M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[Jamiet99uk]

sorry is that uclabb's reads?
I'm confused

That's a bad joke nobody will get. I reread Jamie.

Bo subbed in for Uclabb in 2011, and then I subbed in for Bo.

[Maniac]

So I've been doing a bit of thinking, (I know this doesn't happen often, but bear with me)

So if we set up a game of 18 players 1 Alan, 2 Betty, 3 Carl.....18 Roberta and asked them to list everybody from town to scum out the gate, the lists wouldn't mean much (obviously). But if we then scored those lists with Alan =1, Betty =2, etc. We'd see that Alan's list would add up to 170 (2+3+4........+18) and Roberta's list would add up to 153 (1+2+3.......+17). This is fairly obvious, Alan excludes a low number: 1. And Roberta excludes the highest number: 18.

So this tells us that the people at the bottom of the list should have a lower overall score. Now rather than asking them to list all the players we ask them to list just five players, we would still expect the players at the bottom of the list to have slightly lower overall scores for their top 5 scum.

Now rather than list the players alphabetically, we list them like bozo did in his experiment.

We should still expect people at the bottom of the list to have a slightly lower number than those at the top of the list. (Hope you're all still with me).

IF however, people at the bottom of the list have substaintially HIGHER totals for the five scum we could deduce one of two things:

(1) Perhaps players who are regarded as scum by their piers (and are therefore bottom of the list) are really good at identifying scum bahaviour.
(2) Players who are regarded as scum are trying to get other players mis-killed and they think if they list the players others see as scum as scum, they can get easily kills.

I think (2) is more likely than (1).

So if we now look at players in the middle of Bozo's list 8 - Flum and 9 - Bozo.
Flum lists Ghug, Damo, HR, Balki & Bozo as his top 5 scum (obviously excluding Jamie) for a score of 52.

Bozo on the other hand lists Damo, Bona, Chaqa, Yoyo & Balki as his scum reads for a total score of 68.

I deduce from this that Flum is town and is scum reading people independently and Bozo is scum who wants to scum read players he thinks the group will kill in order to save himself. (Obv he could also be listed fellow scum here).

So based on the above logic town to scum list would look something like this...

Flum (52)
Ghug (54)
Vecna (56)
HR (58)
Kgray (59)
Damo (65)
Chaqa (around 66)
Celaph (67)
Aarodactyl (68)
Bozo (68)

Yoyo, Balki and I didn't compile lists. Nor did Tom, Durga and EMC but we know now they're all town. If someone wanted to read through yoyo, Balki and me and score us against bozo's list to give us notional scores, that'll be good.

So with all that in mind. ##voteBozo

[damo666]

Wow

[ghug]

sorry is that uclabb's reads?
I'm confused

That's a bad joke nobody will get. I reread Jamie.

Bo subbed in for Uclabb in 2011, and then I subbed in for Bo.

No, ND put uclabb's name in unnecessary quotation marks once and "'uclabb' reads" was a meme for a while.

[ghug]

Well, I will say that I think it's unlikely scum!ghug puts this much effort into a reread. Honestly probably town

You thought this this time but not when I went back over Bunny or teacon?

[celaph]

Well, I will say that I think it's unlikely scum!ghug puts this much effort into a reread. Honestly probably town

Is this more of a meta comment on ghug that you don't think scum ghug would put in this level of effort or do you feel that effort is town indicative in general? I can't speak to ghug's meta, but in general it feels that effort would be part of someone's town meta that they could most easily replicate.

[President Eden]

DAY4 VOTE COUNT THE FIRST: HYPERLINKS RESTORED EDITION

Jamiet99uk (9): Vecna, aarodactyl, ghug, Tom Bombadil, Bonatogether, damo666, celaph, Hellenic Riot, Chaqa
ghug (1): Durga
Durga (1): Fluminator
bozotheclown (1): Maniac

NOT VOTING (5): Jamiet99uk, kgray, bozotheclown, Yoyoyozo, Balki Bartokomous

Currently Jamiet99uk will receive a hyperlink to the God QT in 23h00m at the end of Day 4.

[ghug]

Well, I will say that I think it's unlikely scum!ghug puts this much effort into a reread. Honestly probably town

Is this more of a meta comment on ghug that you don't think scum ghug would put in this level of effort or do you feel that effort is town indicative in general? I can't speak to ghug's meta, but in general it feels that effort would be part of someone's town meta that they could most easily replicate.

Did the encryptor tell you to say this?

[President Eden]

GAME HISTORY TO DATE

1. Jamiet99uk replaces bo_sox48 during Day 1.
2. ND the Townie is daykilled at the end of Day 1.
3. rdrivera2005 the Townie is nightkilled at the end of Night 1.
4. teacon7 the Goon is nightkilled at the end of Night 1.
5. brainbomb the Townie is daykilled at the end of Day 2.
6. Nephthys the Parity Cop is nightkilled at the end of Night 2.
7. Hamilton Brian the Townie is nightkilled at the end of Night 2.
8. Tom Bombadil replaces VashtaNeurotic during Day 3.
9. worcej the Jailer is modkilled during Day 3.
10. BunnyGo the Blackmailer is daykilled at the end of Day 3.
11. Durga is on her deathbed at the end of Night 3.
12. e.m.c^42 the Townie is nightkilled at the end of Night 3.
13. The EDEN LOYALIST Assassination is used during Night 3.

[celaph]

So I've been doing a bit of thinking, (I know this doesn't happen often, but bear with me)

So if we set up a game of 18 players 1 Alan, 2 Betty, 3 Carl.....18 Roberta and asked them to list everybody from town to scum out the gate, the lists wouldn't mean much (obviously). But if we then scored those lists with Alan =1, Betty =2, etc. We'd see that Alan's list would add up to 170 (2+3+4........+18) and Roberta's list would add up to 153 (1+2+3.......+17). This is fairly obvious, Alan excludes a low number: 1. And Roberta excludes the highest number: 18.

So this tells us that the people at the bottom of the list should have a lower overall score. Now rather than asking them to list all the players we ask them to list just five players, we would still expect the players at the bottom of the list to have slightly lower overall scores for their top 5 scum.

Now rather than list the players alphabetically, we list them like bozo did in his experiment.

We should still expect people at the bottom of the list to have a slightly lower number than those at the top of the list. (Hope you're all still with me).

IF however, people at the bottom of the list have substaintially HIGHER totals for the five scum we could deduce one of two things:

(1) Perhaps players who are regarded as scum by their piers (and are therefore bottom of the list) are really good at identifying scum bahaviour.
(2) Players who are regarded as scum are trying to get other players mis-killed and they think if they list the players others see as scum as scum, they can get easily kills.

I think (2) is more likely than (1).

So if we now look at players in the middle of Bozo's list 8 - Flum and 9 - Bozo.
Flum lists Ghug, Damo, HR, Balki & Bozo as his top 5 scum (obviously excluding Jamie) for a score of 52.

Bozo on the other hand lists Damo, Bona, Chaqa, Yoyo & Balki as his scum reads for a total score of 68.

I deduce from this that Flum is town and is scum reading people independently and Bozo is scum who wants to scum read players he thinks the group will kill in order to save himself. (Obv he could also be listed fellow scum here).

So based on the above logic town to scum list would look something like this...

Flum (52)
Ghug (54)
Vecna (56)
HR (58)
Kgray (59)
Damo (65)
Chaqa (around 66)
Celaph (67)
Aarodactyl (68)
Bozo (68)

Yoyo, Balki and I didn't compile lists. Nor did Tom, Durga and EMC but we know now they're all town. If someone wanted to read through yoyo, Balki and me and score us against bozo's list to give us notional scores, that'll be good.

So with all that in mind. ##voteBozo

I don't think we can deduce any of the things you say we can deduce.
(1) If a person towards the bottom of Bozo's list has a high score, it means they have included 5 people also near the bottom. Those people may or may not be scum so why do you assume that a town member on the bottom who listed 5 others at the bottom has an above average ability to find scum? They found the same suspicious people everyone else has found (minus themselves).
(2) If a scum ranks someone as scum, why does that make the person they ranked town? Could they not be trying to bus?

Even granting all your erroneous assumptions, why is scum Bozo your conclusion here? Excluding Jamie, Bozo is the 7th scummiest person on his list. That's not even particularly close to the bottom. For comparison, Bozo and myself have rather similar scores on Bozo's list (I'm only 0.09 higher) and we show up rather similarly on your list. Do you scum read me similarly? If so, why aren't I mentioned?

[celaph]

Well, I will say that I think it's unlikely scum!ghug puts this much effort into a reread. Honestly probably town

Is this more of a meta comment on ghug that you don't think scum ghug would put in this level of effort or do you feel that effort is town indicative in general? I can't speak to ghug's meta, but in general it feels that effort would be part of someone's town meta that they could most easily replicate.

Did the encryptor tell you to say this?

Hold on. Waiting for my encryptor to tell me how to respond...

[ghug]

So I've been doing a bit of thinking, (I know this doesn't happen often, but bear with me)

So if we set up a game of 18 players 1 Alan, 2 Betty, 3 Carl.....18 Roberta and asked them to list everybody from town to scum out the gate, the lists wouldn't mean much (obviously). But if we then scored those lists with Alan =1, Betty =2, etc. We'd see that Alan's list would add up to 170 (2+3+4........+18) and Roberta's list would add up to 153 (1+2+3.......+17). This is fairly obvious, Alan excludes a low number: 1. And Roberta excludes the highest number: 18.

So this tells us that the people at the bottom of the list should have a lower overall score. Now rather than asking them to list all the players we ask them to list just five players, we would still expect the players at the bottom of the list to have slightly lower overall scores for their top 5 scum.

Now rather than list the players alphabetically, we list them like bozo did in his experiment.

We should still expect people at the bottom of the list to have a slightly lower number than those at the top of the list. (Hope you're all still with me).

IF however, people at the bottom of the list have substaintially HIGHER totals for the five scum we could deduce one of two things:

(1) Perhaps players who are regarded as scum by their piers (and are therefore bottom of the list) are really good at identifying scum bahaviour.
(2) Players who are regarded as scum are trying to get other players mis-killed and they think if they list the players others see as scum as scum, they can get easily kills.

I think (2) is more likely than (1).

So if we now look at players in the middle of Bozo's list 8 - Flum and 9 - Bozo.
Flum lists Ghug, Damo, HR, Balki & Bozo as his top 5 scum (obviously excluding Jamie) for a score of 52.

Bozo on the other hand lists Damo, Bona, Chaqa, Yoyo & Balki as his scum reads for a total score of 68.

I deduce from this that Flum is town and is scum reading people independently and Bozo is scum who wants to scum read players he thinks the group will kill in order to save himself. (Obv he could also be listed fellow scum here).

So based on the above logic town to scum list would look something like this...

Flum (52)
Ghug (54)
Vecna (56)
HR (58)
Kgray (59)
Damo (65)
Chaqa (around 66)
Celaph (67)
Aarodactyl (68)
Bozo (68)

Yoyo, Balki and I didn't compile lists. Nor did Tom, Durga and EMC but we know now they're all town. If someone wanted to read through yoyo, Balki and me and score us against bozo's list to give us notional scores, that'll be good.

So with all that in mind. ##voteBozo

I don't think we can deduce any of the things you say we can deduce.
(1) If a person towards the bottom of Bozo's list has a high score, it means they have included 5 people also near the bottom. Those people may or may not be scum so why do you assume that a town member on the bottom who listed 5 others at the bottom has an above average ability to find scum? They found the same suspicious people everyone else has found (minus themselves).
(2) If a scum ranks someone as scum, why does that make the person they ranked town? Could they not be trying to bus?

Even granting all your erroneous assumptions, why is scum Bozo your conclusion here? Excluding Jamie, Bozo is the 7th scummiest person on his list. That's not even particularly close to the bottom. For comparison, Bozo and myself have rather similar scores on Bozo's list (I'm only 0.09 higher) and we show up rather similarly on your list. Do you scum read me similarly? If so, why aren't I mentioned?

I think the point is that purple who are more willing to go against the grain are more likely to be town.

This seems likely to be true if the remaining scum are well-hidden, but that's far from certain. I do think it's odd to see bozo and damo in the sixties, when those of us in the fifties tend to be more likely to go against the grain in general, and I'd expect bozo and damo to be like that too.

Not nearly compelling enough for a vote, I don't think, but I like to see Maniac actually analyzing something.

[ghug]

Is this more of a meta comment on ghug that you don't think scum ghug would put in this level of effort or do you feel that effort is town indicative in general? I can't speak to ghug's meta, but in general it feels that effort would be part of someone's town meta that they could most easily replicate.

Did the encryptor tell you to say this?

Hold on. Waiting for my encryptor to tell me how to respond...

Good answer. NAI, but good.

I think the weakest part of my scumgame is that it's difficult to stay engaged forever without a puzzle to solve. It's harder to fake than you'd think. I think most people would view the argument that that makes me town the same way you have here, so I think Durga's right that I wouldn't do it as scum, but it's a big bowl of WIFOM for the rest of you.

[ghug]

Hi aaro. Beautiful day, isn't it?

[bozotheclown]

Bozo is scum when he doesn't care about his pushes.

The two main signs for this is:
1. How thorough his questioning and analysis is.
2. How much he cares other people are listening.

From mafia 60 -

I was traitor in that game and did not know BunnyGo was scum. I knew it was possible, but no one else was interested in my case on BunnyGo so pushing him was safe.

He's aware when people aren't listening to him and uses to his advantage when scum.

Day 1, all he did was weakly push Jamiet because he was a replacement, even saying no one listened to him last game for doing a similar push.
The only two people who joined in all day were teacon and bunny (lol). He stayed off teacon vs. ND despite being online at eod.

Night 1, bozo almost immediately throws shade on kgray for saving teacon (before we knew teacon was scum I should point out), why did he suddenly think it was scum vs. town after the day was done?

Day 2, he votes kgray for VCA, throws shade on Jamiet for VCA but doesn’t vote him, then votes Balki for VCA. He ends jumping on Hamilton last minute as the town vs. town eod approached an end. (why did he jump on when it was TvT and not TvS.)

Day 3, none of the voting matters much here, but he’s doing very weak research. At least on me where he’s asking questions without actually looking up the answers that are there.
He asks my why I didn’t vote Bunny and Jamiet day 1 if I was scumreading them. He completely missed my post on why I didn’t in day 1 which shows he wasn’t looking that deeply and showing a lack of care. He claims he did see it, but he didn’t correct me when I gave him a wrong answer, and when he saw it he went “this makes you look more suspicious” which is further confirmation it was the first time he was considering it.

So, as far as performance goes, it lines up with his scum meta in not caring overly, and not being worried when people don't listen to him. (This is a guy who fakeclaims cop to get his reads through when he's town, the dude cares)
Ignoring meta, he hasn't done anything townie regarding VCA or actions.

Interaction-wise with confirmed scum:

Jamiet: His entire game has basically been to go against bozo lol. I stumbled upon this gem. Totally forgot Jamiet shaded me for trying to get people to vote Teacon lol. (and then told me to move to bozo which he'd probably know I wouldn't)

I think the main votes are between Maniac, ND, and Teacon. People should start compiling onto one of them

24. Convenient that you pick Teacon, of all the 2-voter wagons. There are seven of them, but of course you pretend that the one your vote happens to be on is the most viable. How about you move to Bozo?

Idk, I think Jamiets interactions with him are NAI. Easily scum theatre, but maybe not. Wifom.

Teacon didn't do much with bozo besides sheep his vote on Jamiet lol.

Bunny also sheeped Bozo's Jamiet vote. Bunny defends bozo from Durga questioning him. Town-bozo used to be really suspicious of people pocketing him, and he's not suspicious of Bunny defending him.

Going through these, it's mostly wifom and probably not reasons to strongly suspect bozo. Scum do seem to be weirdly obsessed with him either going hard against him or defending and sheeping him. Could be framing him I guess.

But the meta case at the start was more my reason for suspecting him.

Corrections:

1. I also voted Jamie D1 for the scum slip BunnyGo pointed out, not just because he was a sub.

2. I was not online D1 EOD.

3. I did not say I did not see your explanation for not voting BunnyGo or bo_sox D1, I pointed out your reason was given much later in the day, and my question was why you did not vote for them at the time you stated they were scum, a question you still have not answered.

[bozotheclown]

@bozo why did worcej flipping town make you change your scumreads from Balki and Flum to Chaqa/bona/damo?





You have not given any explanation for this last group of people.

Balki and Fluminator looked more like town in responsing to Durga's claim, while damo, Bonatogether, and Chaqa have dropped to the bottom of my list by POE. Fluminator is moving down my list again for the way he suspected all of the revealed scum without ever voting for them.

Why is this an argument for scumreading Flum but not Vecna?

Vecna listed teacon as a scum read early, but then reversed his read before teacon had any votes. I do not know why Vecna would reverse and early bus for no reason.

[Vecna]

Maniac since you're here can you talk the through your thought process a bit. Why did you scum read me d1? And then kgray D2?

If you didn't know what was really going on why not just admit that? Why would you think I was manipulating ND or something?

Mate, I’m struggling to remember what happened yesterday. Reads come and go. D1 reads aren’t worth much when we now have so much more info. I’m surprised you were scum reading me D1 and still today tbh.

With regard Kgray I do remember thinking her D1 switch from teacon-bunny-ND was suspicious after teacon flipped. I then changed my mind, but I’m open to thinking she could be scum now.

I’m also in two minds about Chaqa. Sometimes I think his D1 was very good. Sometimes I think he might be pocketing me. Someone then said he likes to bus so maybe D1 doesn’t look so good.

drink vecna thinks this is soon be rotten shit

fucking spell correct

tripod by

TOWNY AHIT

fi k

[Vecna]

fuck phone gets amid big fingers

[Vecna]

auto correct and ke are not friends

[Vecna]

Guys I think Bozo is scum.

Do i need to make a case or is it self evident for enough people?

Honestly I think you might be right

wtf

flum?

might be roght?