M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[Fluminator]

How are there only 3 scum remaining.

[kgray]

At the moment trying to figure out how I feel about your and bona's interactions, you've read him so differently than most people the majority of the game. My gut says that it's TvT which bona look better in my book, but I'm having a really hard time getting a read on you.

Why do you think Bona's town?

My feeling is that it's likely either T/T or S/S relationship between you two. I find the ghug scum+bona town line unlikely because I don't think you bother defending him in favor of the easy miskill. Looking back I'm finding the bona scum + ghug town line less likely both because of the confidence in your read and that while I dislike that bona's defense is primarily coming from you, I don't think your defense of bona is bad.

In terms of T/T or S/S, my gut leans TvT for a few reasons. For one, I think a bona scum flip looks really bad for you and so I don't think you take the risk as scum. Secondly, on rereading bona I was struck by his point about feeling that kgray is trying to pocket him. I don't think that scum fears about being pocketed this much and I think it's one of his townier posts without your involvement. The hesitation comes because I feel that your questioning of him were relative softballs and because he hasn't expressed similar fears about being pocketed by you.

scum!ghug does defend townies that are getting lots of scumreads. I think it helps him seem townier (becuase of reasoning like you have here, and it helps him "go against the grain" in a safe way), and scum!ghug prioritizes appearance over miskills. Also, he knows that town has lots of options for miskills so him defending one townie isn't going to hurt his scum game much.

[bozotheclown]

Lets say I try to start a wagon on Bunny end of day instead of teacon.
Would you then think I'm bussing Bunny, and scummy for not voting teacon and Jamiet in this situation?

If you had previously announced that teacon was scum and later stated you would not be voting for teacon, then probably.

It's kind of weird you're not even mentioning the fact that teacon was vanilla and Jamiet/Bunny were both scum PRs. If town bozo genuinely believed I was bussing teacon while protecting jamiet/bunny, I feel like this would have crossed your mind.
This is the second time I've had to forcefeed you the more compelling case on me.

That sounds like a nice scum tactic.

[ghug]

Everyone's jail claims:
HR*: Kgray Damo
Flum*: HR Kgray
kgray": HR Vecna
aaro: Flum Worcej
Balki*: Flum Vecna
Worcej: Balki Damo
EMC: damo maniac
ghug*: kgray flum
bozo": HR Vecna
bona: brain celaph
bunny: ghug Kgray
maniac: vashta ghug
damo: ghug ghug
Celaph*: Bona Vecna
Vecna: Kgray Brainbomb
Jamiet: Vecna Neph
Chaqa: Bunny Balki

*Could be the smuggler telling the truth about who they visited. Vecna and Maniac gave impossible answers. Aaro did as well, but was scolded and forget them.

Should not damo also have an asterisk if you're willing to give yourself one? Also, is there any difference between the asterisk and the quotation marks that bozo and kgray have?

Yes, whoops.

The quotation marks are signals to my scum teammates.

[ghug]

Why do you think Bona's town?

My feeling is that it's likely either T/T or S/S relationship between you two. I find the ghug scum+bona town line unlikely because I don't think you bother defending him in favor of the easy miskill. Looking back I'm finding the bona scum + ghug town line less likely both because of the confidence in your read and that while I dislike that bona's defense is primarily coming from you, I don't think your defense of bona is bad.

In terms of T/T or S/S, my gut leans TvT for a few reasons. For one, I think a bona scum flip looks really bad for you and so I don't think you take the risk as scum. Secondly, on rereading bona I was struck by his point about feeling that kgray is trying to pocket him. I don't think that scum fears about being pocketed this much and I think it's one of his townier posts without your involvement. The hesitation comes because I feel that your questioning of him were relative softballs and because he hasn't expressed similar fears about being pocketed by you.

scum!ghug does defend townies that are getting lots of scumreads. I think it helps him seem townier (becuase of reasoning like you have here, and it helps him "go against the grain" in a safe way), and scum!ghug prioritizes appearance over miskills. Also, he knows that town has lots of options for miskills so him defending one townie isn't going to hurt his scum game much.

Scumghug prioritizes miskills over all else. I didn't bus a teammate after summit the game you saw me play scum, and I only bussed summit after Durga and bozo had jumped on. I'll give you the rest.

[ghug]

Should not damo also have an asterisk if you're willing to give yourself one? Also, is there any difference between the asterisk and the quotation marks that bozo and kgray have?

Yes, whoops.

The quotation marks are signals to my scum teammates.

This was supposed to say I forgot to asterisk Chaqa too.

[Fluminator]

If you had previously announced that teacon was scum and later stated you would not be voting for teacon, then probably.

It's kind of weird you're not even mentioning the fact that teacon was vanilla and Jamiet/Bunny were both scum PRs. If town bozo genuinely believed I was bussing teacon while protecting jamiet/bunny, I feel like this would have crossed your mind.
This is the second time I've had to forcefeed you the more compelling case on me.

That sounds like a nice scum tactic.

A scum tactic is laying low until someone types up a large case against you. Then you countering with a massive counter-case where you decide I'm scum and try to fit everything into that narrative, missing major things you wouldn't if you were genuinely looking into me.

[kgray]

What did you think of my Balki case?

I agree with you that he doesn't seem as inquisitive/hunting as he did as town. Especially now that we have a flipped scum (who was a wagon at EOD) I'd have expected town!Balki to be more excited about using that info than he was.

But I also feel like scum!Balki would hide that better, and I'm not really scumreading him. I definitely wouldn't vote for him at this point.

Oh, possibly. The HB vote is really one of the worst parts of Balki's EoD1. I can just about buy the idea that a wagon on Bunny with 10 minutes to go was possible in that scenario, but the HB vote was never going anywhere and had all the fortitude of a chocolate fireguard.

Yeah. Even if he felt like Hamilton was the best chance for being scum, I really think town!Balki would have fought harder to convince people of Hamilton or to vote for whichever of the lead wagons he preferred.

##vote Balki

What changed your mind about Balki D2?

I don't really know. Obviously it was that conversation with HR but I don't know what it was specifically. I've been feeling like Balki is off this whole game and I keep going back and forth on whether or not that's scummy. I just have a hard time seeing Balki's scumgame as disengaged. I feel like he'd be more active and subtly manipulative or something. But I don't really have anything to base that on.

[kgray]

I am scumreading you. I do see what you're getting at, but I didn't move off of teacon. You did. It's pretty suspicious.

I also made teacon a real wagon in the first place (after not including him on a list of people I wanted to vote, so I had plenty of room to stay away), and I tried to encourage emc to join it.

Ah, I see. Whereas I assumed he just wasn't here for it, and just checked it and put it off as tangential. My main null point on him is that I don't think he lurks as scum. Kind of thought he just wasn't here for holiday reasons.

Yeah I don't think bozo lurking is scum-indicative either. I'm not voting for him today.

I'm still suspect of damo too but I doubt he's getting traction today. What do you think of teacon?

Was this what you were referring to when you said you encouraged emc to join teacon's wagon?

Yup.

[damo666]

Is he? Why can't scum do that?

In fact, that fake cop thing stinks more of someone setting themselves up to fakeclaim a PR if they're at risk of being daykilled than it does of somehow attempting to draw a nightkill.

I think then he'd more likely disclose it during the day. However outing yourself as vt is scummy so maybe it is fake (it's certainly elaborate enough) and I've been a bit hasty. So not quasi-townclear but middle of the pack.

Balki remains the slot I'm most suspicious of.

Yuk!

Balki remains the slot of which I am most suspicious.

That's better.

If outing yourself as VT is scummy, why did you claim impossible jail targets?

Why impossible?

[bozotheclown]

It's kind of weird you're not even mentioning the fact that teacon was vanilla and Jamiet/Bunny were both scum PRs. If town bozo genuinely believed I was bussing teacon while protecting jamiet/bunny, I feel like this would have crossed your mind.
This is the second time I've had to forcefeed you the more compelling case on me.

That sounds like a nice scum tactic.

A scum tactic is laying low until someone types up a large case against you. Then you countering with a massive counter-case where you decide I'm scum and try to fit everything into that narrative, missing major things you wouldn't if you were genuinely looking into me.

I don't do that as scum.

[kgray]

I still think were just looking at a scenario where all scum are in the group HR/Bozo/Damo/Balki/Maniac

You may be right. I've helped you.

Why do you townread HR?

[Fluminator]

I remember Balki's scumgame being way more engaged, but I also remember his town game being more engaged too.
I'm confused why he's townreading ghug and claiming he's "pocketed" because ghug townread him, when literally the basis of his scumreads last towngame were whoever townread him or avoided scumreading him.

He made no mention of reconsidering that tactic when I asked him what he learned from that game. And it was also one of his last mafia games, so I feel like he'd have mentioned that massive difference in play and reading people.

[bozotheclown]

I agree with you that he doesn't seem as inquisitive/hunting as he did as town. Especially now that we have a flipped scum (who was a wagon at EOD) I'd have expected town!Balki to be more excited about using that info than he was.

But I also feel like scum!Balki would hide that better, and I'm not really scumreading him. I definitely wouldn't vote for him at this point.

Yeah. Even if he felt like Hamilton was the best chance for being scum, I really think town!Balki would have fought harder to convince people of Hamilton or to vote for whichever of the lead wagons he preferred.

##vote Balki

What changed your mind about Balki D2?

I don't really know. Obviously it was that conversation with HR but I don't know what it was specifically. I've been feeling like Balki is off this whole game and I keep going back and forth on whether or not that's scummy. I just have a hard time seeing Balki's scumgame as disengaged. I feel like he'd be more active and subtly manipulative or something. But I don't really have anything to base that on.

The reason I found this suspicious is that BunnyGo made a case against Balki and you dismissed it, but HR convinced you to vote for Balki.

[bozotheclown]

I also made teacon a real wagon in the first place (after not including him on a list of people I wanted to vote, so I had plenty of room to stay away), and I tried to encourage emc to join it.

Yeah I don't think bozo lurking is scum-indicative either. I'm not voting for him today.

I'm still suspect of damo too but I doubt he's getting traction today. What do you think of teacon?

Was this what you were referring to when you said you encouraged emc to join teacon's wagon?

Yup.

You were not voting for teacon when you posted that. Why emc and no one else?

[ghug]

Flum, you still haven't told me why you lied to Tom about me.

[kgray]

Balki and Fluminator looked more like town in responsing to Durga's claim, while damo, Bonatogether, and Chaqa have dropped to the bottom of my list by POE. Fluminator is moving down my list again for the way he suspected all of the revealed scum without ever voting for them.

This is so weird to me. I've never seen bozo make a POE argument before? And he's townreading Balki/Flum based on non-VCA reasons?

What was townie about their responses? What are your strong reasons for townreading other poeple that moved damo/bona/Chaqa down on your list?

Did you forget that Flum voted for teacon...?

I had Fluminator and Balki ranked 11 and 13 on my N3 list, I certainly was never town reading them. I moved them up because I thought they were participating with the discussion after Durga claimed, but on review this is more true for Balki than Fluminator. I must have had another reason for moving Fluminator higher, but I do not remember what is was. In any case, Fluminator may be my top scum read now.

I also never said I had "strong reasons" for town reading anyone.

Do you think Fluminator voting for teacon should cause me to town read him or scum read him? I pointed out why I think that could have been a bus.

I think if you're using POE as a way to find scum, you need to have relatively strong reasons to townread people who you eliminate from your POE.

I can see Flum's vote for teacon as either alignment. I think HR's vote looks more like a bus, though.

[kgray]

Maybe Nephthys was on to Fluminator and kgray.

How and why are you looping me into this? I wasn't shading Neph with my comment at all, and you should realize that context.

Regardless of your intention, Nephthys found it suspicious. It definitely looks like a defense of Fluminator, and Nephthys seemed rather certain Fluminator had slipped by saying Hamilton was obviously town after he posted his notes, yet Fluminator expressed willingness to still vote for Hamilton after that.

Who were you criticizing for not voting for one of the top wagons?

Obviously I was shading damo and worcej.

[Tom Bombadil]

Looking in a vacuum I find Flums ask of me to compare to really long ISOs for something he could have said in 5 seconds to be potentially scum trying to distract a townclear from doing anything useful before his death.

[kgray]

What did you think of my Balki case?

I agree with you that he doesn't seem as inquisitive/hunting as he did as town. Especially now that we have a flipped scum (who was a wagon at EOD) I'd have expected town!Balki to be more excited about using that info than he was.

But I also feel like scum!Balki would hide that better, and I'm not really scumreading him. I definitely wouldn't vote for him at this point.

This is literally the definition of null