M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[aarodactyl]

Oh. Okay, I get it now. Sorry Balki.

I'm torn between being skeptical that you didn't get it before and liking this as the response aaro should have given.

I think you could be right about aarodactyl, it seems he has just been going along with whoever has been up for the DK, he may just be good at avoiding suspicion as scum.

I really dislike the “they seem like town which means they’re probably very good town argument”.

[aarodactyl]

I'm torn between being skeptical that you didn't get it before and liking this as the response aaro should have given.

I think you could be right about aarodactyl, it seems he has just been going along with whoever has been up for the DK, he may just be good at avoiding suspicion as scum.

It is a little suspicious how much he's been using "info" as a reason for his votes. I hate that, but I think town does it a lot too.

I hate it too. It’s mostly me being clueless though and not being able to read anyone.

[aarodactyl]

So the jailer has to out at some point during the night, preferably giving who they saved each night.


Durga outs her report at EoN. If they don't match up, we win. If they don't match up AND the wrong scum member has cc'd jailer, double-win.

I like this take. It also hedges against the very very small chance that Durga isn't tracker and is trying to pull out the jailer while getting Jamie killed.

I would like to hear why Jamie is 100% scum given what Durga saw just in case they're misinterpreting the rules.

Oh I stopped before this post which absolutely sucks.

The rules are confusing and Durga said she caught three scum and I had no idea how that was possible. I was trying to ask that in a nice way.

[aarodactyl]

You thought Chaqa was town N1, before teacon flipped? Can you point me to a place where you voiced your worcej townread?

Oh you're 100% right. I forgot teacon didn't flip until N1 was over. I wouldn't have chosen that.

As for Worcej:

Oh, I forgot to mention that I'm slightly leaning town on Worcej and Vecna after reading the first 50 pages.

To be honest, I think I gave away at the start of talking about who'd we jail that I'm not the jailer. So I don't think my answers matter too much. It's also a hard question to answer because I didn't really have any townread D1 because I was getting used to the game, and D2 my townreads were vashta, brain with townleads on vecna, kgray, and worcej. Unfortunately brain died and vashta claimed vig, so I can't put them down as jailed.

aarodactyl was voting for worcej up until 2 minutes before the post he referred to here, so it is a little odd worcej would be the player he would come up with for town reading D2.

I’m pretty sure I voted for worcej because I was getting fed up, not because I thought he was scum. I think I also said that

[aarodactyl]

Aaro said he was cool with everyone claiming who they could have visited because of the holy info, then claimed Durga twice, then said he would have visited Vash night one, and then finally claimed Chaqa and "worked".

Normally I hate this but maybe it looks ok given that he'd have to be smuggler?

Yeah. It was weird of me. However, I still don’t really get why it was wrong to claim non-jailer town. Then I got pushed into an answer and it was silly.

[aarodactyl]

Looking back at my D1 posts, it looks like my only townread was flum because I thought that voting off new players was a good idea. Which in retrospect is a strange choice to make. But for historical accuracy I'll switch my answer to flum, worcej, since it was correctly pointed out that I got confused about when tea was flipped.

Having to reread your own posts to find out who you were town reading seems like something a scum might have to do.

It was d3 and they were asking about d1 reads. Keep in mind this was a game with 24 strangers

[aarodactyl]

Hello, who are you? Your name is vaguely familiar. I'm afraid if you want to play Mafia you'll need to wait until the Mafia 63 sign-ups open.

fake, you two talk all the time in the mafia QT.

This was in the middle of a bunch of joke posts from aaro but it seems especially bold now knowing that yoyo was actually scum.

I just don't see why he suddenly becomes so jokey and seems so much more comfortable when two of his teammates have been outed if he's scum.

Yeah. That would be a bold move. Mostly I was finally thinking getting comfortable posting a lot in this game and there was a making fun of Yoyo train happening.

[aarodactyl]

I mean I'm operating on the assumption that we do this mass info gathering today and then the jailer outs tonight as previously planned with Durga still doing the Player X reveal at EoN. No need to cancel that plan.

I guess if player X lies about their visiting, we don’t have to reveal jailer?

aarodactyl brings up the possibility of the scum giving fake targets not long after BunnyGo has done so.

That was part of the original plan. I was just rehashing it because people didn’t read a lot of the thread

[aarodactyl]

My conclusion about D3 is that aarodactyl had a good understanding of the setup and for the most part said the right things about how town should be proceeding, which is not necessarily alignment indicative.

I agree with this to be honest. I was confused that I got townread for it so much

[aarodactyl]

<clipped>

town
-brain (going back and reading, I agree with a lot of their reads and they are in line what has happened since).
-vash (based only on voting)
-kgray (I don't feel strongly about the their voting record after looking back at the posts. Also rdr seems to think they were town, and they seemed to have good d1 reads)

Scum
-bunny (he's done a lot of things that I am suspicious of. Including the QT thing with Cel and the weird interaction with trying to get jamie to scumslip. I'm still not sure about this read though)
-HB (I sussed them yesterday for their reaction to the QT thing and also for voting for ND. Their D1 posting was mostly casual talk and then pushing the ND wagon. Also I don't like their reads from day 68)
-Balki (I still think they're likely scum based on their voting. However not enough to jump on that wagon yet)

I'm going to jump on the HB wagon for now since it's my strongest feeling. I'm very open to switching though.

##vote HB

Going back to this post where aarodactyl voted for Hamilton D2, aarodactyl saying Hamilton was "pushing the ND wagon" D1 was not really accurate, Hamilton seemed rather uncertain on ND up until he voted for him at EOD. This could have been a case where aarodactyl was fabricating a read on Hamilton. I also think BunnyGo questioning Jamie about the potential scum slip was an odd thing for aarodactyl to scum read BunnyGo for, BunnyGo had me believing he was town based on that.

I must have misread something if you’re right about HB being hesitant about tea. I got a lot of people (especially HR because of the similar abbreviations) confused even at the time I posted that.

Also I know bunny in real life and they love gimmicks.

[aarodactyl]

Going back to this post where aarodactyl voted for Hamilton D2, aarodactyl saying Hamilton was "pushing the ND wagon" D1 was not really accurate, Hamilton seemed rather uncertain on ND up until he voted for him at EOD. This could have been a case where aarodactyl was fabricating a read on Hamilton. I also think BunnyGo questioning Jamie about the potential scum slip was an odd thing for aarodactyl to scum read BunnyGo for, BunnyGo had me believing he was town based on that.

Actually I want to respond to this more now that I’m caught up (if I missed anything, let me know).

I hate so much of what I had to respond to. This last claim is one of the most frustrating. Are you seriously saying it’s weird that I scumread my cousin correctly? You were wrong about it and I was right.

Also if you have the time to dig through my posts, you might as well dig through Ghug. They’ve been scumreading me for a super long time with very little given support. Their main argument seems to be that I seem towny. I didn’t really care when it started because lots of people were supporting me being clear but most of them are dead now.

[bozotheclown]

<clipped>

town
-brain (going back and reading, I agree with a lot of their reads and they are in line what has happened since).
-vash (based only on voting)
-kgray (I don't feel strongly about the their voting record after looking back at the posts. Also rdr seems to think they were town, and they seemed to have good d1 reads)

Scum
-bunny (he's done a lot of things that I am suspicious of. Including the QT thing with Cel and the weird interaction with trying to get jamie to scumslip. I'm still not sure about this read though)
-HB (I sussed them yesterday for their reaction to the QT thing and also for voting for ND. Their D1 posting was mostly casual talk and then pushing the ND wagon. Also I don't like their reads from day 68)
-Balki (I still think they're likely scum based on their voting. However not enough to jump on that wagon yet)

I'm going to jump on the HB wagon for now since it's my strongest feeling. I'm very open to switching though.

##vote HB

Going back to this post where aarodactyl voted for Hamilton D2, aarodactyl saying Hamilton was "pushing the ND wagon" D1 was not really accurate, Hamilton seemed rather uncertain on ND up until he voted for him at EOD. This could have been a case where aarodactyl was fabricating a read on Hamilton. I also think BunnyGo questioning Jamie about the potential scum slip was an odd thing for aarodactyl to scum read BunnyGo for, BunnyGo had me believing he was town based on that.

I must have misread something if you’re right about HB being hesitant about tea. I got a lot of people (especially HR because of the similar abbreviations) confused even at the time I posted that.

Also I know bunny in real life and they love gimmicks.

You said Hamilton was pushing ND's wagon, not teacon, and HR was not voting for ND.

[bozotheclown]

Going back to this post where aarodactyl voted for Hamilton D2, aarodactyl saying Hamilton was "pushing the ND wagon" D1 was not really accurate, Hamilton seemed rather uncertain on ND up until he voted for him at EOD. This could have been a case where aarodactyl was fabricating a read on Hamilton. I also think BunnyGo questioning Jamie about the potential scum slip was an odd thing for aarodactyl to scum read BunnyGo for, BunnyGo had me believing he was town based on that.

Actually I want to respond to this more now that I’m caught up (if I missed anything, let me know).

I hate so much of what I had to respond to. This last claim is one of the most frustrating. Are you seriously saying it’s weird that I scumread my cousin correctly? You were wrong about it and I was right.

Also if you have the time to dig through my posts, you might as well dig through Ghug. They’ve been scumreading me for a super long time with very little given support. Their main argument seems to be that I seem towny. I didn’t really care when it started because lots of people were supporting me being clear but most of them are dead now.

If the thing with Jamie was your reason for scum reading BunnyGo, why didn't you scum read him for it when you posted this at D1 EOD:

scum!bunny loves talking down at people. so does twon!bunny though, so that's NAI.

he was trying to get me to stop being cajun and wanted me to focus. I dont see any world in this universe where he does that as scum

I've never played mafia with Bunny before, but I know him fairly well. And it would pretty in character to do that as either role. Also he would have shared the resources he did was either role as well. I don't have a read on him either way, but I would caution using those events as evidence for him being town.

I reread ghug's posts D5 when I thought damo being the smuggler would implicate him. I could not find anything too suspicious, but ghug is good as scum. I looked at ghug's case against you more recently, and there are some thing he pointed out I found suspicious:

I actually like your point, but the conclusion seems wrong.

He started out by throwing softballs to aarodactyl, and then also threw in the other two. He did follow up on it though when they did not respond.

If it was meant as a way to lift them up, do you think they would just ignore it?

Yeah I can definitely see aaro and teacon as teammates.

I'm not scum, so we're not teammates.

On a more serious note, I'm pretty sure he was only throwing out softballs because there bunny and I had some weird interactions and he was trying to make the thread not weird.

Why do you think teacon would do that as scum?

For better or worse, I'm realizing that I need to reread a lot of this game now that I'm starting to be able to tell people apart. I'm going to include my reads here. There's going to be a lot people not included, but I'll make another post tomorrow once I do a lot of rereading and note taking.

-First of all, as a new player, the whole interaction between Bunny and Celaph about QT was incredibly suspicious. I hadn't heard the term QT before, but it was obviously a trap to get Celaph to scumslip. My personal take is that it was coordinated by the person that's allowed to day post in mafia chat (I'm not scum, I just read the rules). I think it's also possible to read it as null. However, I think it's a large stretch to read it as celaph definitely being town. I just looked back and the people that jump on the celaph town wagon were Durga, Damo, HB, and Bunny.

-I have no idea what the meta is for how scum vote. However, the rest of the bullet points are going to be about voting records anyways. If Maniac ends up being scum, all the votes on ND starting with mine are super suspicious. However, if only look at the votes that happened to make ND go ahead of tea , the suspicious ones to me (based on voting ND) are Jamiet, brain, Kgrey, and HB.

-I'm also suspicious of Balki for switching to tea with 1 minute left. To me this reads as someone trying to pass as town by casting a vote for scum that wasn't going to matter. It also got them off of a single person wagon (HB) that they jumped on with 4 minutes left. But maybe I'm underestimating the last minute swings.

-Everyone that ended on a one person wagon is suspicious to me. This includes Bona, Bozo, EMC, Maniac, Neph, Vecna, Worcej, and Yoyo.

-On the other hand, I think Vashta is town based on the timing of their votes for Tea. I think HR and Chaqa might be town for the same reason. However, this depends on whether or not Maniac is town or not (meaning they're probably town if Maniac is town or null if Maniac is scum).

-I've skimmed the entire game, and I agree that Kgrey's voting was very suspicious at the end of the round. I'm going to see who pushed this line of reasoning, but for now I think it's compelling.

Unfortunately I have a lot of reasons to suspect different people of being scum, and there's very little overlap between the lists I created. As a result, I don't have that much confidence in the following reads. However, I think adding my opinion tonight is helpful anyways.

Town reads:
Vashta (for putting tea two votes ahead of ND)

Scum reads:
Balki (their voting seemed super strange)
Celaph (for their respond to the QT question)
HB (for being in the overlap of two of my lists)
Kgrey (for being in the overlap of the QT thing and for switching voting from tea to ND)

Why didn't you give BunnyGo any credit for voting for teacon?

[dargorygel]

A Slightly Less Casual Counting
(picture casual Friday at the Bailey Building and Loan)

Bonatogether (2): Chaqa, Flum
aarodactyl (2); ghug, bozo
Unvote (1): Bona

Not yet depositing a vote:
aaro, celaph, HR, kgray

No one is doomed yet.

(so next Christmas, Ima gonna make an “It’s a Wonderful Life” themed webDipMaf game… because it’s time has come!)

[bozotheclown]

I guess if player X lies about their visiting, we don’t have to reveal jailer?

aarodactyl brings up the possibility of the scum giving fake targets not long after BunnyGo has done so.

That was part of the original plan. I was just rehashing it because people didn’t read a lot of the thread

Do you know who first brought it up?

[bozotheclown]

I'm torn between being skeptical that you didn't get it before and liking this as the response aaro should have given.

I think you could be right about aarodactyl, it seems he has just been going along with whoever has been up for the DK, he may just be good at avoiding suspicion as scum.

I really dislike the “they seem like town which means they’re probably very good town argument”.

I think you meant "very good scum".

[bozotheclown]

Oh you're 100% right. I forgot teacon didn't flip until N1 was over. I wouldn't have chosen that.

As for Worcej:



To be honest, I think I gave away at the start of talking about who'd we jail that I'm not the jailer. So I don't think my answers matter too much. It's also a hard question to answer because I didn't really have any townread D1 because I was getting used to the game, and D2 my townreads were vashta, brain with townleads on vecna, kgray, and worcej. Unfortunately brain died and vashta claimed vig, so I can't put them down as jailed.

aarodactyl was voting for worcej up until 2 minutes before the post he referred to here, so it is a little odd worcej would be the player he would come up with for town reading D2.

I’m pretty sure I voted for worcej because I was getting fed up, not because I thought he was scum. I think I also said that

OK, but it is still odd that you would bring him up as a potential N2 jail target if you wanted to get him out of the game despite not scum reading him.

[bozotheclown]

She tracked person X that acted on person Y. She wasn't given the action. However, the only town role it could have been was the jailer based on possible roles. There are also several scum roles. However, if she saws who person X is, they're going to claim jailer

Ah...couldn't we all just claim "not jailer"? Wait..no...that outs the jailer...Doesn't this out the jailer anyways? Doesn't the scum know who they visited so they'll just say it and pretend they're the jailer?

Yeah, it will out the jailer. However, you don't know if you were visited by the tracker, so there are at least two different scum that could have been tracked. They also don't know which night they were visited in. As a result, this exercise is going to force scum to be honest about who they visited each night. Which will be good for a number of reasons later on.

If you were scum reading BunnyGo, why did you explain everything before he gave his jailer claims?

[Bonatogether]

I feel like it's best we daykill Bona today, and then get paranoid about deep threats after that. We basically have to kill him before lylo anyway, and if we do it now we'll have a lot of townies still alive to reanalyze in the night.

Maybe I'm just being lazy at this point.

On assumption that I'm town, who's the deep threat?

[Chaqa]

I feel like it's best we daykill Bona today, and then get paranoid about deep threats after that. We basically have to kill him before lylo anyway, and if we do it now we'll have a lot of townies still alive to reanalyze in the night.

Maybe I'm just being lazy at this point.

On assumption that I'm town, who's the deep threat?

Kgray, Ghug, or Celaph, maybe.