M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[Chaqa]

Can I try to bait someone into baiting someone else for a modkill?

I might bait myself into a modkill just to speed this up.

[Durga]

I'm not sure I understand. What defines baiting a suspect to modkill themselves versus just pressuring or trolling someone?

@Durga, I’m sure this is a “know it when you see it” kind of thing. I think we all here the idea and let’s just not come close.

Trying to get someone *modkilled*? I'm not sure I've seen that before.

[bozotheclown]

I lowkey town read bunny, just off of general nice vibes, talking with celaph, and posting the game guide; ND, for trying to figure things out, even if he comes off as abrasive; teacon, almost entirely based off of post 941; and ghug/brainbomb, for asking about noobs' experience.

I think somethings up with Nep, although the fact that 3 people went after them within 2 minutes weirds me out (posts 111-113). Their explanation didn't sit right with me, but it's too early to call scum or just trying to screw with people.

Jamie's self imposed low posting also doesn't seem right to me - wouldn't it be better to get your thoughts out more? I call this soft scum, since it looks like he's trying to fly under the radar here.

Aarodaytal seems to be eager to get himself proven town, although I'd put that down to being new.

Celaph is trying to avoid pissing anyone off imo, but I think he's solid.

Everyone's sus of kgray seems to be off of meta knowledge, so I have no comment.

Yoyo, bozo, and Chaqa done jack after 2 days, although I would put this as slightly town, cause mafia are the ones who need to prove their non-scumminess, and they need a solid track record to come out on top against actual townies.

What did you like about 941?

[damo666]

941?

The sum of (i^2)*(10^(i-1)) for i = 1 to 3

[kgray]

Sure ##vote Bunny

@kgray: Knowing BunnyGo is scum, do you think it is more likely Balki was taking the opportunity to bus?

I really don't know. I still don't think Balki's EoD1 was particularly alignment indicative and knowing Bunny is scum doesn't change that. I can see Balki's votes as making sense whether he's town or scum but they're not causing me to lean in one direction or another.

I do think Bunny calling out Balki on his vote makes Balki more likely town. It seems unlikely that Bunny would put pressure on his teammate like that.

[President Eden]

One last clarification.

Since last night I was very permissive and even implicitly encouraging of "players making plays," it occurs to me that I may need to discuss the parameters around the moratorium from a "play-to-win" perspective.

Do not try to bait your suspects into a modkill. While obviously "playing to win," I consider this cheating. The purpose of my ultimatum is to discourage discussion of a certain event in the past until game's end, not to encourage baiting people into discussing it so they can be modkilled.

With the recognition that it's a difficult thing to prove, if I become convinced you are trying to bait your suspects into a modkill, then I will modkill you instead.

I don't expect anybody to try it, but I would hate to find out that my permissiveness re: "making plays" led to someone doing so. Hence, this public comment.

Hopefully that's the end of all this. Again and as always, DM me if you have questions or concerns.

I'm not sure I understand. What defines baiting a suspect to modkill themselves versus just pressuring or trolling someone?

I don't have a bright line rule on this, and my threshold for "becoming convinced someone is baiting a modkill" is high. I am mostly posting because someone (who will remain nameless) joked about baiting suspects into modkills, and it occurred to me that someone might take my "play to win" directive seriously enough to try it. No one has behaved in this thread in a manner that prompted me to post.

As practical advice for all players:
- I will be careful with good-faith efforts to pressure people for suspicious behavior on Day 3 or any other day, recognizing that this can run up close to the moratorium. Discussion should be strictly focused on your read of a player's alignment or role based on their behavior and not the behavior itself or any moral/value judgments about the behavior. Again, my threshold is high - if you're not openly inciting discussion of the behavior for reasons clearly unrelated to alignment hunting, you should be fine.
- I suggest not trolling anyone about the incident at issue, however clearly jokingly. It's just not necessary.
- If you are the type of player who uses emotional gambits to read people (e.g. deliberately making someone mad because their emotional reactions are alignment-indicative), you're just gonna have to shelve that strategy when dealing with the proscribed events. There are other ways to hunt.

[Bonatogether]

<snip>

What did you like about 941?

It was asking questions of multiple people, although most of them were softballs.

This post was ages ago, like n1 or something. Why are you bringing this up now?

[Hellenic Riot]

Damnit, that rules out the tactic of a townie pacting with Jamie to get modkilled and therefore bypass the no-hammer rule without changing the game balance

[ghug]

Rereading all of Bunny because my employer did something shitty this morning and they don't deserve my productivity and lol who am I kidding I probably would have done this anyway.

D1:
-He asked Flum, Chaqa, and Jamie when they read their role PMs. I highly doubt all three are scum.
-Flum says Bunny is scum again because he linked the bot.
-I apparently also said Bunny is scum again because of the role PM thing. #ghugisgreat
-Celaph townread Bunny, Durga, and ND with little reason a few hours into the day. Bona agreed on Bunny but not ND. Doubt bona and celaph are both scum.
-Chaqa townreads Bunny for the role PM questioning.
-Bunny asks Celaph about the QT. This townslip is less compelling now.
-Vecna likes the celaph slip in a way that makes me think we don't have three scum in Vecna/Bunny/Celaph
-viewtopic.php?p=192910#p192910 long read list there. Probably some good nuggets.
-Discusses voting me with Maniac. Town points for Maniac.
-Discusses voting Jamie with bozo, votes Jamie. Asks bozo for opinions on my opinions on Jamie. I reeeaaally don't think three scum got on their partner like that D1.
- kgray gives an ordered list of kill options that lists two town first, then Bunny, then damo, then another town. Very slight scum points.
- He voted teacon nakedly in response to a post from me that didn't mention teacon.
-kgray and Balki try to start the late day Bunny wagon. Brain says Bunny is certain town. Flum says "If you're that passionate about bunny, can you give some reasons brain?" which feels very forced.
-Chaqa states he's sheeping Bunny when he votes teacon.

N1:
-kgray says she moved off teacon because she didn't want to vote with Bunny.

D2:
-actually N1, but teacon null reads Bunny, along with HR, Flum, and rd. I doubt HR and Flum are scum together, and town points for both of them. Since I'm here, he puts Jamie, emc, Durga, and kgray in his "some positive, some negative" group. Kinda good for kgray, very good for kgray if emc is scum too. Of his five townreads, two are dead town, and three are aaro, Vecna, and bona. Decent shot at a scum in there. He also seems to have forgotten to give a read of bozo because his formatting stuck bona's and bozo's names together and he gave one read about newness. Town points for bozo. I continue to think that this is the post by which we solve the game. Keep going back to it.
-Bunny analyzes EoD. Dislikes kgray's play, but thinks she's town. Thinks I'm town. Doesn't like Chaqa sheeping him on teacon. Votes Balki without a reason. Shading a teacon voter and voting Balki seems like wanting to establish a narrative of a big bus, which I think makes others on the teacon wagon look better (since Bunny himself was bussing).
-Vecna says he forgot who Bunny was. He near-nulls Bunny in a read list later, but puts him above the null line. @Vecna, what changed?
-

Summary of my EOD reads:

kgray: looks scummy superficially, but probably town based on posts
ghug: looks towny.
Balki: looks scummy.
Durga: unclear.
Flum: Probably town for declaring they'd sit on teacon when it was close.
brain: looks even scummier than kgray, but again it's so scummy I don't think scum!brain would do it. I think it is more likely lost and confused town!brain.
Hamilton: weird post about gold. Not sure if scummy or very very confused.
Chaq: weird...but not like his scum game from last time.

-Balki "I didn’t have any sort of read on Bunny. I just saw your post asking people to start a Bunny wagon, so I did it. I like late movement, and I felt like it might be useful to see what happens." Not trying to take credit for a scumread on Bunny seems townie.
- aaro on teacon "On a more serious note, I'm pretty sure he was only throwing out softballs because there bunny and I had some weird interactions and he was trying to make the thread not weird." I don't like this.
- Aaro explains a little more about how he found Bunny's interactions with him weird. Scumreads Bunny. Dislikes Celaph and Bunny because of the QT thing.
- Flum "Bunny is still kind of scummy too lol." Feels fake.
- Aaro says he might just scumread Bunny because he knows him.
- Bunny moves from Balki to Durga for reasons that will not be discussed here. The Balki wagon hadn't taken off at this point.
-Balki townreads people voting him and kgray, includes Bunny.
-Bunny gets back on Balki. Not much fanfare, just voting his scumread again an hour before EoD with the wagon growing. Only person he could be working to save here is kgray. I feel like this isn't a bus.

Done with day two. Rest later.

[bozotheclown]

We have at least 2 new players. To them, if they missed this in the wall of text, here’s your best research tool:

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/front_page

this is pro town, but more just courteous in general. The only way this is a scum gimmick is if you think you needed to alert one of your new buddies to get with the program. I doubt this is the case.

Remoulade!

laissez bon temps rouler!

and yea, bunny is town

lol, bunny is scum again.

bosox is scum

Why didn't you vote for bo_sox or BunnyGo?

[Chaqa]

--

I'm not sure I understand. What defines baiting a suspect to modkill themselves versus just pressuring or trolling someone?

- If you are the type of player who uses emotional gambits to read people (e.g. deliberately making someone mad because their emotional reactions are alignment-indicative), you're just gonna have to shelve that strategy when dealing with the proscribed events. There are other ways to hunt.[/b]

Well, there goes my strat.

[kgray]

It's a fairly mechanics-lite game so far, not surprised Bozo is off on his own thing.

With the assumption that Bunny and Jamie are scum (which seems 99.9%), I think Maniac looks town. Not sure about who looks scummy from the new information yet. I'm actually kinda surprised my hanging vote theory on Jamie was right.

Why do you think Maniac looks town based on Bunny and Jamie being scum?

It Maniac AND teacon were scum day 1 I think we’d have had a more concerted effort to push ND.

That's a good point. Jamie was the only scum to move to ND in the last hour of the day when the wagons were Maniac, teacon and ND.

[ghug]

this is pro town, but more just courteous in general. The only way this is a scum gimmick is if you think you needed to alert one of your new buddies to get with the program. I doubt this is the case.

Remoulade!

laissez bon temps rouler!

and yea, bunny is town

lol, bunny is scum again.

bosox is scum

Why didn't you vote for bo_sox or BunnyGo?

I think bozo's got the same scent I do.

[bozotheclown]

<snip>

What did you like about 941?

It was asking questions of multiple people, although most of them were softballs.

This post was ages ago, like n1 or something. Why are you bringing this up now?

D1, it is still part of the game record.

[Fluminator]

this is pro town, but more just courteous in general. The only way this is a scum gimmick is if you think you needed to alert one of your new buddies to get with the program. I doubt this is the case.

Remoulade!

laissez bon temps rouler!

and yea, bunny is town

lol, bunny is scum again.

bosox is scum

Why didn't you vote for bo_sox or BunnyGo?

Probably because I had a stronger scumread on Teacon.

[ghug]

Hmm, I have misread Flum before for being too right.

[Fluminator]

No you haven't. You were scum that game.

[kgray]

N1:
-kgray says she moved off teacon because she didn't want to vote with Bunny.

That is absolutely not what I said.

[bozotheclown]

Why do you think Maniac looks town based on Bunny and Jamie being scum?

It Maniac AND teacon were scum day 1 I think we’d have had a more concerted effort to push ND.

That's a good point. Jamie was the only scum to move to ND in the last hour of the day when the wagons were Maniac, teacon and ND.

If that is true, then the town saved teacon, and therefore potentially Maniac, before the mafia had to do anything. The scum were free to sit on teacon or Maniac (as we know BunnyGo did).

[ghug]

No you haven't. You were scum that game.

Was I?

Wasn't that the game where HR was the cop and we had auto so he killed me to troll me? The game where you claimed scum when your daykill was certain to reaction test and ended up townreading me?