M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[kgray]

b) I don't really get why you question my vote. It was pointless leaving my vote on Durga and I was pretty convinced ND was town so I had to vote teacon or Maniac. Of the two I felt Maniac was less towny so voted there. In hindsight however I probably should have voted teacon being the wagon more likely to save ND which was my prime motivator. Hmmm. I'm a bit annoyed with myself now. O well, can't change it now.

Town!damo cares more who dies and is more active in the vote. This reminds me so much of when you’re scum and the lead wagons are town.

[ghug]

If we can't kill ND, we should kill brain or Maniac or worcej.

what happened to low hanging fruit votes eh ghug?

Who here do you think doesn't belong in that bucket?

[ghug]

we are not on the same wavelength yet

You think she'd say that as scum?

She says cheeky shit like that as scum all the time and you damn well know it

No she doesn't. She's really reserved as scum.

[ghug]

Still cant shake the feeling this is theatrics scum jamiet

Do you think I was theatrically engaging with my scum-buddy Kgray's Anatomy, or theatrically roasting my scum-buddy Clown Bozo?

theatrically attempting to mimic your town meta

I'm not agreeing with anything Vecna says.

[ghug]

What's your issue with Flum?

He said I was playing to my scum meta but didn't want to vote for me.

a) I think I'm not, and b) I think town Flum sees going after me as a worthwhile challenge if he thinks I'm scum. We're also not agreeing on everything, which is what usually happens.

You still are. I know you're kind of tired of being scum and I'm getting hints of boredom and disengagement this game. You're making up for it by policy killing ND and shitposting more than normal but you are not near as proactive as normal.

I'll never kill you day 1. And there are reasons you could still be town I can think of but I don't love the reaction that you say you think you're playing normally.

There's no normally. Scum ghug doesn't do something as out there as commit to policy voting shitty players for days. I don't really expect worcej to buy that argument, but I do expect you to.

[ghug]

If we can't kill ND, we should kill brain or Maniac or worcej.

what happened to low hanging fruit votes eh ghug?

Also, I am now townread but an hour into EOD you wanted me to be killed?

Can you take a moment and explain the logical change ghug?

You're a light townread because I thought your push on me made sense from a town perspective. I'd still like to not be playing with you. I think I actually answered this to kgray a few posts later.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I am having a different read (more null leaning toward scum) because I don't think I've been in a game with them where they've been anything but scum. Wily, investigative, as usual...and I don't sense a difference between this game or the others.

Referring to kgray there; didn't complete my thought.

This Hamilton Brian post is scummy to me. It is completely empty. All it says is that Hamilton Brian has played with kgray before and she has always been scum.

[damo666]

b) I don't really get why you question my vote. It was pointless leaving my vote on Durga and I was pretty convinced ND was town so I had to vote teacon or Maniac. Of the two I felt Maniac was less towny so voted there. In hindsight however I probably should have voted teacon being the wagon more likely to save ND which was my prime motivator. Hmmm. I'm a bit annoyed with myself now. O well, can't change it now.

Town!damo cares more who dies and is more active in the vote. This reminds me so much of when you’re scum and the lead wagons are town.

I flagged up ND as likely town and voted a competing wagon. What more can I do?

Scum!kgray thinks deeply about her posts so I guess I'm leaning town on you despite you keeping on trying to find fault in everything I post.

[kgray]

There wasn't exactly time for a lot of discussion about it, since it was right at EOD.

Not even a quick post as to why they were voting? A quick list of reasons that they could then elaborate on more after the flip?

That close to EOD it doesn’t bother me (realizing I’m one of the people who did this). People should be able to elaborate more after the deadline, and especially if it’s a surprising vote that wasn’t expected based on previous reads. Do any of those votes fit that category for you that you want more explanation on?

[bozotheclown]

It is possible kgray was distancing from teacon, then moved off of teacon after teacon became the lead wagon when Vecna gave her the opportunity. Hamilton's EOD vote could have been a cross post with kgray as they both voted to save teacon.

In this scenario, I would go with teacon, kgray, Hamilton, damo, emc, and aarodactyl as my top scum suspects.

What other reasons do you have to be suspicious of Kgray? Because in a normal flow, there has to be a preceding determinant before you start trying to form connections like this.

Id be very interested in those previous indicators

Why didn't you ask me that?

You're being pretty open with your thoughts, wherewas I'm getting less with which to read HR.

Why teacon over ND and Maniac?

Well I was also pretty open in listing 5 people who I'd vote for, and teacon wasn't on that list. I'm pretty surprised you didn't mention that.

I don't get the argument for scum!Maniac and although I'd be perfectly fine with ND dying and I do scumread him, teacon feels better right now. I hated his vote for Jamie and he feels really different from last game.

Here kgray explains why she is voting for teacon over ND, but she was still hedging, giving her the option of moving to ND. When she did move from teacon to ND, she inserted a short push on BunnyGo that was unlikely to go anywhere, which is a classic scum move to obscure a significant vote change.

The only thing I questioned previously was that emc claimed he had not played with kgray recently, and kgray did not point out that they were both in M60 and M59 (although emc was a sub in those games).

[bozotheclown]

The 'prob' implies the unstated "assuming he is town". Obviously.

Go vote somewhere worthwhile.

I do not know if I buy damo's explanation.

Also, I question damo avoiding ND vs. teacon with his final vote:

ND and teacon both town imo so

##vote Maniac

a) your prerogative but the explanation is true. Jamie interestingly hasn't obvtowned to his usual obvtowning standard yet. A bit early yet I guess but watching that slot.
b) I don't really get why you question my vote. It was pointless leaving my vote on Durga and I was pretty convinced ND was town so I had to vote teacon or Maniac. Of the two I felt Maniac was less towny so voted there. In hindsight however I probably should have voted teacon being the wagon more likely to save ND which was my prime motivator. Hmmm. I'm a bit annoyed with myself now. O well, can't change it now.

You started by saying you do not understand why I question your vote, but then went on to question your own vote for the same reason I found it questionable.

[kgray]

He is calling out late movement with no explanation, which is good because I am the anti-kgray on this and that unless a claim comes in or something, if a vote is moved you should back it up with reasoning regardless of timing.

I find this pretty funny because I’m always very interested in people’s reasonings for their votes. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to provide an explanation right at EOD.

If anything, wanting people to explain their votes is being the anti-damo.

[Vecna]

CALL GM: The initial post states mafia have up to 4 roles. Does this mean the actual number is randomized somehow and might be lower than the 4 listed? Or was that just a leftover from the signup and to account for lower player counts?

##GM ANSWER
The exact number of scum in this game has been enumerated as six. It is neither more nor less than six. The exact process wherein Dialectic Materialism led to the economic enumeration of that number is not relevant. (But it might be the result of the evolution of documentation, and authorship by committee. )

Thats not what I asked...

[Vecna]

@Vecna

Usually your catchup posts involve a lot of town hunting, but literally every post in your last stream was throwing shade on someone different.

your point being....?

[bozotheclown]

There seemed to be a majority of people who agreed that he was town (albeit dislikeable), but a sudden rush of votes doesn't sit right with me - there didn't seem like a lot of discussion about it. Like, Hamilton said that his read was null on ND, and then he votes without saying anything??? Brainbomb had said that he thought ND was a PR and that he would never kill him (2141/108), and you, kgray, didn't say anything about NDv in the immediate leadup to this. In fact, you voted bunny 8 minutes before you voted ND - why?

I am hoping I can address a few things here that explain my votes all around. So yesterday I was having the internal argument over the votes. I didn't want to jump on the ND wagon since my early reads of them were town. There were several 2 vote wagons...of those, Maniac's was the one that I felt the least-conflicted with. Harkening back to Worcej's concern that a lot of my scumreads were lowvolume posters. 30 minutes to go, Jamie mentions Yoyo. Hey now, in terms of presence, Yoyo makes for a better wagon than Maniac, in my opinion. Yoyo gave A LOT less than Maniac over the day (frankly gave us nothing), so jump to Yoyo. I suppose I didn't do my part to generate any further interest in them, and no one else was biting. No sense sitting on the vanity, may as well go for a lead. Of the 3 leads, I lean town on teacon, so it came down to ND and Maniac. Of the two, ND was the big distraction to town, hence my vote.

Did you see kgray's vote for ND before you voted for him?

[bozotheclown]

Partially because Vecna said teacon is town, and I townread Vecna and trust his reads somewhat. Partially because I think Bunny is scum and he was voting for teacon, and his "happy with where his vote is" post really bugged me. Partially because I thought that town!teacon was more likely to show his towniness to me later than town!ND was, and in the end I'd rather be wrong and have ND out of the game than be wrong and have teacon out of the game.

BunnyGo was already voting for teacon when you voted for teacon, and the other things except what Vecna said seems like they would have been true when you voted for teacon.

Also, the 7 minute push on BunnyGo between taking teacon out of the lead and putting ND in the lead looks suspicious.

Have you read the game or just EOD? Also I specifically said Bunny’s “happy with where my vote is” post before leaving was extra scummy imo, so vecna’s comment wasn’t the only thing that changed.

I have read the game. BunnyGo's post does not explain why you listed 3 things that did not change as explanations. Why did you not like BunnyGo saying he was happy with his vote, when he gave the same reason for voting for teacon that you did?

[bozotheclown]

It is possible kgray was distancing from teacon, then moved off of teacon after teacon became the lead wagon when Vecna gave her the opportunity. Hamilton's EOD vote could have been a cross post with kgray as they both voted to save teacon.

In this scenario, I would go with teacon, kgray, Hamilton, damo, emc, and aarodactyl as my top scum suspects.

So all this depends on teacon being scum. If he’s town do you still scumread any of these people?

The questions I have about damo, emc, and aarodactyl are mostly independent of teacon's alignment.

[damo666]

I do not know if I buy damo's explanation.

Also, I question damo avoiding ND vs. teacon with his final vote:

a) your prerogative but the explanation is true. Jamie interestingly hasn't obvtowned to his usual obvtowning standard yet. A bit early yet I guess but watching that slot.
b) I don't really get why you question my vote. It was pointless leaving my vote on Durga and I was pretty convinced ND was town so I had to vote teacon or Maniac. Of the two I felt Maniac was less towny so voted there. In hindsight however I probably should have voted teacon being the wagon more likely to save ND which was my prime motivator. Hmmm. I'm a bit annoyed with myself now. O well, can't change it now.

You started by saying you do not understand why I question your vote, but then went on to question your own vote for the same reason I found it questionable.

Yes I realise that. I thought about it more in answering. Just providing an honest answer.

[dargorygel]

CALL GM: The initial post states mafia have up to 4 roles. Does this mean the actual number is randomized somehow and might be lower than the 4 listed? Or was that just a leftover from the signup and to account for lower player counts?

##GM ANSWER
The exact number of scum in this game has been enumerated as six. It is neither more nor less than six. The exact process wherein Dialectic Materialism led to the economic enumeration of that number is not relevant. (But it might be the result of the evolution of documentation, and authorship by committee. )

Thats not what I asked...

Aye, damo pointed that out, too. My delaying tactic till I could confer with PresEden was unsuccessful. So I'll answer in this way, admonishing that he might be willing to give more information than I am (miserly that I am.) My answer is simply that there are up to four roles given. Could be any number up to four.

[President Eden]

##GM ANSWER
The exact number of scum in this game has been enumerated as six. It is neither more nor less than six. The exact process wherein Dialectic Materialism led to the economic enumeration of that number is not relevant. (But it might be the result of the evolution of documentation, and authorship by committee. )

Thats not what I asked...

Aye, damo pointed that out, too. My delaying tactic till I could confer with PresEden was unsuccessful. So I'll answer in this way, admonishing that he might be willing to give more information than I am (miserly that I am.) My answer is simply that there are up to four roles given. Could be any number up to four.

This is correct. The precise number of town and mafia power roles is deliberately left out of the setup information. There are 0-5 town power roles, 15-20 townies, 0-4 mafia power roles, and 2-6 goons.