was hedging my bets, I wouldn't be doing that. I was almost certain damo was dying that day anyway and only holding back to keep the wagons equal to get info on Celaph.

You voted for HR and Balki D6 when I would expect you to realize they were both town.

7. Why did you think they were town?

No, he's going to retract his claim and say some nonsense about a reaction test or protecting the real PR or something else. Just watch.

I have seen him do this as scum before. He feels the need to wriggle around and do weird stuff. I'm sure that he does not intend to continue with his claim.

OK, he probably should not be allowed to survive until the end of the game in case he was trying a "no scum would ever fake claim PR in that situation" strategy, but I did not think we need to find out D6.

You said they were probably both town, but that we should kill HR before the end probably. Disappointed Balki wasn't the actual priest to get HR killed as one of your last kills?

8. The potential scum slip.

8. Not a scumslip

9. The Nephthys NK.

9. I know nothing about Nephthys or his normal play. I wouldn't have had any contribution into killing him.

I thought Balki was claiming to confuse the scum, and I thought what he said there was part of that. If it turned out to be true, it was possible HR was trying something as scum to look like he was protecting a PR. However, there was no reason to vote for either D6, when you voted for both of them.

I heavily scumread HB until he obvtowned.

Then why post you “wouldn’t switch cause it would tie”

Shouldn’t it more have been
“HB on Townes and I scumread Brain?”

Apology accepted.

Also, who are you? This is the first I've noticed you this game.

I’m the person that’s bad enough to not be noticed but not too bad everyone gets shitty at me all the time.

And the person who caught you this game xx

[Fluminator]

Yes I'm aware Nephthys thought HB and I were scum.

[Chaqa]

Yes I'm aware Nephthys thought HB and I were scum.

Neph was the parity cop... it's not completely impossible he had a scan result?

Flum, say it isn't so?

[Fluminator]

Considering he was wrong on HB, I'm going with a no

[bozotheclown]

Yes I'm aware Nephthys thought HB and I were scum.

Neph was the parity cop... it's not completely impossible he had a scan result?

Flum, say it isn't so?

It is impossible, because he would not have received a result until N2.

[bozotheclown]

@bozo am I the only person you find suspicious?

no

Can you do a deep dive on one of them then?

You didn't respond to this question:

Well, yes, but there's some serious memes to be had in them deciding to RB-Kill Neph but not Durga

To be fair, they assassinated durga (I guess to be fair, they could have assassinated EMC, but that would have been a choice)

What did you mean here, couldn't they have RBed and assassinated Durga?

[celaph]

I went back and compared Flum's performances D1 in both M59 (scum flum) and M61 (town flum). I know that neither game is a great analogue for this, but I found it useful none the less. Also, is there a way to see alignments of players who didn't die by the end of game like Flum in M60?

Overall, I think Flum's play this game aligns much better with his town play in M61 play than his scum play in M59. The primary point is that town flum seems to throw out a lot of scum accusations with very little justification. This game he sussed Bunny, bosox, ghug, teacon, damo, ND, and HB. For most of these susses, Flum does very little to justify them in the moment. In M61, Flum tries to get votes for Durga, susses ghug and says rdr might be scum. Then pushes Jamie. Again, as an outsider there is very little justification to his reads. His M59 play felt like the polar opposite of all that. Aside from worcej, he puts sus on basically no one outside of his votes.

Overall, I want to give Flum town points for his D1 behavior. I'm tempted to spare him right now and join another wagon. That said, I think I prefer Flum an Bozo to aaro so I'll stay on flum for now.

[aarodactyl]

no

Can you do a deep dive on one of them then?

You didn't respond to this question:

To be fair, they assassinated durga (I guess to be fair, they could have assassinated EMC, but that would have been a choice)

What did you mean here, couldn't they have RBed and assassinated Durga?

Yes but there’s a much smaller chance of her surviving and even smaller of her surviving and getting info.

[aarodactyl]

Can you do a deep dive on one of them then?

You didn't respond to this question:

What did you mean here, couldn't they have RBed and assassinated Durga?

Yes but there’s a much smaller chance of her surviving and even smaller of her surviving and getting info.

Mostly I was pointing out it wasn’t the same situation as with Neph. I think it’s very weird to rb/kill Neph though.

[celaph]

More (slightly less organized) Flum thoughts:

His initial read on teacon feels a little forced. What in teacon's early messages warranted an iso by page 57? I think that most of the substance in teacon's early messages comes on page 48, yet I think Flum's messages indicate that he hadn't read those yet. Notably, Flum's latest post before that was on page 45 and 5 minutes before his teacon read Flum asked "Has anything of substance happened yet that I should read?" He had one message in between that question and his teacon read, a joking response to a post Durga had just made which doesn't suggest he went back to reread. On a more nitpicky note, if Flum didn't feel like tryharding D1 why is he reading teacon's iso so early?

People have mentioned earlier that Flum's sus on Jamie incorrectly said that Jamie started his posting limit D2 when he did it D1, though I'm not convinced that is particularly alignment indicative. I would expect scum to pay greater attention to other scum than the average player and so it would be an even weirder thing for him to miss as scum. And it's a weird thing to lie about given how easily it can be corrected.

Flum's vote on Yoyo strikes me as very much not a bus as it seems he expects Yoyo to flip town.

Does Jamie call out Flum making teacon viable if the only two people on the wagon (Flum and Bunny) are bussing?

[celaph]

All told I think I'll switch to ##vote Bozo for now, but I'll be back before EoD to see I should change it.

[bozotheclown]

Can you do a deep dive on one of them then?

You didn't respond to this question:

What did you mean here, couldn't they have RBed and assassinated Durga?

Yes but there’s a much smaller chance of her surviving and even smaller of her surviving and getting info.

I had a theory about why Durga was not RBed, and if you are scum it would explain why you were so interested in whether Durga was assassinated or NKed:

Durga sets the hammer down, having boarded all her windows and the door up tight. “They’re NOT going to get me tonight,” she says defiantly. “No way. They’d have to blow the whole building up to get to me.”

“Deal,” mutters a voice outside the boarded window.

“What?!”

A loud explosion tears through the building. The roof caves in on Durga. The Republic’s first responders rush to the scene.

“Damn, this is bad,” says one of the guards. “The rubble crushed her. There’s no way she’s going to make it.”

“I’m… not… dead… yet…” Durga struggles to speak.

“She’s beyond help in this life,” says an old man in robes, “but perhaps I can help her prepare for the next.”

The workers move her to the makeshift remnants of her bed, and the old man begins to speak gently to her.

“We’d better leave them be,” says another guard. The two leave the room.


Meanwhile, on the other side of town. . .


e.m.c^42 walks through the alley. He just penned his magnum opus, and wanted to get inspiration.

The alley is normally safe and sound, but emc doesn’t notice that the guards who were usually at their stations were gone.

So lost in thought, in fact, was he, that he didn’t even hear the silenced pistol fire. The shot was clean through the back of his head; he never knew he died.


DURGA is ON HER DEATHBED!
E.M.C^42 has DIED. He was a TOWNIE of the PEOPLE’S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

You have roughly 48 hours to select a daykill. All players may post in the main thread now.

Just to clarify, Durga was assassinated right? The setup said it would be stated in the reveal.

My theory was that the mafia had Jamie RB a teammate so that if Durga was saved and tracked Jamie, it would look like Jamie was trying to RB the doctor when he was revealed as the RBer. In this case the mafia may have NKed Durga instead of assassinate her so that she would survive if she was protected by a medic, knowing that it would not be revealed if Durga was NKed or assassinated.

[bozotheclown]

It looks like there is momentum to kill me today, which is an unfortunate development for town.

The last scum is well hidden, but from what I have seen from aarodactyl, I believe he is more than capable of pulling off what he has done as scum, and the way he has voted in a way to draw the least suspicion makes me think he is most likely to be the last scum.

I have explained the things I find suspicious about Fluminator. There is nothing that could not be done by town, but the accumulation of these things makes Fluminator my second most likely scum suspect.

I may not be avaiable at EOD.