M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[Balki Bartokomous]

Can folks please not vote Yoyo unless they have an alignment indicative reason?

We need to use votes to sort alignments, not to kick out the people we don’t like or who aren’t playing.

[e.m.c^42]

##vote ghug, need placeholder, he seems okay.

Will prolly be lurking around till later, bit too low energy to post reasonably.

[celaph]

- Balki continually wasting his vote but then parking on teacon at the last second when it was too late looks much worse in retrospect

This phrasing makes my handsome forehead crinkle too!

How did I “continually waste my vote”?

I voted my conscience on Hamilton Brian. Then when it was clear to me that ship wouldn’t sail, I chose between the two leading wagons! Isn’t that the opposite of wasting my vote? I only have one vote. I used it to tell you all who I thought was scum, and then I weighed in on the emergent dipole.

Hellenic Riot is a smart dude. I just feel like he’s trying to discredit me here.

I know I am having trouble talking about people who are not me. But I’m trying to understand why a bunch of smart people are pushing this incorrect narrative.

Im actually starting to townread Balki for his defense here. Im sure he'd be good at the theatrics as well to appear "wronged" but this just feels all too genuine.

The alternative is that it's a genuine response because he feels that he's being scumread for the wrong reasons. Do you agree with ghug's earlier comment that Balki's defense feels more like an upset town than an angry scum caught for the wrong reasons?

[BunnyGo]

yeah good luck bunny, can only imagine having the responsibility of kids and then having shit outside of your control collapse all around you.

It's a pandemic...it's hard for everyone. If I can find tim for games, it's not awful. I just had a rhythm, it got broke, and I was pissed. Ok...game time...

Summary of my EOD reads:

kgray: looks scummy superficially, but probably town based on posts
ghug: looks towny.
Balki: looks scummy.
Durga: unclear.
Flum: Probably town for declaring they'd sit on teacon when it was close.
brain: looks even scummier than kgray, but again it's so scummy I don't think scum!brain would do it. I think it is more likely lost and confused town!brain.
Hamilton: weird post about gold. Not sure if scummy or very very confused.
Chaq: weird...but not like his scum game from last time.

[celaph]

Can folks please not vote Yoyo unless they have an alignment indicative reason?

We need to use votes to sort alignments, not to kick out the people we don’t like or who aren’t playing.

Assuming Yoyo continues the trend of <5 votes per day while saying nothing alignment indicative, when do we vote him?

I personally agree with the sentiment that there are other kills we would learn more information from, but I really don't want to let someone slip into the later stages of the game without saying much.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Can folks please not vote Yoyo unless they have an alignment indicative reason?

We need to use votes to sort alignments, not to kick out the people we don’t like or who aren’t playing.

Assuming Yoyo continues the trend of <5 votes per day while saying nothing alignment indicative, when do we vote him?

I personally agree with the sentiment that there are other kills we would learn more information from, but I really don't want to let someone slip into the later stages of the game without saying much.

Leave that to the GM.

If we vote for reasons other than sorting alignments, we break the game. The way to find scum is to figure out who is scumhunting and who isn’t. If we all stop scumhunting and play GM instead, then scum will do that too, and it’s going to be very hard to find scum.

[Vecna]

Ah ok thanks GM, that's interesting. Not the standard adjudication, so worth clarifying.

I guess it's meaningless for anyone to declare "I was not roleblocked" because a VT would not even learn this.... but also if you think you were roleblocked, please don't say, because you'd effectively be outing the fact that you had a night action.

The reverse is true as well, claiming you werent roleblocked if you actually were, lets scum know youre a VT.

From a more meta perspective, how often do town lie in these games? I could see a town role lying that they weren't roleblocked so that scum misidentify them.

Youre not aware of a roleblock regardless, so suddenly talking about it will likely just indicate to scum you have a juicy PR to hide.

radio silence on roleblocks

[Vecna]

##vote ghug, need placeholder, he seems okay.

Will prolly be lurking around till later, bit too low energy to post reasonably.

oi, dont make me sheep HR

[Vecna]

This phrasing makes my handsome forehead crinkle too!

How did I “continually waste my vote”?

I voted my conscience on Hamilton Brian. Then when it was clear to me that ship wouldn’t sail, I chose between the two leading wagons! Isn’t that the opposite of wasting my vote? I only have one vote. I used it to tell you all who I thought was scum, and then I weighed in on the emergent dipole.

Hellenic Riot is a smart dude. I just feel like he’s trying to discredit me here.

I know I am having trouble talking about people who are not me. But I’m trying to understand why a bunch of smart people are pushing this incorrect narrative.

Im actually starting to townread Balki for his defense here. Im sure he'd be good at the theatrics as well to appear "wronged" but this just feels all too genuine.

The alternative is that it's a genuine response because he feels that he's being scumread for the wrong reasons. Do you agree with ghug's earlier comment that Balki's defense feels more like an upset town than an angry scum caught for the wrong reasons?

As I said before, I do think scum would be more hesitant to just continue with that line of defense after it appears to be backfiring.

But I might be wrong. Regardless, I think killing Balki today is a mistake. If HB were to flip scum for example, all his actions suddenly look pretty damn good.

[Vecna]

yeah good luck bunny, can only imagine having the responsibility of kids and then having shit outside of your control collapse all around you.

It's a pandemic...it's hard for everyone. If I can find tim for games, it's not awful. I just had a rhythm, it got broke, and I was pissed. Ok...game time...

Summary of my EOD reads:

kgray: looks scummy superficially, but probably town based on posts
ghug: looks towny.
Balki: looks scummy.
Durga: unclear.
Flum: Probably town for declaring they'd sit on teacon when it was close.
brain: looks even scummier than kgray, but again it's so scummy I don't think scum!brain would do it. I think it is more likely lost and confused town!brain.
Hamilton: weird post about gold. Not sure if scummy or very very confused.
Chaq: weird...but not like his scum game from last time.

What differences do you see with chaqas last game? Genuinely curious because ive just been under the impression he lurks out every early game as scum.

Also, ever played with scum bb?

[Vecna]

Can folks please not vote Yoyo unless they have an alignment indicative reason?

We need to use votes to sort alignments, not to kick out the people we don’t like or who aren’t playing.

Assuming Yoyo continues the trend of <5 votes per day while saying nothing alignment indicative, when do we vote him?

I personally agree with the sentiment that there are other kills we would learn more information from, but I really don't want to let someone slip into the later stages of the game without saying much.

Leave that to the GM.

If we vote for reasons other than sorting alignments, we break the game. The way to find scum is to figure out who is scumhunting and who isn’t. If we all stop scumhunting and play GM instead, then scum will do that too, and it’s going to be very hard to find scum.

Well, not like the gm is going to involve himself if yoyo keeps making 2 posts and placing a vote.

Using a cop-type role on these lurkers is pretty excellent id say. Having townclears on slots that scum dont want to kill normally is nice.

[Jamiet99uk]

anyone who votes with me today will get a free gift card to carls junior

VOTE COUNT THE ZEROTH: DON'T TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY EDITION

celaph (1,000,000,000): brainbomb, 999,999,999 Mysterious Votes From A Very Hungry Guy
Immaterial Quantities of Votes (about a half dozen or so): The rest of you mortals

Currently brainbomb is set to owe an ungodly quantity of Carl's Jr. to an unknown person.

41h35m remain.

Jamie is gonna freak out lmao

2. Jamie found this highly entertaining. It always used to be ND who complained if the GM did anything other than post real Vote Counts and phase end flavour. Oh, but ND's not here, what a shame, how sad, never mind.

[worcej]

I havent read anything of D2 yet due to typical weekend low activity and my wife working OT (removes my access to PC and I become primary parent) so don’t shoot the messenger if this has been beat to death. I’ll be better at posting once I am back to work tomorrow (ironic, I know).

Anyways... With the flip of teacon (well done vig) this sheds some light on 3 people on D1 - brainbomb, kgray, and Hamilton. Of the three, this is my general opinion of their EOD.

Brain: I don’t see a logical thought process for why he moved to ND at the end. He came off as towning ND a little bit but near the EOD also was towning teacon. In general, what made teacon more town than ND to brain? Brain said he didn’t want to merc ND for being annoying, but it almost seems like that is exactly what he did.

Kgray: The baseline for voting ND was there based on ND’s ‘attacks’ (lack of a better word right now). I could also see her late push on Bunny as an attempt to justify taking teacon off as the top wagon and then to end up on ND to ensure the miskill happened. It took me going back to 3:30 before EOD before I saw shade directed at Bunny, so her move to him at EOD looks even worse. She also seemed a little defensive to Durga’s comment about Teacon/ND possibly being saved, which is a little interesting in hindsight now.

Hamilton: I don’t see anything really major, just a random last second vote to make ND die for sure. His posts seems to indicate earlier that he is beginning to town teacon, so if that read stuck then he could be in the same boat as brain. Also, Hamilton landing on ND complies with the developing player process that I peg Hamilton as.

That all being said - I am the most suspicious of kgray. I am sure there is a deep explanation of some sort buried in D2 and I will read it eventually, but she has done enough to warrant ##vote kgray

[Hamilton Brian]

The shroom residue is hanging heavy. Today's going to be slow and plodding, intellectually, from me. Yeah, yeah, I know what those of you have played with me before are thinking.

So the first bit of a look I want to throw out there is the vote on D1. I still say there is something to who was on teacon, then off.

With less than 2 hours to go, Bunny votes Tea. With an hour to go, kgray votes for tea. HR on tea. Under 30 minutes to go, Vashta votes tea. At this point, tea becomes the lead wagon with 5 on. ND has 3. The Teacon wagon really wasn't happening until HR's vote, making it tied with Maniac's wagon at 4 a piece. So Vashta really played a pivotal role in launching a deciding vote on now-confirmed scum.

At 11 minutes, kgray took the vote off Tea and put it on Bunny. Would scum save a partner by making that move with that much time left? What's scummier? Moving the vote much closer to deadline? I don't know.

Chaqa then puts the 5th vote on Tea with 4 minutes remaining. Brainbomb moves to ND to tie it 5 - 5. Balki then takes the vote off of Bunny and put it on quelle surprise me with time remaining. (What was that all about?) Kgray then casts the ultimate deciding vote on ND, pushing them into the lead.

Balki, what were you doing farting around with that vote? If it was to test the market on me, you didn't do a very convincing job of trying to bring others along. I think you addressed it earlier, but I can't be bugged to find it right now. It just stinks.

Ultimately, I would be good with looking at wagons of either kgray or Balki. I am unsure about brainbomb's role in the votes...not sure it looks scummy or not, but it doesn't look great.

[celaph]

Assuming Yoyo continues the trend of <5 votes per day while saying nothing alignment indicative, when do we vote him?

I personally agree with the sentiment that there are other kills we would learn more information from, but I really don't want to let someone slip into the later stages of the game without saying much.

Leave that to the GM.

If we vote for reasons other than sorting alignments, we break the game. The way to find scum is to figure out who is scumhunting and who isn’t. If we all stop scumhunting and play GM instead, then scum will do that too, and it’s going to be very hard to find scum.

Well, not like the gm is going to involve himself if yoyo keeps making 2 posts and placing a vote.

Using a cop-type role on these lurkers is pretty excellent id say. Having townclears on slots that scum dont want to kill normally is nice.

Your second point here has convinced me to ##vote Hamilton Brian for now. I'd still like Yoyo to talk though.

[Hamilton Brian]

Also, given the competency with which I assume Durga and Vecna play, them being on my wagon has me wondering about their alignment.

Scum know I am thick and dense; not very helpful to town, as town. I'm a good player to keep around since the detective work is done better by others. I would say that those two are "probably" not scum for the above reason.

[Hamilton Brian]

Using a cop-type role on these lurkers is pretty excellent id say. Having townclears on slots that scum dont want to kill normally is nice.

Your second point here has convinced me to ##vote Hamilton Brian for now. I'd still like Yoyo to talk though.
[/quote]

What's the second point, and why has it convinced you? Christ I can't think right now.

[e.m.c^42]

##vote ghug, need placeholder, he seems okay.

Will prolly be lurking around till later, bit too low energy to post reasonably.

oi, dont make me sheep HR

Well, there is reason, he has been too agreeable and with the flow of the general reads in thread. course, it could be coz he's setting them, but point is still there until I get shit together later and actually read lmao)

[Jamiet99uk]

Can folks please not vote Yoyo unless they have an alignment indicative reason?

We need to use votes to sort alignments, not to kick out the people we don’t like or who aren’t playing.

3. How is it possible for us to come to an alignment indicative reason if he does not post? I did some analysis a few games back which suggested that in the lowest 5 posters up to EoD 2, you were likely to find, on average, at least two scum. Those are actually reasonably good odds at this early stage. Yoyoyozo is someone who has lurked particularly hard as scum in the past. If he continues to do this in the present game, at what point will you stop giving him a free pass?

[BunnyGo]

yeah good luck bunny, can only imagine having the responsibility of kids and then having shit outside of your control collapse all around you.

It's a pandemic...it's hard for everyone. If I can find tim for games, it's not awful. I just had a rhythm, it got broke, and I was pissed. Ok...game time...

Summary of my EOD reads:

kgray: looks scummy superficially, but probably town based on posts
ghug: looks towny.
Balki: looks scummy.
Durga: unclear.
Flum: Probably town for declaring they'd sit on teacon when it was close.
brain: looks even scummier than kgray, but again it's so scummy I don't think scum!brain would do it. I think it is more likely lost and confused town!brain.
Hamilton: weird post about gold. Not sure if scummy or very very confused.
Chaq: weird...but not like his scum game from last time.

What differences do you see with chaqas last game? Genuinely curious because ive just been under the impression he lurks out every early game as scum.

Also, ever played with scum bb?

I've only played with Balki once (I think), and I don't remember the game.

I don't recall a time with scum brain. This does not mean it has ever happened.

Chaqa last game was engaged. He was actively picking a fight with kgray. IIRC he was the one who started that. He was trying to move other people with questions. He was present. Could he lurk instead? Sure. But it's different this game.

The thing that is the same between this game and last for chaqa is he isn't doing "weird" stuff. I've gotten used to town chaqa forcing counter claims with PRs, or other crazy stuff.

I think the common thread is: He likes mechanics. He LOVED his neighborhood. He loved the buying process for scum last game. He likes mass claims and PR CCs.

So, what's going on here? It could be any of: different way to not draw attention as scum, or bored VT biding time while stoned, or PR trying to lie low. Or maybe he just has zoned out on Chipotle and Among Us...