M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[bozotheclown]

I think you made factually incorrect statements that supported your case, and you twice avoiding answering why you did not vote for either bo_sox or BunnyGo at the time you stated they were scum D1, instead keeping your vote on aarodactyl, while claiming I ignored a post you made about them over 24 hours later.

Why do you care about early d1 votes during the joke/shitposting stage?
I would have understood you being suspicious of me not voting them when it mattered. But the fact you focused on asking why I didn't vote for them when it didn't matter is what made me suspicious.

(suspicious because I think town bozo would have seen the former and focused on that, not the latter)

I wanted to see why you did not vote them when you did not have a problem moving your vote around early. That post later in the day looks suspicious because you felt it necessary to tell us why you were not voting for those 2 specifically.

[Fluminator]

Why is it irrational, are you sure Fluminator is town? Why do you seem to assume if I am scum Fluminator must be scum also?

I'm not sure Flum is town. I'm sure that the arguments you're making amount to:
"This is Flum. See Flum run. Scum Flum would run because America excels in Olympic track and field."
"This is Flum. Flum won't run. Scum don't run."
"I had toast for breakfast this morning. I didn't have pancakes because I don't want to support the Canadian maple syrup cabal. Flum is scum."

Flum could say anything and you'd construct a scum narrative.

I disagree, I pointed to a few very specific things I thought looked scum indicative:

1. Fluminator called out confirmed scum D1 but did not vote for them.

2. Fluminator's vote for teacon looks like a bus because there were six 2 vote wagons to choose from and he voted off all wagons.

3. Fluminator asked Vecna to expand on his town read of teacon while teacon was at risk of getting DKed by a wagon Fluminator started.

4. Fluminator scum read Hamilton and brainbomb D2 up until EOD, then call it town vs. town when it was too late.

5. Fluminator contradicted himself on how strongly he town read Hamilton at D2 EOD, avoided Nephthys questioning him on the contradiction, and turned it around to scum read Nephthys.

1. Bad reason because I ended the day voting a different scum anyway.
2. It could be bussing, could not be. You could say that about any teacon vote.
3. I generally trust Vecna's townreads, and I lost the game for town not following his damo townread last game. He didn't really give much so I knew it wasn't a super strong townread.
4. This is all accurate. And?
5. I didn't contradict myself. I scumread him until he posted the reads list, and decided he was probably town when he posted his notes. And I'm still salty Vash shot him.

[Fluminator]

Can you answer this N2 question from Nephthys is a more specific way?

Brain was town flailing, and the two main pushers of the wagon *cough HR and ghug cough* were really scummy near the end. The amount of times I've see scum start pretending to look for the partners of a person about to flip in a few minutes is a lot. (Only to be "shocked" when they flip town)
It gives them a lot of excuses to stay on a miskill wagon and look townie while doing it, without actually doing anything townie.

I didn't answer Neph because I felt like being patronizing to him because he came out of nowhere pretending to be hot stuff lol.

That still does not answer the question Nephthys asked. He did not ask you why you concluded both brainbomb and Hamilton were town, he asked why you said near EOD that you would not switch your vote back to Hamilton because it would cause a tie. Saying it that way implies you would switch your vote back if it would not cause a tie. Was that the case?

I doubt I would have. I would have considered it if I had the option and it was safe.

[Fluminator]

Why do you care about early d1 votes during the joke/shitposting stage?
I would have understood you being suspicious of me not voting them when it mattered. But the fact you focused on asking why I didn't vote for them when it didn't matter is what made me suspicious.

(suspicious because I think town bozo would have seen the former and focused on that, not the latter)

I wanted to see why you did not vote them when you did not have a problem moving your vote around early. That post later in the day looks suspicious because you felt it necessary to tell us why you were not voting for those 2 specifically.

Using my vote to get to know the new players better (when I'm largely a meta reads person) is better than voting someone meaninglessly.

[bozotheclown]

I'm not sure Flum is town. I'm sure that the arguments you're making amount to:
"This is Flum. See Flum run. Scum Flum would run because America excels in Olympic track and field."
"This is Flum. Flum won't run. Scum don't run."
"I had toast for breakfast this morning. I didn't have pancakes because I don't want to support the Canadian maple syrup cabal. Flum is scum."

Flum could say anything and you'd construct a scum narrative.

I disagree, I pointed to a few very specific things I thought looked scum indicative:

1. Fluminator called out confirmed scum D1 but did not vote for them.

2. Fluminator's vote for teacon looks like a bus because there were six 2 vote wagons to choose from and he voted off all wagons.

3. Fluminator asked Vecna to expand on his town read of teacon while teacon was at risk of getting DKed by a wagon Fluminator started.

4. Fluminator scum read Hamilton and brainbomb D2 up until EOD, then call it town vs. town when it was too late.

5. Fluminator contradicted himself on how strongly he town read Hamilton at D2 EOD, avoided Nephthys questioning him on the contradiction, and turned it around to scum read Nephthys.

1. Bad reason because I ended the day voting a different scum anyway.
2. It could be bussing, could not be. You could say that about any teacon vote.
3. I generally trust Vecna's townreads, and I lost the game for town not following his damo townread last game. He didn't really give much so I knew it wasn't a super strong townread.
4. This is all accurate. And?
5. I didn't contradict myself. I scumread him until he posted the reads list, and decided he was probably town when he posted his notes. And I'm still salty Vash shot him.

On 4, scum knew it was town vs. town.

On 5, the contradiction was that you later said Hamilton was obviously town as soon as he posted his notes, but at EOD you indicated you still might vote for him after he posted his notes:

I don't know how I feel about everyone pretending to be soooo confident brain is scum right now.
Maybe I'll move back to HB.....

I can't switch rn because it will tie

This might be town vs. town after all.

[Fluminator]

I think you made factually incorrect statements that supported your case, and you twice avoiding answering why you did not vote for either bo_sox or BunnyGo at the time you stated they were scum D1, instead keeping your vote on aarodactyl, while claiming I ignored a post you made about them over 24 hours later.

Why do you care about early d1 votes during the joke/shitposting stage?
I would have understood you being suspicious of me not voting them when it mattered. But the fact you focused on asking why I didn't vote for them when it didn't matter is what made me suspicious.

Flum, do you remember when I claimed scum D1 and town bozo tunneled me for days as I went to against scum and won repeatedly until he finally managed to get me killed?

I don't think I was in that game.
Not sure what to make of this sudden activity spike by bozo yet. But I have nothing better to do right now other than defend myself so I'm fine with the back and forth.

[bozotheclown]

Brain was town flailing, and the two main pushers of the wagon *cough HR and ghug cough* were really scummy near the end. The amount of times I've see scum start pretending to look for the partners of a person about to flip in a few minutes is a lot. (Only to be "shocked" when they flip town)
It gives them a lot of excuses to stay on a miskill wagon and look townie while doing it, without actually doing anything townie.

I didn't answer Neph because I felt like being patronizing to him because he came out of nowhere pretending to be hot stuff lol.

That still does not answer the question Nephthys asked. He did not ask you why you concluded both brainbomb and Hamilton were town, he asked why you said near EOD that you would not switch your vote back to Hamilton because it would cause a tie. Saying it that way implies you would switch your vote back if it would not cause a tie. Was that the case?

I doubt I would have. I would have considered it if I had the option and it was safe.

Why consider it if Hamilton had become "confirmed town":

I guess it's possible mafia NKed Hamilton because he basically became confirmed town.
Nephtys was not a good shot either though.

[bozotheclown]

(suspicious because I think town bozo would have seen the former and focused on that, not the latter)

I wanted to see why you did not vote them when you did not have a problem moving your vote around early. That post later in the day looks suspicious because you felt it necessary to tell us why you were not voting for those 2 specifically.

Using my vote to get to know the new players better (when I'm largely a meta reads person) is better than voting someone meaninglessly.

How did keeping your vote on aarodactyl help you get to know the other new players?

[Durga]

I'm pretty sure maniac is scum but flipping jamiet makes the most sense today because he actually could be an important role

[Durga]

Flum I'm pretty sure is town. Bozo is just confusing me. HR is feeling less and less town. Don't like how mia Balki is but it's a slow day.

Vecna, time to game solve this thanks.

[aarodactyl]

Flum I'm pretty sure is town. Bozo is just confusing me. HR is feeling less and less town. Don't like how mia Balki is but it's a slow day.

Vecna, time to game solve this thanks.

Idk I’m down for Balki to get modkilled for inactivity. I don’t think it even costs us a miskill. (I’m well aware that’s not what you’re referring to)

[bozotheclown]

I'm pretty sure maniac is scum but flipping jamiet makes the most sense today because he actually could be an important role

I suppose it is possible Jamie is the roleblocker who was RBing and NKing Nephthys.

##VOTE Jamie

[aarodactyl]

Weirdly even if Balki is town, it likely helps town for them to get modkilled by inactivity. So it’s it against the “play to help you team win” rule for Balki to post? Just a weird musing before I go to sleep.

[bozotheclown]

Flum I'm pretty sure is town. Bozo is just confusing me. HR is feeling less and less town. Don't like how mia Balki is but it's a slow day.

Vecna, time to game solve this thanks.

What makes you sure Fluminator is town?

[ghug]

I'm pretty sure maniac is scum but flipping jamiet makes the most sense today because he actually could be an important role

Why are you sure Maniac is scum?

[Fluminator]

That still does not answer the question Nephthys asked. He did not ask you why you concluded both brainbomb and Hamilton were town, he asked why you said near EOD that you would not switch your vote back to Hamilton because it would cause a tie. Saying it that way implies you would switch your vote back if it would not cause a tie. Was that the case?

I doubt I would have. I would have considered it if I had the option and it was safe.

Why consider it if Hamilton had become "confirmed town":

I guess it's possible mafia NKed Hamilton because he basically became confirmed town.
Nephtys was not a good shot either though.

It could have been a presetup gambit. He really solidified the townread that night.

[Vecna]

Kgray, why do you think bozo is town?

Well a lot of it is teacon following his vote, which is admittedly less compelling now that Jamie is scum. And he's doing normal, bozo things. But his survey last night could just be him imitating his town meta and giving himself something to do.

I was thinking that the way he went after me and Balki more than others after teacon's flip was towny because when he was scum before he focused on newer players. But I just looked back and realized he hardly mentioned or interacted with Hamilton or brain at all, and I think town!bozo would have dug into all of the "suspicious" D1 votes.

Really there have been a few things that I'd have expected town!bozo to focus on more, like celaph calling brain BB. And it still bothers me how he wrote off Jamie as tunneling him for ignoring teacon's vote while shading damo and Vecna for the same reason.

And I don't think he's gone back to do any VCA after Bunny and Jamie were outed... He said this after Jamie was caught:

On D1, teacon was leading 5-3 when Jamie voted for ND to make it 5-4, so there was an effort to save teacon. The 3 votes for ND after Jamie were from brainbomb, kgray, and Hamilton. This could have been all town, but it renews my suspicion of kgray's vote, since she moved her vote off of teacon after Jamie voted for ND.

But now he's saying he doesn't scumread me anymore because there's new info. So Bunny flipping is the only new info and he hasn't explained why that makes him think I'm town. Maybe it's just because I don't look like a miskill anymore.

And I think I've just talked myself out of my bozo townread...

Finally...

Also, he was also part of why you miskilled me btw. But at least there he tried to make a case on me and push it, fabricated as his reasons mightve been.

[Vecna]

uclabb

reads


-Vecna on bo re comments on worcej:

This is strange.

This, on some level, is the classic alignment knowledge slip

But Bo doesnt seem to want to let people know he thinks Worcej is town here

Gives him a scumread a few posts later too.
-bo gets replaced. I'm gonna finish the bo search and swtich to Jamie, so this'll be a bit out of order.
-Flum says he doesn't want to kill bo or Bunny despite being scumreads because they're active. Vecna questions him on this. (points towards Flum and Vecna not both being scum, I think)
-bozo makes the sub argument and votes Jamie

- Some early reads from Jamie:

Initial townleans on Celaph, Brainbomb, Vecna, ND.

Initial scumreads on Fluminator and perhaps Worcej - I notice he's the top poster but goodness me the signal-to-noise ratio in his posts is low, which bothers me somewhat.

The Neph-Balki exchange seemed interesting to me too.

Does he avoid mentioning any teammates here? Probably not.

-Vecna thinks Jamie questioning damo about knowing his alignment is the first Jamie post that doesn't align with his scum meta.

-Vecna scumreads Jamie for the forced gimmick of post limits, which is odd because he did it last game as town.




-Jamie's EON reads

Fellow Communists - if I die please avenge my memory by raising the people's flag high, and crushing Bozo or Yoyo, and/or try to get to the bottom of whether Maniac or Teacon was saved? BunnyGo is still possible scum in my eyes.

I townread Vecna, Kgray, Durga and Brainbomb, and possibly Celaph.

Also I do not see why Brainbomb thinks Damo is super #1 megatown, he's still a null for me.

Dunno what to make of these. Does he only townread town?
-HR drops a nice hedgy townread on him at EoN


D2:

-HR posts EoD analysis. Townreads Chaqa. Scumreads Balki, brain, and kgray, but not Jamie. Don't like that.
-bozo analyzes EoD. Thinks therew's scum in kgray, Hamilton, Jamie, and brainbomb. Votes kgray.
-Jamie asks Flum for a Yoyo vote again. I'm starting to think this reflects well on Flum.
-Flum joins Jamie on Yoyo.
-Vecna moves to townreading Jamie.
-Jamie questions Vecna some on not making his vote count D1.
-Chaqa comes in and votes Jamie because he thinks Bunny parked his vote on a scum teammate
-Jamie wakes up and whines about Yoyo. Starts shading Chaqa. I'm reading all of this as harping on lurking because he knows all incarnations of Jamie dislike lurkers, so it's easier to fake town emotion. Probably doesn't say all that much about their alignments, but slight town points for all of them.

-New reads

------------
SOLID TOWNS
------------
Jamiet99uk
Kgray
Vecna
​Durga
Celaph
------------
LEANING TOWN
------------
Fluminator
Damo666
Hamilto​n Brian
BunnyGo
Aarodactyl

"WON'T VOTE" LINE

------------
NULLS
------------
Ghug
​Brainbomb
Balki
Bonatogether
worcej
Nephthy​s
------------
LEANING SCUM
------------
EMC
Maniac
VashtaNeurotic
​Chaqatheclown
------------
STRONG SCUMS
------------
Bozotheclown
Yoyoyozotheclown
​

-Jamie seems pissed off that Chaqa has caught him, which is a pretty reasonable reacton.
-HR buys the argument that teacon wouldn't follow bozo onto Jamie as scum, but notes that it's less compelling if Jamie's scum and they were bussing.
-bozo thinks Jamie's lost in the tunnel if he's town.
-Vecna says something weird about Jamie and Balki being the only players who could pull one over on us.



D2 macro thoughts: HR worse, Flum better. Bozo worse. Maniac better. aaro a little worse.

I'm bored. More sometime.

Ive cut out a lot to do some commentary
-I need to start relying a lot more on that "slips that he knows the person is town" read I did on Bo there. That shit has never failed me yet.
-You make one note on a Flum interaction where Jamiet asks him to vote. Does this negate all the rest? Because I cannot help but notice that Flum is grouped with towns in most of the reads. Several of your logic in other places would conclude Flum doesnt look too great.
-Why not make mention of Celaph? You jump straight to theorizing that he listed all towns twice. First of all, thanks for correctly assuming im town. But why do this for Celaph as well?
-I think it shows a bit of a pattern here. Loads of interacting and trying to convince/talk to townies. Just blank reads, little interactions with scumteammates but just "deduced" scumreads. Agree with this assesment?
-If bozo does end up being town here, do you still think it looks overall good on Flum still?

[Vecna]

well, the commentary went into the quote.

Regardless, those things are very helpfull ghug.

[Vecna]

Well, I will say that I think it's unlikely scum!ghug puts this much effort into a reread. Honestly probably town

While I agree, I still feel he makes certain assumptions very easily

He states twice that he thinks all town are listed while me and Celaph are in the list. He does this while at the same time throwing a little shade in like half of the comments he mentions of me and how I interacted with Jamiet.

I also feel hes giving Flum a bit of an easy treatment. If bozo is scum that is all well and good, but if Bozo flips town when we end up killing him this is probably quite the red herring.

I also still think its very possible that Ghug was actually upset that Bo replaced out and he got Jamiet in return. (the statement that whatever caused Bo to replace out hopefully is causing him pain). I know this will be ridiculed with content for Bo, but the reaction just stood out.