M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[aarodactyl]

If you were active when damo and celaph were close, what would you have done?

I probably would have brought up all of the weird math again. I don’t remember which side Manaic was on but I would have pointed out to them that damo was more suspicious based on their list than celaph. I didn’t agree with their analysis but it seemed to be one of the reason they didn’t like celaph.

You did make some post when the vote was 5-4, but did not bring these things up.

My mistake then. It’s hard to remember exactly what I was thinking a week ago

[bozotheclown]

I'm going to feel so stupid if aaro does turn out to be scum, but literally everything he's doing that you're scumreading him for can be explained by him being a new player. He doesn't push hard to get wagons on his scumreads - fine. He asks experienced players about people's meta - fine. He isn't confident in his vote - fine.

I get that you can see a scum motivation for it but there's an equally plausible town explanation for it too.

But everyone else has obvtowned.

aaro obvtowned after Bunny was caught

I have found a reason why everyone looks like they are town, so I do not think we can go by that. It makes me worried you could still be the last scum.

[aarodactyl]

can someone point me to where Bona obvtowned?

After Jamie flipped, Bona referred time then as a goon. I don’t agree this is was a townslip but a few people did

[Fluminator]

Bozo, why do you townread bona?

[bozotheclown]

can someone point me to where Bona obvtowned?

After Jamie flipped, Bona referred time then as a goon. I don’t agree this is was a townslip but a few people did

I think it was his response to being questioned about it that made it look unlikely he was deliberately trying to town slip, if he was, he was not well prepared to sell it.

[kgray]

But everyone else has obvtowned.

aaro obvtowned after Bunny was caught

I went and read a bunch of day 3 and did not see anything obvtown from aaro. Can you point me to what you think was him obvtowning?

So I see 3 main "groups" of posts from aaro D3:

(1) After Durga's tracker claim, where he was talkative and engaged when he could have just stayed out of it and remained hidden. It's not like he had been particularly active up to that point. I think him taking part in the hypo-jailer claims the way he did (impulsively posting, not thinking through things carefully) showed he wasn't afraid of being caught or of looking suspicious.

(2) When Bunny came back and aaro had a bunch of posts trying to talk him through what was going on. I guess he could have been boldly trying to coach his teammate through the situation, but I don't see that. Bunny's an experienced player, so I think scum!aaro would have been likely to let him figure things out for himself and not get too involved.

(3) After Durga outed Bunny - this is the towniest part imo. Aaro dug into Bunny and questioned him when Bunny tried to make excuses, but in a way that didn't give Bunny the option to back out. Sure, aaro had a couple of hedgy posts about how Bunny could be the jailer after all, but if he were scum and knew Bunny was caught I don't see him making those suggestions. Also, his tone was so loose and carefree here, he wasn't worried about his team having just lost two members. He called out worcej for claiming jailer in a believable, frustrated towny way. And I'm not going to quote all of them, but look at how many jokes he makes starting at like page 295 in his ISO. He's having fun, his team just had a huge boost. He's not deflated or worried because his team just took a hit.

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, why do you townread bona?

Here is an example of a post I doubt a scum would make:

<clipped>

TL;DR:
I think there was a push by scum to get him voted off.

* I name ghug, kgray, and flum as scum here, with a coordinator doing his thing in QT. Vecna, HR, and Durga also do not come out of this looking good. I dislike aaro and celaph using very similar reasoning right after each other.

* I like worcej, damo slightly less. They stayed out and correctly townread brain.

That would be a lot of town members for a scum to suspect on little evidence, and it is this type of thing that likely lead to Bonatogether being widely scum read.

By contrast, aarodactyl has kept his scum reads small and consistent, which is a good way for scum to survive.

[kgray]

Any reason to scum read Fluminator is good.

lol okay bozo. I don't think aaro is scum. You don't think bona is scum. What to vote Flum together?

If we find out aarodactyl is town, Fluminator would be my next choice. I am not convince he did not scum slip about celaph.

And if it's bona and not aaro today? Then you still think it's aaro over Flum?

[Fluminator]

How did I change my answer? I said he was a goon, and then aaro showed that jamie was actually the roleblocker, and then I said I missed that. What changed?

You said you were using it as a general term for bad guy, and then you said you did mean mafia goon.

I reread the whole conversation, and yes, I did say that I was using it as a general term for bad guy, and then I said that he was goon. However, is it contradictory for me to refer to him as a goon in the general sense while also thinking that he is a goon in the generic mafia sense?

If I were scum, why would I try and fake this? Why would I try and claim that Jamie was a goon when it says that he's the roleblocker.

Ehh, Bona's very self aware it's a townie thing to do what he did. I think he's smart enough to pull of the fake slip.

[kgray]

Maybe, but if he had done that, Fluminator might be more willing to vote for aarodactyl today, so maybe aarodactyl was just thinking ahead.

I just do not see how you can town read aarodactyl for not jumping on the Fluminator wagon, I think scum would be more likely to do what aarodactyl was doing, waiting to see which wagons would stick around.

Flum is not voting for Bona because Bona scumread him, and he's not townreading aaro because aaro didn't scumread him. But even if he were, you're suggesting that aaro predicted this situation 2 days in advance. But at the same time, you're accusing him of being unable to react in a convincing way to Balki's flip.

This doesn't add up. I'm really tempted to sheep you but I can't do it on aaro.

And my townread of aaro has nothing to do with him not jumping on a Flum wagon.

Where did your lofty opinion of bozo's play come from?

I've said this like 8 times. I've been in several games where bozo has made it to kylo and had the game solved, and he gets NK'd and people don't listen to him, and town loses. Once it was me he caught and we 100% killed him for being onto us, and nobody cared.

[kgray]

I'm going to feel so stupid if aaro does turn out to be scum, but literally everything he's doing that you're scumreading him for can be explained by him being a new player. He doesn't push hard to get wagons on his scumreads - fine. He asks experienced players about people's meta - fine. He isn't confident in his vote - fine.

I get that you can see a scum motivation for it but there's an equally plausible town explanation for it too.

aarodactyl didn't say he was new to mafia.

I’ve said I’ve only played in person and never on a forum or any online setting.

Yeah this is good enough for me.

[kgray]

But everyone else has obvtowned.

aaro obvtowned after Bunny was caught

I have found a reason why everyone looks like they are town, so I do not think we can go by that. It makes me worried you could still be the last scum.

Why does Chaqa look town? Why does ghug look town? Why does celaph look town?

[bozotheclown]

lol okay bozo. I don't think aaro is scum. You don't think bona is scum. What to vote Flum together?

If we find out aarodactyl is town, Fluminator would be my next choice. I am not convince he did not scum slip about celaph.

And if it's bona and not aaro today? Then you still think it's aaro over Flum?

Are you assuming Bonatogether will flip town? aarodactyl and Fluminator would be my choices to DK of the remaining players, I am not sure of the order.

[kgray]

You said you were using it as a general term for bad guy, and then you said you did mean mafia goon.

I reread the whole conversation, and yes, I did say that I was using it as a general term for bad guy, and then I said that he was goon. However, is it contradictory for me to refer to him as a goon in the general sense while also thinking that he is a goon in the generic mafia sense?

If I were scum, why would I try and fake this? Why would I try and claim that Jamie was a goon when it says that he's the roleblocker.

Ehh, Bona's very self aware it's a townie thing to do what he did. I think he's smart enough to pull of the fake slip.

Do you think if he were pulling off a fake slip he'd say that he meant goon as in a "general bad guy" and not goon as in "non-PR scum"?

Wouldn't saying he meant goon as in "non-PR scum" be more of a fake townslip? So why does he initially say he meant "general bad guy"?

[kgray]

If we find out aarodactyl is town, Fluminator would be my next choice. I am not convince he did not scum slip about celaph.

And if it's bona and not aaro today? Then you still think it's aaro over Flum?

Are you assuming Bonatogether will flip town? aarodactyl and Fluminator would be my choices to DK of the remaining players, I am not sure of the order.

For this question, yes, obviously. Because if he's not then none of this matters and we've already won.

Or it's a scumslip!

[Hellenic Riot]

What are people's thoughts on Chaqa? I remember hearing someone (I think HR) saying that Chaqa's game was very townie, can they elaborate?

I'll ##vote bona as well as he is the one I town read the least.

Chaqa is a notoriously lazy player as both alignments who openly admits to not reading half of the games he plays in. The fact Chaqa nailed teacon D1, made a concerted effort to get Jamie D2 (and again at the start of D3), and then on top of that went for Damo D5 all adds up to Chaqa essentially bussing his entire team (aside from Bunny). His townreads, again aside from Bunny, have also been pretty good.

Essentially the only way Chaqa is scum is if he deliberately hardbussed all his teammates and made the game as hard as possible for himself. The only thing that makes that seem even the slightest bit plausible is that Chaqa is also not known for being right very often

[bozotheclown]

aaro obvtowned after Bunny was caught

I have found a reason why everyone looks like they are town, so I do not think we can go by that. It makes me worried you could still be the last scum.

Why does Chaqa look town? Why does ghug look town? Why does celaph look town?

It would take a while for me to cite specific examples the way you have with aarodactyl, but the way aarodactyl was playing D3 is very different than the way he has been reluctant to vote for his scum reads since D5.

[aarodactyl]

I have found a reason why everyone looks like they are town, so I do not think we can go by that. It makes me worried you could still be the last scum.

Why does Chaqa look town? Why does ghug look town? Why does celaph look town?

It would take a while for me to cite specific examples the way you have with aarodactyl, but the way aarodactyl was playing D3 is very different than the way he has been reluctant to vote for his scum reads since D5.

Yeah. I’m not hesitant when we have confirmed scum. Talking about mechanics was one of the first things I felt like I could engage with in this game.

[Fluminator]

I reread the whole conversation, and yes, I did say that I was using it as a general term for bad guy, and then I said that he was goon. However, is it contradictory for me to refer to him as a goon in the general sense while also thinking that he is a goon in the generic mafia sense?

If I were scum, why would I try and fake this? Why would I try and claim that Jamie was a goon when it says that he's the roleblocker.

Ehh, Bona's very self aware it's a townie thing to do what he did. I think he's smart enough to pull of the fake slip.

Do you think if he were pulling off a fake slip he'd say that he meant goon as in a "general bad guy" and not goon as in "non-PR scum"?

Wouldn't saying he meant goon as in "non-PR scum" be more of a fake townslip? So why does he initially say he meant "general bad guy"?

The "general bad guy" was part of the same performance in the sense he right away accused ghug of trying to catch him in the scumslip of "knowing Jamiet was a role-goon".

[kgray]

I have found a reason why everyone looks like they are town, so I do not think we can go by that. It makes me worried you could still be the last scum.

Why does Chaqa look town? Why does ghug look town? Why does celaph look town?

It would take a while for me to cite specific examples the way you have with aarodactyl, but the way aarodactyl was playing D3 is very different than the way he has been reluctant to vote for his scum reads since D5.

Yes, I agree it's different. And I think it's because he had things he could analyze and contribute that were more tangible than gut reads. I don't think being unsure of reads is scummy, especially from someone who is new to online mafia and this community.