M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[bozotheclown]

<snip>

Seems Scummy to Me

Bona

Why do you scumread me?

Ok, these reasons are probably going to be seem unfair to you, but here is goes anyways.

1) it's weird to me that you felt comfortable reading out to chaqa to play among us together at the start of the game. My suspicious is that you were in QT with him and that made you feel more comfortable
2) it's also weird to me that you missed EOD twice due to walk. I get missing it once, but getting the time wrong twice in a row seems kind of fishy. Also after you missed the first EOD, you said it was because you were out with your family the whole day. I guess you could have been on a walk with them, but it seems fishy.
3) even if you missed EOD, it's weird you left your vote on unvote before your walk. There's always a risk something could come up and delay you and you wouldn't have a chance to submit a vote.
4) your first read was to read bunny and HR as town and EMC and durga as scum. To be fair, this is probably NAI. But in general, I don't like your reads.
5) I'm weirded out by how much you're tunneling on celaph. I don't really trust them either, but it's odd to me.

Also I don't really

@Bonatogether: Did you know Chaqa before the start of this game?

[bozotheclown]

We can vote out Jamie any time, we should try to get another scum today.

[bozotheclown]

Jamie voting for ND D1 EOD when the vote was teacon 5 ND 3 makes me think there were no scum on ND yet (ghug, Durga, and aarodactyl were the voters). Fluminator, BunnyGo, kgray, HR, and Vashta were voting for teacon at the time. We know BunnyGo committed to the bus and informed his teammates by saying he was leaving at 14 minutes before EOD. kgray suggested a BunnyGo wagon, which Balki started, which resulted in kgray voting for BunnyGo to make the vote teacon 4 ND 4. After Chaqa voted for teacon, Fluminator announce he was staying on teacon. After the vote tied again, kgray ended up breaking the tie. Balki voted for teacon in the last minute when teacon was fairly safe.

Fluminator, kgray, Chaqa, and Balki are all possible bussers.

The kgray and Balki BunnyGo wagon could have been kgray baiting Balki into starting the BunnyGo wagon so she could move her vote to BunnyGo, giving her 8 minutes to decide if teacon was worth saving. Or, it could have been Balki taking the opportunity of kgray asking for a BunnyGo wagon to draw her vote off of teacon.

[Bonatogether]

Why do you scumread me?

Ok, these reasons are probably going to be seem unfair to you, but here is goes anyways.

1) it's weird to me that you felt comfortable reading out to chaqa to play among us together at the start of the game. My suspicious is that you were in QT with him and that made you feel more comfortable
2) it's also weird to me that you missed EOD twice due to walk. I get missing it once, but getting the time wrong twice in a row seems kind of fishy. Also after you missed the first EOD, you said it was because you were out with your family the whole day. I guess you could have been on a walk with them, but it seems fishy.
3) even if you missed EOD, it's weird you left your vote on unvote before your walk. There's always a risk something could come up and delay you and you wouldn't have a chance to submit a vote.
4) your first read was to read bunny and HR as town and EMC and durga as scum. To be fair, this is probably NAI. But in general, I don't like your reads.
5) I'm weirded out by how much you're tunneling on celaph. I don't really trust them either, but it's odd to me.

Also I don't really

@Bonatogether: Did you know Chaqa before the start of this game?

I knew of him, but I had never talked to him.

[aarodactyl]

Coming back right after EoD is an odd look.

I've been doing things with family for the whole day - I have 50 pages to read.

where were you during all of it? It seems strange to me that you sat on unvote the entire day only to show up shortly after EOD

I was on a walk since I thought EoD was in an hour. I got back right before EoD (I had a post quoting bb a while back), but I was trying to read everything. I should have just voted HB.

He did the same thing D1 too.

Yeah, I was on a walk then too.

I think aarodactyl already pointed out the discrepancy about D1.

It's still strange though

[aarodactyl]

Hi aaro. Beautiful day, isn't it?

Yeah, it was nice to have a break from the rain. I don't get out much though with all the covid though.

[Fluminator]

Bozo finally coming alive. Interesting.

[Fluminator]

Ghug who is your strongest scumread right now?

[aarodactyl]

<Lots of math from Maniac. I'm still quoting it so people have an easier time jumping to it>

I'm going to summary what I understand of the post, partly to make sure I'm understanding it alright (it took be several rereads) and to help anyone else trying to decipher it. Also I think there's definitely some good stuff in here. (I also feel obligated to weigh in on every math post)

Here are my summaries (and a few observations about the math)
-If assign values to each player with 1 being the most town (durga) and 17 being the most scum (Bona), the total sum of the five most scummy players is 80.
-If you're trying to guess the five most scummy players, we can assign your list of guesses a value by adding up the people on your list.
-If you're not in the top 5 scummy players (as defined by the aggregated list), your max score is 75 = 17+16+15+14+13
-If you're bona, your max score is 70 = 16+15+14+13+12 since you can't include yourself on your list
-As you move townier on the list, the maximum increases by one as you move towards town (until you hit 75). The players impacted by changed totals are Bona, damo, maniac, balki, and yoyo. We would expect theses players to have slightly lower totals than everyone else (the ELI5 reason is that they can't put themselves).

My issues with Maniac's conclusions:
-Out of the bottom 5, the only people this applies to is Bona and Damo. The other three didn't submit lists. (I have opinions about Maniac reading lists this much considering they didn't submit one...)
-I don't really agree with their methodology for saying higher scores are the most suspicious. However, if you do care about it, I think this makes Damo the most suspicious. Their list was 65/71 = 91.5% and the next highest was me and bozo at 90.6%.
-Also top 5 is a super arbitrary cutoff. I haven't gone through any other choices for 5, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're different

I think it's very suspicious to make an analysis of people at the bottom of the ranking while being at the bottom of the rating and not including yourself because you didn't include a list. I also think this post is a whole lot of nothing. So here's my revised list after this post:

Vecna
Aaro
Maniac
Damo

That was my list for math posting so far. I don't really know how this impacts where I put Maniac on my list because I'm not yet good at differentiating bad math from math that's designed to distract from actually finding scum.

Also in what world do we vote out anyone besides Jamie?

[Fluminator]

Bozo is scum when he doesn't care about his pushes.

The two main signs for this is:
1. How thorough his questioning and analysis is.
2. How much he cares other people are listening.

From mafia 60 -

I was traitor in that game and did not know BunnyGo was scum. I knew it was possible, but no one else was interested in my case on BunnyGo so pushing him was safe.

He's aware when people aren't listening to him and uses to his advantage when scum.

Day 1, all he did was weakly push Jamiet because he was a replacement, even saying no one listened to him last game for doing a similar push.
The only two people who joined in all day were teacon and bunny (lol). He stayed off teacon vs. ND despite being online at eod.

Night 1, bozo almost immediately throws shade on kgray for saving teacon (before we knew teacon was scum I should point out), why did he suddenly think it was scum vs. town after the day was done?

Day 2, he votes kgray for VCA, throws shade on Jamiet for VCA but doesn’t vote him, then votes Balki for VCA. He ends jumping on Hamilton last minute as the town vs. town eod approached an end. (why did he jump on when it was TvT and not TvS.)

Day 3, none of the voting matters much here, but he’s doing very weak research. At least on me where he’s asking questions without actually looking up the answers that are there.
He asks my why I didn’t vote Bunny and Jamiet day 1 if I was scumreading them. He completely missed my post on why I didn’t in day 1 which shows he wasn’t looking that deeply and showing a lack of care. He claims he did see it, but he didn’t correct me when I gave him a wrong answer, and when he saw it he went “this makes you look more suspicious” which is further confirmation it was the first time he was considering it.

So, as far as performance goes, it lines up with his scum meta in not caring overly, and not being worried when people don't listen to him. (This is a guy who fakeclaims cop to get his reads through when he's town, the dude cares)
Ignoring meta, he hasn't done anything townie regarding VCA or actions.

Interaction-wise with confirmed scum:

Jamiet: His entire game has basically been to go against bozo lol. I stumbled upon this gem. Totally forgot Jamiet shaded me for trying to get people to vote Teacon lol. (and then told me to move to bozo which he'd probably know I wouldn't)

24. Convenient that you pick Teacon, of all the 2-voter wagons. There are seven of them, but of course you pretend that the one your vote happens to be on is the most viable. How about you move to Bozo?

Idk, I think Jamiets interactions with him are NAI. Easily scum theatre, but maybe not. Wifom.

Teacon didn't do much with bozo besides sheep his vote on Jamiet lol.

Bunny also sheeped Bozo's Jamiet vote. Bunny defends bozo from Durga questioning him. Town-bozo used to be really suspicious of people pocketing him, and he's not suspicious of Bunny defending him.

Going through these, it's mostly wifom and probably not reasons to strongly suspect bozo. Scum do seem to be weirdly obsessed with him either going hard against him or defending and sheeping him. Could be framing him I guess.

But the meta case at the start was more my reason for suspecting him.

Corrections:

1. I also voted Jamie D1 for the scum slip BunnyGo pointed out, not just because he was a sub.

2. I was not online D1 EOD.

3. I did not say I did not see your explanation for not voting BunnyGo or bo_sox D1, I pointed out your reason was given much later in the day, and my question was why you did not vote for them at the time you stated they were scum, a question you still have not answered.

I was wrong on 2. I thought your last post was a minute away, not an hour away. I read the bot wrong, my bad.

[Fluminator]

I'm probably just tunneling bozo but it seems like he's deciding I'm scum and creating a narrative hit piece in hindsight to counter my case dump on him.

[aarodactyl]

We can vote out Jamie any time, we should try to get another scum today.

Why? I really don’t get the reasoning behind this.

[Fluminator]

I could actually see an argument for that.

[celaph]

I rather dislike Bozo’s recent response for multiple reasons:
(1) It is entirely reactive. I see no indication that if Flum didn’t post his argument on why Bozo is scum, that Bozo would have attacked flum in anything like this manner. If he was true in his conviction I don’t see why he would wait for flum like this.
(2) His defense is clearly focused on undermining flum’s credibility rather than challenging flum’s interpretation of his earlier move or defending why he did it. Defending like this feels rather forced when done in context of point (1).
(3) It feels that the argument is full of points that either are not alignment indicative or possibly alignment indicative where bozo has spent minimal time arguing that they are alignment indicative.

[celaph]

We can vote out Jamie any time, we should try to get another scum today.

Why? I really don’t get the reasoning behind this.

If we kill Jamie tomorrow instead of today, we can get input from Durga before she dies. The main risk is that Jamie's vote still counts and so if the votes are as close as they were on D1 and D2, he could easily be the deciding vote or try to tie it last second.

I'm assuming that Bozo is arguing that the benefit outweighs the risk here though I would argue otherwise as I think that killing Jamie is the right move. If people want input from Durga, ask her now.

[bozotheclown]

We can vote out Jamie any time, we should try to get another scum today.

Why? I really don’t get the reasoning behind this.

We would get more information earlier.

[ghug]

We can vote out Jamie any time, we should try to get another scum today.

This is drunkbozo.

[ghug]

Ghug who is your strongest scumread right now?

Jamie

[Fluminator]

I like you Celaph.

Please please please don't be scum.

[Fluminator]

Ghug who is your second strongest scumread right now.