M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[bozotheclown]

lol, bunny is scum again.

bosox is scum

Why didn't you vote for bo_sox or BunnyGo?

Probably because I had a stronger scumread on Teacon.

You had not mentioned teacon yet at the times of these posts.

I found these posts suspicious, because I'd expect town bozo to look at my posting to see if there was a reason before asking because it would be incredibly easy to check. I intentionally gave you a wrong answer to see if you'd catch it.

Work will be busy tomorrow.

Bunny and Bo (Jamiet) were early scumreads, but they're active enough I don't think they're worth daykilling day 1.

##Vote Hamilton Brian

This is very soon after.
I think town Bozo would have seen that before asking that question.

This looks more like scum bozo pretending to look busy without genuinely caring about his questions.

I meant why didn't you vote for them at the time you said they were scum, I had read the later post.

[kgray]

Theres another important take away

Now that we know bunny was the blackmailer and was on EMC N1, they mustve figured out Neph was the cop another way.

Aka, they have someone there that is good at spotting those type of differences in peoples play. Someone very familiar with Neph's playing style.

Don't like this take from Vecna, because (1) it's just randomly shading a vague person/people without looking into who it might actually be that is familiar with Neph's playing style - so he's not using it to solve, so what's even the point of saying this? and (2) it implies he forgot about brain's read of Neph as an investigative PR, which, on top of Vecna actually responding to part of that interaction, I doubt Vecna would actually do.

1: it was a discussion point because I wanted to see if people would pick up on it and see who they would mention. I think its quite obvious who my main candidate is for the shading with his point.

2: So you think scum would base their NK choice on a comment made by brainbomb? Without discussing it internally and finding their own reasoning? Also, no comment like that was made on Rdrivera, which was undoubtedly killed for similar reasoning.

And the people that are still in this game it applies to besides Bozo are -maybe- Damo and HR. From reading the scum QT lats game, I dont think Damo was involved in PR hunting too much? Ill leave that to you. From what I remember, I dont think Ghug actively hunts for PR's. I would obviously do it, but wouldve known better than to suspect Rdrivera of being a PR. Im not sure if Flum is meta-aware enough on Neph

No I absolutely don't think they decided on the NK based on what brain said without discussing it, but that doesn't mean they didn't consider what he said. My point was that there was talk of Neph being a PR, so them having someone familiar enough with Neph's play to spot those differences isn't necessarily guaranteed.

I'm not sure what Rivera has to do with this. He's been killed first pretty often so it's definitely not undoubtable that he was killed for being suspected of being a PR.

And it's still not obvious to me who you were implying you thought caught Neph as a PR - bozo? You say it could be damo, but you don't think he hunts PRs. It could be HR, but then you didn't follow up on whether you think it was him or not. And you don't think it's ghug or Flum...

Basically I just don't know where you're going with this, but it doesn't seem like scumhunting to me.

[kgray]

I am starting to believe the remaining scum are going to turn to be something like damo, Bonatogether, and Chaqa.

Why?

[kgray]

Everyone should post a full reads list so we can calculate a collective list.

Durga
Tom
emc
aarodactyl
HR
ghug
kgray
Maniac
Vecna
Fluminator
celaph
Balki
Yoyoyozo
Chaqa
Bonatogether
damo
Jamie

Why am I so high on your list? What happened to you thinking I saved teacon D1?

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, do you want one from me? I've the gut read one, the wifom one, and the formulaic one, lol.

Yes, it is best if everyone participates.

[kgray]

Some examples:

ND (7): ghug, Durga, aarodactyl, Jamiet99uk, brainbomb, kgray, Hamilton Brian
teacon7 (6): Fluminator, BunnyGo, Hellenic Riot, VashtaNeurotic, Chaqa, Balki Bartokomous
Maniac (4): rdrivera2005, celaph, ND, damo666
ghug (2): Nephthys, worcej
Jamiet99uk (2): bozotheclown, teacon7
Durga (1): Maniac
Fluminator (1): Bonatogether
bozotheclown (1): Yoyoyozo
Nephthys (1): Vecna
damo666 (1): e.m.c^42

ND (7): ghug, Durga, aarodactyl, Jamiet99uk, brainbomb, kgray, Hamilton Brian
teacon7 (6): Fluminator, BunnyGo, Hellenic Riot, VashtaNeurotic, Chaqa, Balki Bartokomous
Maniac (4): rdrivera2005, celaph, ND, damo666
ghug (2): Nephthys, worcej
Jamiet99uk (2): bozotheclown, teacon7
Durga (1): Maniac
Fluminator (1): Bonatogether
bozotheclown (1): Yoyoyozo
Nephthys (1): Vecna
damo666 (1): e.m.c^42

Im sure theres loads of other variations where they did bus maniac as well, but im tired of these colouring exercises.

This is so weird. What is any of this telling you? Why are you doing this?

[Hellenic Riot]

I will say that Aaro's point about Yoyo is quite an interesting one: I'm also inclined to townread him because of the way he caught up - Because from the scum team we have so far I don't see a single person who Yoyo would be willing to put that effort in for.

[kgray]

Even though I sort of townread bona and celaph, id say its quite possible as well theyre scumbuddies together here. It fits exactly with standard boring scum voting behaviour, and Teacon did prop them up to answer some softball questions by including them as a by the way in his questions directed at aaro. The strong tunneling on eachother could also very well be interpreted as theater/coached behaviour.

I think new people focusing on each other is pretty NAI. Joining a big game like this where people all have past history is intimidating and I can see new players avoiding starting stuff with established players as either alignment.

[Chaqa]

Town
Durga
Tom
EMC
Flum
HR
Balki
Maniac
kgray

------- line of uncertainty -------
everyone else

Jamiet
Scum

everyone above the line is town as far as I can tell.

Can you make a list that includes everyone?

It would literally be the same list with the other people in place of "everyone else" in an arbitrary order.

[kgray]

As per Bozo request

Damo
Durga
Tom
EMC
Ghug
Bozo
Kgray
Aaro
HR
Vecna
Chaqa
Yoyo
Maniac
Bona
Flum
Balki
Jamie

Also you, why aren't you scumreading me anymore?

[aarodactyl]

I get not having solid reasons, but could you explain a bit about your HR/damo scumreads? Why do you think each of them is scummy and do you think they're scum together?

Also I'm very interesting in your Balki read. Why is he probably town to you?

First of all, keep in mind that I'm incredibly new at making reads like this. I don't think I'm wrong, but there's definitely things that I haven't considered (for example, I didn't reread jamie, teacon, or bunny before making the list. I'll probably do that this morning).

HR: When I started making the list, I wrote down a summary for myself and then forgot to do it for almost everyone. However, it looks like I wrote "so many bad/incorrect takes". I'm looking back, and they started the game by making digs at damo and bunny. They then small talk, take a break from small talking to scumread ND and then go back to small talking. They then focus in on examining EMC and then settle on teacon while saying they're still down to get EMC out. They have a lot of EON1 takes that I don't really agree with. They scum read me a lot (which is fair considering my early play), but in terms of actually talking to new players, they only ever seem to reach out to Bona and not Celaph or me when they ask question. It's also weird to me that I'm their top scumread on day 3.

Damo: I did some math and it said Damo's math was sus. More seriously though, when I reread their posts, my impression is that they're talking a lot but not contributing very much. Also, I get making a math mistake, but they tripled down on it being both correct and relevant. They also voted maniac day 1 and kgray day 2 which means they weren't on a viable train on either day.

Balki: Before anyone looks back and says I scumread them earlier, that was because of their last minute change to teacon day 1. I think you mentioned that this isn't scum-indicative because late swings happen, and I agree now after seeing the brain wagon day 2. I'm now considering the switch to be a town move. I think they're putting in a serious effort to discuss alignment. In general, I feel like they're being pretty helpful. the comment about not advocating for the hammer so we could take our time to do rereads also seems town to me.

When on earth have I said you're my top scumread?

I've called out Bona more than you or Celaph because Bona has made more posts that have been worth calling out. Given you opened that read by pointing out that I've called non-newbies out too, I don't know why you expect me to be calling you or Celaph out in particular.

That's fair. You never said that, and that was sloppy writing on my part (so I'm sorry for that). What I was reading into was that as soon as Day 3 started, you tried to get a wagon started on me. Considering the other reads you had made this game, it was super weird to me that you would pick me to start a wagon on. However, to be fair, that might be my bias from knowing I'm town.

Also, I guess you're right about the bona interactions too. I just looked back and there were only two (and then reasonable follows ups to one). And one of those was just making fun of them when you entered the game. The other one was:

@Bona

I notice you've spent a lot of today questioning other people's reads (and a big post looking back at teacon's actions), without actually giving any of your own - aside from voting celaph because he voted without giving reasons. Do you have any townreads? Has teacon's flip affected those? What did your look back at teacon lead you to conclude about other people?

It doesn't make you scum, but I'm curious why you singled out Bona to ask this question to.

In general, this discussion has made me think you're less likely to be scum, but I do still feel weird about your D1 stuff.

[Jamiet99uk]

Don't like this take from Vecna, because (1) it's just randomly shading a vague person/people without looking into who it might actually be that is familiar with Neph's playing style - so he's not using it to solve, so what's even the point of saying this? and (2) it implies he forgot about brain's read of Neph as an investigative PR, which, on top of Vecna actually responding to part of that interaction, I doubt Vecna would actually do.

1: it was a discussion point because I wanted to see if people would pick up on it and see who they would mention. I think its quite obvious who my main candidate is for the shading with his point.

2: So you think scum would base their NK choice on a comment made by brainbomb? Without discussing it internally and finding their own reasoning? Also, no comment like that was made on Rdrivera, which was undoubtedly killed for similar reasoning.

And the people that are still in this game it applies to besides Bozo are -maybe- Damo and HR. From reading the scum QT lats game, I dont think Damo was involved in PR hunting too much? Ill leave that to you. From what I remember, I dont think Ghug actively hunts for PR's. I would obviously do it, but wouldve known better than to suspect Rdrivera of being a PR. Im not sure if Flum is meta-aware enough on Neph

No I absolutely don't think they decided on the NK based on what brain said without discussing it, but that doesn't mean they didn't consider what he said. My point was that there was talk of Neph being a PR, so them having someone familiar enough with Neph's play to spot those differences isn't necessarily guaranteed.

I'm not sure what Rivera has to do with this. He's been killed first pretty often so it's definitely not undoubtable that he was killed for being suspected of being a PR.

And it's still not obvious to me who you were implying you thought caught Neph as a PR - bozo? You say it could be damo, but you don't think he hunts PRs. It could be HR, but then you didn't follow up on whether you think it was him or not. And you don't think it's ghug or Flum...

Basically I just don't know where you're going with this, but it doesn't seem like scumhunting to me.

Great discussion point!

As a matter of fact it was me that suspected Neph was the Parity Cop. The things which caused me to think this were: First of all the way he was keeping quite a low profile; Secondly the way he really didn't engage at all with Brainbomb calling out how he thought Neph was a PR (aw, Brainbomb, never change); Thirdly, the way he suddenly declared he town-read Maniac "for no reason" during N2, after Maniac had been getting a lot of suspicion. This last point made me suspect Neph was going to include Maniac in his N2 scan.

I'm not actually as terrible at this game as some of you like to think.

[Hellenic Riot]

I can't remember exactly why I made that post in particular, but from reading I suspect it's because I was bothered by the way Bona was questioning people's reads while having such a weak reason for his own vote

[ghug]

As per Bozo request

Damo
Durga
Tom
EMC
Ghug
Bozo
Kgray
Aaro
HR
Vecna
Chaqa
Yoyo
Maniac
Bona
Flum
Balki
Jamie

Also you, why aren't you scumreading me anymore?

I feel like it all looks even worse for you with HB's flip and the two new confirmed scum, so townreading you now if you weren't before is pretty odd.

[Fluminator]

1: it was a discussion point because I wanted to see if people would pick up on it and see who they would mention. I think its quite obvious who my main candidate is for the shading with his point.

2: So you think scum would base their NK choice on a comment made by brainbomb? Without discussing it internally and finding their own reasoning? Also, no comment like that was made on Rdrivera, which was undoubtedly killed for similar reasoning.

And the people that are still in this game it applies to besides Bozo are -maybe- Damo and HR. From reading the scum QT lats game, I dont think Damo was involved in PR hunting too much? Ill leave that to you. From what I remember, I dont think Ghug actively hunts for PR's. I would obviously do it, but wouldve known better than to suspect Rdrivera of being a PR. Im not sure if Flum is meta-aware enough on Neph

No I absolutely don't think they decided on the NK based on what brain said without discussing it, but that doesn't mean they didn't consider what he said. My point was that there was talk of Neph being a PR, so them having someone familiar enough with Neph's play to spot those differences isn't necessarily guaranteed.

I'm not sure what Rivera has to do with this. He's been killed first pretty often so it's definitely not undoubtable that he was killed for being suspected of being a PR.

And it's still not obvious to me who you were implying you thought caught Neph as a PR - bozo? You say it could be damo, but you don't think he hunts PRs. It could be HR, but then you didn't follow up on whether you think it was him or not. And you don't think it's ghug or Flum...

Basically I just don't know where you're going with this, but it doesn't seem like scumhunting to me.

Great discussion point!

As a matter of fact it was me that suspected Neph was the Parity Cop. The things which caused me to think this were: First of all the way he was keeping quite a low profile; Secondly the way he really didn't engage at all with Brainbomb calling out how he thought Neph was a PR (aw, Brainbomb, never change); Thirdly, the way he suddenly declared he town-read Maniac "for no reason" during N2, after Maniac had been getting a lot of suspicion. This last point made me suspect Neph was going to include Maniac in his N2 scan.

I'm not actually as terrible at this game as some of you like to think.

Ooh, what are you telling your team right now?

[Fluminator]

I meant why didn't you vote for them at the time you said they were scum, I had read the later post.

Then why didn't you know the answer then?

[kgray]

Let's say it isn't.

Okay, so take 5 seconds to look at brain's ISO from the beginning of D2 and see for yourself

Oh that. I feel like that was a very legitimate conclusion to make when Neph made that post and then stopped being so when he explained. Why'd you not bring it up earlier if you thought that was why he was killed?

I don't know if that's why he was killed, but Vecna was saying that they NK'd Neph because they figured out he was a PR and was using that to assume scum had to have someone very familiar with Neph's playstyle who also hunts PRs. My point was that there was an obvious discussion in the main thread about it, so even people who don't normally PR hunt or who don't know Neph very well would have noticed talk of Neph being a PR.

Also in general I think overanalyzing the NKs is pretty worthless, and it's a good way for scum to get some wifom arguments into the thread that make it look like they're contributing.

[kgray]

Damo can you answer my question?

Iirc the M60 quote was referring to a similar ploy by a different player in that game.

hmmmmmmmmmm

Did you go back and see if his story checks out?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm not actually as terrible at this game as some of you like to think.

Ooh, what are you telling your team right now?

Are you having problems getting QuickTopic to work?

[aarodactyl]

As a matter of fact it was me that suspected Neph was the Parity Cop. The things which caused me to think this were: First of all the way he was keeping quite a low profile; Secondly the way he really didn't engage at all with Brainbomb calling out how he thought Neph was a PR (aw, Brainbomb, never change); Thirdly, the way he suddenly declared he town-read Maniac "for no reason" during N2, after Maniac had been getting a lot of suspicion. This last point made me suspect Neph was going to include Maniac in his N2 scan.

I'm not actually as terrible at this game as some of you like to think.

I'm going to immediately forget all of this because there's no reason to listen to anything you say now that you've been outed. However, I wanted to say that I appreciate you're still posting.