M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[Hellenic Riot]

@ghug you asked me why I thought Balki was a bad kill. The reason is that town was going to have to resolve that eventually by killing either him or HR. And until then, we wouldn’t fully trust either of them.

There's a fairly obvious flaw in this logic in that the scum patently knew we were both town and therefore that one of us would retract in that scenario... Which meant that that would only work if they thought they could get us miskilled after the retraction. Which is a pretty doubtful strategy given I'd townread Balki and indeed he had townread me.

[aarodactyl]

Going back to this post where aarodactyl voted for Hamilton D2, aarodactyl saying Hamilton was "pushing the ND wagon" D1 was not really accurate, Hamilton seemed rather uncertain on ND up until he voted for him at EOD. This could have been a case where aarodactyl was fabricating a read on Hamilton. I also think BunnyGo questioning Jamie about the potential scum slip was an odd thing for aarodactyl to scum read BunnyGo for, BunnyGo had me believing he was town based on that.

I must have misread something if you’re right about HB being hesitant about tea. I got a lot of people (especially HR because of the similar abbreviations) confused even at the time I posted that.

Also I know bunny in real life and they love gimmicks.

You said Hamilton was pushing ND's wagon, not teacon, and HR was not voting for ND.

Yep. I messed up a lot of stuff in that response. That’s what I get for posting in the middle of the night from bed.

I don’t know why I said tea instead of ND. If I recall correctly HB made a lot of small comments dinging ND D1 but I agree that’s not pushing a wagon. It looks like I misused the phrase in the first post.

[aarodactyl]

If the thing with Jamie was your reason for scum reading BunnyGo, why didn't you scum read him for it when you posted this at D1 EOD:

I reread ghug's posts D5 when I thought damo being the smuggler would implicate him. I could not find anything too suspicious, but ghug is good as scum. I looked at ghug's case against you more recently, and there are some thing he pointed out I found suspicious:

Yeah I can definitely see aaro and teacon as teammates.

I'm not scum, so we're not teammates.

On a more serious note, I'm pretty sure he was only throwing out softballs because there bunny and I had some weird interactions and he was trying to make the thread not weird.

Why do you think teacon would do that as scum?

Why didn't you give BunnyGo any credit for voting for teacon?

My main reason to scumread bunny was the QT thing but that was also D1 so your point still sort of stands. However, I’m pretty sure I’ve made it clear that while I scumread bunny, I second guessed myself a lot because they’ll the only person I knew going into this game and I’ve never played mafia with them. So I was hesitant to make a scumread on them.

As for the Teacon comment, based on how D1 was going, people were reading being nice to new players as town. Which is funny in retrospect because it was mostly bunny trying to be nice.

As for not giving bunny credit for voting for Teacon, to be honest, that was probably a mistake. The way I did that post was to list things that were suspicious and then I scumread people that did two of those things. So basically a two strike system. That doesn’t allow for movements in the town direction, just scum. Probably wasn’t a good system

[aarodactyl]

aarodactyl brings up the possibility of the scum giving fake targets not long after BunnyGo has done so.

That was part of the original plan. I was just rehashing it because people didn’t read a lot of the thread

Do you know who first brought it up?

No but it was discussed a fair bit at the start. There were also a lot of jokes made about it. I think kgray was part of the discussion but I honestly don’t remember. You can reread d3 if you want to see for sure

[aarodactyl]

I think you could be right about aarodactyl, it seems he has just been going along with whoever has been up for the DK, he may just be good at avoiding suspicion as scum.

I really dislike the “they seem like town which means they’re probably very good town argument”.

I think you meant "very good scum".

Yep. Another mistake from typing on my phone late at night with dyslexia. Also the frustration here is mostly at Ghug to be honest but it’s really frustrating to come back to a lot of cherry-picking through my posts, especially early game when I was having trouble keeping track of what was going on.

[aarodactyl]

aarodactyl was voting for worcej up until 2 minutes before the post he referred to here, so it is a little odd worcej would be the player he would come up with for town reading D2.

I’m pretty sure I voted for worcej because I was getting fed up, not because I thought he was scum. I think I also said that

OK, but it is still odd that you would bring him up as a potential N2 jail target if you wanted to get him out of the game despite not scum reading him.

I just found the vote you’re referring to so I could get on the same page. To be honest, it looks like I didn’t connect worcej with their past actions at that time. They had a completely different note for the beginning of d3 and I was confusing a lot of people all of the time. When I went back to reread, they came across as very towny. I standby my vote though that’s a discussion for postgame because it’s related to their defense of their language.

[ghug]

Going back to this post where aarodactyl voted for Hamilton D2, aarodactyl saying Hamilton was "pushing the ND wagon" D1 was not really accurate, Hamilton seemed rather uncertain on ND up until he voted for him at EOD. This could have been a case where aarodactyl was fabricating a read on Hamilton. I also think BunnyGo questioning Jamie about the potential scum slip was an odd thing for aarodactyl to scum read BunnyGo for, BunnyGo had me believing he was town based on that.

Actually I want to respond to this more now that I’m caught up (if I missed anything, let me know).

I hate so much of what I had to respond to. This last claim is one of the most frustrating. Are you seriously saying it’s weird that I scumread my cousin correctly? You were wrong about it and I was right.

Also if you have the time to dig through my posts, you might as well dig through Ghug. They’ve been scumreading me for a super long time with very little given support. Their main argument seems to be that I seem towny. I didn’t really care when it started because lots of people were supporting me being clear but most of them are dead now.

My argument has never been that you seem townie. My argument is that you seem smart and competent, which is usually something that gets new players townread, but you haven't done much that actually strikes me as townie, and so many others have.

[aarodactyl]

Ah...couldn't we all just claim "not jailer"? Wait..no...that outs the jailer...Doesn't this out the jailer anyways? Doesn't the scum know who they visited so they'll just say it and pretend they're the jailer?

Yeah, it will out the jailer. However, you don't know if you were visited by the tracker, so there are at least two different scum that could have been tracked. They also don't know which night they were visited in. As a result, this exercise is going to force scum to be honest about who they visited each night. Which will be good for a number of reasons later on.

If you were scum reading BunnyGo, why did you explain everything before he gave his jailer claims?

A couple of reasons, first of all they had a really rough few days and it was midnight for them and I was trying to prevent them from having to reread a dozen pages. Also, it seemed like they didn’t want to include answers, and I thought this would push them to do so.

I think being explicit about what happened is a better strategy that forcing quick reactions because then people could claim they were confused and rushed. Which is exactly what bunny did.

[aarodactyl]

@ghug you asked me why I thought Balki was a bad kill. The reason is that town was going to have to resolve that eventually by killing either him or HR. And until then, we wouldn’t fully trust either of them.

There's a fairly obvious flaw in this logic in that the scum patently knew we were both town and therefore that one of us would retract in that scenario... Which meant that that would only work if they thought they could get us miskilled after the retraction. Which is a pretty doubtful strategy given I'd townread Balki and indeed he had townread me.

I think they at least let it go on for another day or two though. Neither of you felt that trustworthy to me before that NK.

[ghug]

I really dislike the “they seem like town which means they’re probably very good town argument”.

I think you meant "very good scum".

Yep. Another mistake from typing on my phone late at night with dyslexia. Also the frustration here is mostly at Ghug to be honest but it’s really frustrating to come back to a lot of cherry-picking through my posts, especially early game when I was having trouble keeping track of what was going on.

How am I cherry-picking?

[aarodactyl]

Going back to this post where aarodactyl voted for Hamilton D2, aarodactyl saying Hamilton was "pushing the ND wagon" D1 was not really accurate, Hamilton seemed rather uncertain on ND up until he voted for him at EOD. This could have been a case where aarodactyl was fabricating a read on Hamilton. I also think BunnyGo questioning Jamie about the potential scum slip was an odd thing for aarodactyl to scum read BunnyGo for, BunnyGo had me believing he was town based on that.

Actually I want to respond to this more now that I’m caught up (if I missed anything, let me know).

I hate so much of what I had to respond to. This last claim is one of the most frustrating. Are you seriously saying it’s weird that I scumread my cousin correctly? You were wrong about it and I was right.

Also if you have the time to dig through my posts, you might as well dig through Ghug. They’ve been scumreading me for a super long time with very little given support. Their main argument seems to be that I seem towny. I didn’t really care when it started because lots of people were supporting me being clear but most of them are dead now.

My argument has never been that you seem townie. My argument is that you seem smart and competent, which is usually something that gets new players townread, but you haven't done much that actually strikes me as townie, and so many others have.

I guess that’s a fair distinction. It does feel weird for most of those players to be dead now though and to have a bozo tunnel on me.

[aarodactyl]

I think you meant "very good scum".

Yep. Another mistake from typing on my phone late at night with dyslexia. Also the frustration here is mostly at Ghug to be honest but it’s really frustrating to come back to a lot of cherry-picking through my posts, especially early game when I was having trouble keeping track of what was going on.

How am I cherry-picking?

The cherry-picking was a reference to bozo. I made a comment a few days ago about how it seems like confirmation bias. I don’t really want to fight about whether it’s valuable or not considering it’s not 1am anymore

[Hellenic Riot]

@ghug you asked me why I thought Balki was a bad kill. The reason is that town was going to have to resolve that eventually by killing either him or HR. And until then, we wouldn’t fully trust either of them.

There's a fairly obvious flaw in this logic in that the scum patently knew we were both town and therefore that one of us would retract in that scenario... Which meant that that would only work if they thought they could get us miskilled after the retraction. Which is a pretty doubtful strategy given I'd townread Balki and indeed he had townread me.

I think they at least let it go on for another day or two though. Neither of you felt that trustworthy to me before that NK.

Why do you think that, though? It was very clear yesterday that neither myself nor Balki would be daykilled, and made even more clear during the night that that wouldn't take place until at least the day before KILO should we both still be alive. Why do you think the scum would keep alive people who won't be daykilled and instead kill someone who might be?

[aarodactyl]

There's a fairly obvious flaw in this logic in that the scum patently knew we were both town and therefore that one of us would retract in that scenario... Which meant that that would only work if they thought they could get us miskilled after the retraction. Which is a pretty doubtful strategy given I'd townread Balki and indeed he had townread me.

I think they at least let it go on for another day or two though. Neither of you felt that trustworthy to me before that NK.

Why do you think that, though? It was very clear yesterday that neither myself nor Balki would be daykilled, and made even more clear during the night that that wouldn't take place until at least the day before KILO should we both still be alive. Why do you think the scum would keep alive people who won't be daykilled and instead kill someone who might be?

I don’t think you’re wrong but I still wouldn’t have done it as scum. Even if you’re fairly safe, I think there are people I have as stronger town clears.

[ghug]

I think they at least let it go on for another day or two though. Neither of you felt that trustworthy to me before that NK.

Why do you think that, though? It was very clear yesterday that neither myself nor Balki would be daykilled, and made even more clear during the night that that wouldn't take place until at least the day before KILO should we both still be alive. Why do you think the scum would keep alive people who won't be daykilled and instead kill someone who might be?

I don’t think you’re wrong but I still wouldn’t have done it as scum. Even if you’re fairly safe, I think there are people I have as stronger town clears.

Why did you express surprise that it "worked" when Balki flipped?

[Hellenic Riot]

I think they at least let it go on for another day or two though. Neither of you felt that trustworthy to me before that NK.

Why do you think that, though? It was very clear yesterday that neither myself nor Balki would be daykilled, and made even more clear during the night that that wouldn't take place until at least the day before KILO should we both still be alive. Why do you think the scum would keep alive people who won't be daykilled and instead kill someone who might be?

I don’t think you’re wrong but I still wouldn’t have done it as scum. Even if you’re fairly safe, I think there are people I have as stronger town clears.

If you're going to give some half-assed NK Analysis, why is it that you're only going to do it to self-clear? If you're going down that road, why do you think the scum somehow bought Balki's claim there? What does Balki dying over me tell you?

[Chaqa]

It's curious to me that you didn't protect Balki, HR. Trying to WIFOM the NK?

[Hellenic Riot]

It's curious to me that you didn't protect Balki, HR. Trying to WIFOM the NK?

Nothing Balki had done this game gave me the impression that he'd be worth prolonging his life into an extra day

[ghug]

It's curious to me that you didn't protect Balki, HR. Trying to WIFOM the NK?

Nothing Balki had done this game gave me the impression that he'd be worth prolonging his life into an extra day

He went from a probable daykill to drawing the nightkill off of you, so that's pretty cool.

[Hellenic Riot]

It's curious to me that you didn't protect Balki, HR. Trying to WIFOM the NK?

Nothing Balki had done this game gave me the impression that he'd be worth prolonging his life into an extra day

He went from a probable daykill to drawing the nightkill off of you, so that's pretty cool.

True, I meant more in terms of what a dying Balki would actually be able to contribute to finding scum

(Also, I may or may not have forgotten to send an order last night because I was so checked out and the idea that Balki would be believed there was incomprehensible)