M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[Vecna]

So I've been doing a bit of thinking, (I know this doesn't happen often, but bear with me)

So if we set up a game of 18 players 1 Alan, 2 Betty, 3 Carl.....18 Roberta and asked them to list everybody from town to scum out the gate, the lists wouldn't mean much (obviously). But if we then scored those lists with Alan =1, Betty =2, etc. We'd see that Alan's list would add up to 170 (2+3+4........+18) and Roberta's list would add up to 153 (1+2+3.......+17). This is fairly obvious, Alan excludes a low number: 1. And Roberta excludes the highest number: 18.

So this tells us that the people at the bottom of the list should have a lower overall score. Now rather than asking them to list all the players we ask them to list just five players, we would still expect the players at the bottom of the list to have slightly lower overall scores for their top 5 scum.

Now rather than list the players alphabetically, we list them like bozo did in his experiment.

We should still expect people at the bottom of the list to have a slightly lower number than those at the top of the list. (Hope you're all still with me).

IF however, people at the bottom of the list have substaintially HIGHER totals for the five scum we could deduce one of two things:

(1) Perhaps players who are regarded as scum by their piers (and are therefore bottom of the list) are really good at identifying scum bahaviour.
(2) Players who are regarded as scum are trying to get other players mis-killed and they think if they list the players others see as scum as scum, they can get easily kills.

I think (2) is more likely than (1).

So if we now look at players in the middle of Bozo's list 8 - Flum and 9 - Bozo.
Flum lists Ghug, Damo, HR, Balki & Bozo as his top 5 scum (obviously excluding Jamie) for a score of 52.

Bozo on the other hand lists Damo, Bona, Chaqa, Yoyo & Balki as his scum reads for a total score of 68.

I deduce from this that Flum is town and is scum reading people independently and Bozo is scum who wants to scum read players he thinks the group will kill in order to save himself. (Obv he could also be listed fellow scum here).

So based on the above logic town to scum list would look something like this...

Flum (52)
Ghug (54)
Vecna (56)
HR (58)
Kgray (59)
Damo (65)
Chaqa (around 66)
Celaph (67)
Aarodactyl (68)
Bozo (68)

Yoyo, Balki and I didn't compile lists. Nor did Tom, Durga and EMC but we know now they're all town. If someone wanted to read through yoyo, Balki and me and score us against bozo's list to give us notional scores, that'll be good.

So with all that in mind. ##voteBozo

Huh. I think I really like this post. Does scum ever think like this?

This feels like such a townslip. A genuine one.

[Vecna]

Well, I will say that I think it's unlikely scum!ghug puts this much effort into a reread. Honestly probably town

Is this more of a meta comment on ghug that you don't think scum ghug would put in this level of effort or do you feel that effort is town indicative in general? I can't speak to ghug's meta, but in general it feels that effort would be part of someone's town meta that they could most easily replicate.

Did the encryptor tell you to say this?

And after just assuming Celaph is town all throughout his analysis, now he's back to attacking the slot

[celaph]

Responding to Bozo's post here (don't want to take up a bunch of space with a quote).

It felt reactive to me not because you didn't scum read flum earlier, but because I don't feel that you make that series of posts if flum doesn't make his. I based this mostly off of your N3 reads list that has flum more or less in the middle and your first post after flum's post. While you do say that flum is moving down your list, you also say that he looks more town in responding to Durga's claim. That phrasing doesn't make me think flum fell too far on your list probably putting him around 5th scummiest person. I don't see you writing these unprompted about your read on the 5th scummiest person. That's why it feels reactive.

On rereading it, I still found many points that I felt where likely NAI, but I also think I let those points play too prominent of a role in my initial understanding as there are some good points, like the one bozo highlighted, that don't look great for flum.

[Vecna]

If Nephytys is usually a good player he's probably scum. If not I see him being overconfident town who picks something and rolls with it whatever happens.

Don't forget about Jamiet.

Don't let Bunny continue to slip under the radar either. He might be town, but I think he needs more pressure.

Bus Jamie, bus BunnyGo, discredit Nephthys right before he gets killed?

I feel if Bozo is actually reading as attentively as he claims, he would know this is not a very original take and has already been brought up multiple times.

[Vecna]

If Nephytys is usually a good player he's probably scum. If not I see him being overconfident town who picks something and rolls with it whatever happens.

Don't forget about Jamiet.

Don't let Bunny continue to slip under the radar either. He might be town, but I think he needs more pressure.

Bus Jamie, bus BunnyGo, discredit Nephthys right before he gets killed?

so original. i have punctuation

lol even drunk me was calling out that stuff

[celaph]

I'm pretty sure maniac is scum but flipping jamiet makes the most sense today because he actually could be an important role

In addition to ghug's question on why maniac is scum, wouldn't maniac be more likely to be a scum PR as it makes sense to send goons on kills to protect scum PR for this very case?

[Vecna]

Bus Jamie, bus BunnyGo, discredit Nephthys right before he gets killed?

so original. i have punctuation

If Nephytys is usually a good player he's probably scum. If not I see him being overconfident town who picks something and rolls with it whatever happens.

Don't forget about Jamiet.

Don't let Bunny continue to slip under the radar either. He might be town, but I think he needs more pressure.

Despite my parity cop comment, you talking about the guy that just ended up dead and giving him special attention of all people for some reason does sound scummy to me

That was before Jamie and BunnyGo were confirmed scum.

And did I comment on it after those two became scum? Why, yes, I did.

[Vecna]

And I wasnt the only one

[celaph]

Is this more of a meta comment on ghug that you don't think scum ghug would put in this level of effort or do you feel that effort is town indicative in general? I can't speak to ghug's meta, but in general it feels that effort would be part of someone's town meta that they could most easily replicate.

Did the encryptor tell you to say this?

And after just assuming Celaph is town all throughout his analysis, now he's back to attacking the slot

I would hardly describe ghug's question as attacking my spot. It's a reaction test. All it did is give me anxiety over how to formulate a response knowing that how I answer was going to be read far more closely than what I actually said.

[Vecna]

I rather dislike Bozo’s recent response for multiple reasons:
(1) It is entirely reactive. I see no indication that if Flum didn’t post his argument on why Bozo is scum, that Bozo would have attacked flum in anything like this manner. If he was true in his conviction I don’t see why he would wait for flum like this.
(2) His defense is clearly focused on undermining flum’s credibility rather than challenging flum’s interpretation of his earlier move or defending why he did it. Defending like this feels rather forced when done in context of point (1).
(3) It feels that the argument is full of points that either are not alignment indicative or possibly alignment indicative where bozo has spent minimal time arguing that they are alignment indicative.

My brain once again cannot help but seeing this pattern

The Ghug-Celaph-flum triangle

[Vecna]

Did the encryptor tell you to say this?

And after just assuming Celaph is town all throughout his analysis, now he's back to attacking the slot

I would hardly describe ghug's question as attacking my spot. It's a reaction test. All it did is give me anxiety over how to formulate a response knowing that how I answer was going to be read far more closely than what I actually said.

He is treating your slot in an unnatural way

[Vecna]

In fact, it makes me feel that Ghug is the communicator and he just handed you that doozy

[Vecna]

And in his huge analysis posts he just handed me the easiest of townreads twice to formulate a townread on you.

while it is very easy to think that Jamiet wouldve listed at least one scumread in his town townreads. Yet he did not.

[Vecna]

Oh, dont vanish now Celaph, were talking.

[Vecna]

Bozo finally coming alive. Interesting.

Can you answer this N2 question from Nephthys is a more specific way?

Obvtowned

Brain was town flailing, and the two main pushers of the wagon *cough HR and ghug cough* were really scummy near the end. The amount of times I've see scum start pretending to look for the partners of a person about to flip in a few minutes is a lot. (Only to be "shocked" when they flip town)
It gives them a lot of excuses to stay on a miskill wagon and look townie while doing it, without actually doing anything townie.

I didn't answer Neph because I felt like being patronizing to him because he came out of nowhere pretending to be hot stuff lol.

This reads quite genuine though. Not really sure at all if there is scum within Flum/bozo at this point.

Flum has this problem where his play fits really well in both a town mindset AND a scum mindset.

[Vecna]

Why is it irrational, are you sure Fluminator is town? Why do you seem to assume if I am scum Fluminator must be scum also?

I'm not sure Flum is town. I'm sure that the arguments you're making amount to:
"This is Flum. See Flum run. Scum Flum would run because America excels in Olympic track and field."
"This is Flum. Flum won't run. Scum don't run."
"I had toast for breakfast this morning. I didn't have pancakes because I don't want to support the Canadian maple syrup cabal. Flum is scum."

Flum could say anything and you'd construct a scum narrative.

I disagree, I pointed to a few very specific things I thought looked scum indicative:

1. Fluminator called out confirmed scum D1 but did not vote for them.

2. Fluminator's vote for teacon looks like a bus because there were six 2 vote wagons to choose from and he voted off all wagons.

3. Fluminator asked Vecna to expand on his town read of teacon while teacon was at risk of getting DKed by a wagon Fluminator started.

4. Fluminator scum read Hamilton and brainbomb D2 up until EOD, then call it town vs. town when it was too late.

5. Fluminator contradicted himself on how strongly he town read Hamilton at D2 EOD, avoided Nephthys questioning him on the contradiction, and turned it around to scum read Nephthys.

Bozo is at least getting a bit more spirited and cheeky. Im not sure if im just convincing my brain it was wrong because im seeing people suddenly now sheep my read when its convenient....

Doubts. Questioning the earlier read. Might be dumb.

[Vecna]

I'm not sure Flum is town. I'm sure that the arguments you're making amount to:
"This is Flum. See Flum run. Scum Flum would run because America excels in Olympic track and field."
"This is Flum. Flum won't run. Scum don't run."
"I had toast for breakfast this morning. I didn't have pancakes because I don't want to support the Canadian maple syrup cabal. Flum is scum."

Flum could say anything and you'd construct a scum narrative.

I disagree, I pointed to a few very specific things I thought looked scum indicative:

1. Fluminator called out confirmed scum D1 but did not vote for them.

2. Fluminator's vote for teacon looks like a bus because there were six 2 vote wagons to choose from and he voted off all wagons.

3. Fluminator asked Vecna to expand on his town read of teacon while teacon was at risk of getting DKed by a wagon Fluminator started.

4. Fluminator scum read Hamilton and brainbomb D2 up until EOD, then call it town vs. town when it was too late.

5. Fluminator contradicted himself on how strongly he town read Hamilton at D2 EOD, avoided Nephthys questioning him on the contradiction, and turned it around to scum read Nephthys.

1. Bad reason because I ended the day voting a different scum anyway.
2. It could be bussing, could not be. You could say that about any teacon vote.
3. I generally trust Vecna's townreads, and I lost the game for town not following his damo townread last game. He didn't really give much so I knew it wasn't a super strong townread.
4. This is all accurate. And?
5. I didn't contradict myself. I scumread him until he posted the reads list, and decided he was probably town when he posted his notes. And I'm still salty Vash shot him.

Nice. Good post. probably because youre buttering me up

[Vecna]

I disagree, I pointed to a few very specific things I thought looked scum indicative:

1. Fluminator called out confirmed scum D1 but did not vote for them.

2. Fluminator's vote for teacon looks like a bus because there were six 2 vote wagons to choose from and he voted off all wagons.

3. Fluminator asked Vecna to expand on his town read of teacon while teacon was at risk of getting DKed by a wagon Fluminator started.

4. Fluminator scum read Hamilton and brainbomb D2 up until EOD, then call it town vs. town when it was too late.

5. Fluminator contradicted himself on how strongly he town read Hamilton at D2 EOD, avoided Nephthys questioning him on the contradiction, and turned it around to scum read Nephthys.

1. Bad reason because I ended the day voting a different scum anyway.
2. It could be bussing, could not be. You could say that about any teacon vote.
3. I generally trust Vecna's townreads, and I lost the game for town not following his damo townread last game. He didn't really give much so I knew it wasn't a super strong townread.
4. This is all accurate. And?
5. I didn't contradict myself. I scumread him until he posted the reads list, and decided he was probably town when he posted his notes. And I'm still salty Vash shot him.

On 4, scum knew it was town vs. town.

On 5, the contradiction was that you later said Hamilton was obviously town as soon as he posted his notes, but at EOD you indicated you still might vote for him after he posted his notes:

I don't know how I feel about everyone pretending to be soooo confident brain is scum right now.
Maybe I'll move back to HB.....

I can't switch rn because it will tie

This might be town vs. town after all.

Ok, im calling it, this is probably TvT

[Vecna]

Flum I'm pretty sure is town. Bozo is just confusing me. HR is feeling less and less town. Don't like how mia Balki is but it's a slow day.

Vecna, time to game solve this thanks.

I got it

[Vecna]

Flum I'm pretty sure is town. Bozo is just confusing me. HR is feeling less and less town. Don't like how mia Balki is but it's a slow day.

Vecna, time to game solve this thanks.

What makes you sure Fluminator is town?

Bozo, for what its worth:

The mindset Flum had was exactly what I had in that Brainbomb vs HB EoD. I also wanted to switch because the brainbomb wagon just felt like it was a bad wagon that was just put on the table to sow chaos.

I also felt it was going to be a miskill. I also felt HB was most likely obv-town for the google doc, BUT was going to be a better daykill for game solving purposes. Then when brainbomb did that post after the day-end I thought it was him trolling us as scum again. It was a very rollercoasty type of emotional shittrain. I can 100% identify with Flum's devellopment.

Also, thanks for finally doing something that I can (hopefully not incorrectly) read into.

The fact people are now finally coming out to scumread you, while now youre finally doing something town indicative (to me at least) while they were all refusing to do so while you hadnt done fuck all is just weird.