M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[dargorygel]

@jamie
The removal of the space in the list was more confusing than your choice of candidate.

[Jamiet99uk]

I also don't believe any town with half a brain agree so easily with Vecna stupid plan yesterday. Can someone tell me what great information we got in exchange for having one less town today? I can't believe town Kgray just followed that plan without questioning. Chaqa too. But Kgray is more obvious.

We learned that Macca was telling the truth about Governating himself.

We avoided the danger of scum Macca lying about his Governor choice and enabling the scum to cause a mis-kill which would have won them the game.

[Jamiet99uk]

@jamie
The removal of the space in the list was more confusing than your choice of candidate.

I didn't remove a space, I put Pedro in it.
If you think this makes me scum, vote for me.

[Jamiet99uk]

The question is whether we will get another chance to save.
We need the correct daykill today.

True. Maybe they assumed they wouldn't need to save money for future RBs because it looks like we're about to miskill...

How did they have that much money in the first place?

80 to recruit, and 4 for role blocks, leaves only 6 coins for purchasing. If they didn't take 2 cheap roles, they took the white flag.

Maybe they didn't recruit after all?

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't believe the two roleblocks, unless scum opted for the white flag they don't have 4 points to spare I think. Even if they took Tree Stump.

Also, both Healers choices just suck badly.

I also don't believe any town with half a brain agree so easily with Vecna stupid plan yesterday. Can someone tell me what great information we got in exchange for having one less town today? I can't believe town Kgray just followed that plan without questioning. Chaqa too. But Kgray is more obvious.

##vote Kgray

I tend to agree re the the healers.
Both roleblocked, neither saved Vecna and neither saved themselves.
Anything from 0 to 4 lies here. If they are both fully telling the truth I will eat Jamie's shoe.

Technically it's 0 to 6 lies Damo.
Which potential lies did you rule out?

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't believe the two roleblocks, unless scum opted for the white flag they don't have 4 points to spare I think. Even if they took Tree Stump.

Also, both Healers choices just suck badly.

I also don't believe any town with half a brain agree so easily with Vecna stupid plan yesterday. Can someone tell me what great information we got in exchange for having one less town today? I can't believe town Kgray just followed that plan without questioning. Chaqa too. But Kgray is more obvious.

##vote Kgray

I tend to agree re the the healers.
Both roleblocked, neither saved Vecna and neither saved themselves.
Anything from 0 to 4 lies here. If they are both fully telling the truth I will eat Jamie's shoe.

Technically it's 0 to 6 lies Damo.
Which potential lies did you rule out?

Just to extrapolate on what I mean when I say "0 to 6"

Statement 1: Kgray claims Roleblock
Statement 2: Kgray claims a save on Darg (and thus not Vecna)
Statement 3: Kgray claims no self-save

Statement 4: Jamie claims Roleblock
Statement 5: Jamie claims a save on Macca (and thus not Vecna)
Statement 6: Jamie claims no self-save

Now before you say "oh but statements 2+3 and 5+6 are just the same", well no they aren't, because I could have truthfully claimed I didn't save myself, but lied about Macca being my target, for example. (This is not actually the case as all my statements were truthful).

[Jamiet99uk]

There's a bit of WIFOM here, but if Kgray and I are scum Faith Healers together, would it not have made much more sense for us to agree that one of us would claim they attempted to save Vecna, but were Roleblocked, to gain a little towncred, while the other claimed a self-save or something? Or for some real fun, we could both have claimed we protected Vecna, thus foiling each other (oh no!).

If anything the events of last night make me lean towards Kgray being town because in this situation I don't see why scum Kgray wouldn't claim to have attempted to protect Vecna.

[dargorygel]

@jamie
The removal of the space in the list was more confusing than your choice of candidate.

I didn't remove a space, I put Pedro in it.
If you think this makes me scum, vote for me.

Not my point at all.

[dargorygel]

True. Maybe they assumed they wouldn't need to save money for future RBs because it looks like we're about to miskill...

How did they have that much money in the first place?

80 to recruit, and 4 for role blocks, leaves only 6 coins for purchasing. If they didn't take 2 cheap roles, they took the white flag.

Maybe they didn't recruit after all?

Possible

[damo666]

Thanks, but why?

Do you believe him?

Why would I lie about who I protected?
Or, do you think I am somehow lying about being Faith Healer?
Or, what?

I thought you might be lying about who you protected. Macca seems a strange choice. You have however subsequently explained it quite well so we move on.

[damo666]

I attempted to protect Macca.

Thanks, but why?

I felt if you were town, you were the second most likely target after Vecna.

I did not protect Vecna because he was the most obvious kill target, and therefore: 1) There seemed a not insignificant chance that Kgray would try to protect him (and if we both did that, it would fail), and 2) If the Scum were going to use a Roleblock, this would be the night.

Because of (1) I deliberately attempted to select a viable target that I thought Kgray would not have picked. I got this half right. And (2) proved to be entirely correct since I *was* roleblocked as I suspected I might be.

I am sorry we did not save Vecna but if the scum had determined to kill him, there was going to be no stopping them, since they apparently had enough credit left for two roleblocks.

Does the fact that the scum had at least $4.00 left at the end of D5 tell us anything? Damo do you have any theories?

I think it implies at least 2 scum in Chaqa darg rdr (in that order of scumlieliness).

[damo666]

Revised scumteam guess

Min 1 max 2 from kgray Jamie
Min 1 max 2 from Macca Bunny
Min 1 max 2 from Chaqa dargo rdr

That's 16 possible teams. I'll see if I can eliminate any through vca and post later.

Scrap this, likely incorrect. Explain later.

[damo666]

True. Maybe they assumed they wouldn't need to save money for future RBs because it looks like we're about to miskill...

How did they have that much money in the first place?

80 to recruit, and 4 for role blocks, leaves only 6 coins for purchasing. If they didn't take 2 cheap roles, they took the white flag.

Maybe they didn't recruit after all?

Don't be daft. Not recruit and not buy high value role? Pah!

[damo666]

I don't believe the two roleblocks, unless scum opted for the white flag they don't have 4 points to spare I think. Even if they took Tree Stump.

Also, both Healers choices just suck badly.

I also don't believe any town with half a brain agree so easily with Vecna stupid plan yesterday. Can someone tell me what great information we got in exchange for having one less town today? I can't believe town Kgray just followed that plan without questioning. Chaqa too. But Kgray is more obvious.

##vote Kgray

I tend to agree re the the healers.
Both roleblocked, neither saved Vecna and neither saved themselves.
Anything from 0 to 4 lies here. If they are both fully telling the truth I will eat Jamie's shoe.

Technically it's 0 to 6 lies Damo.
Which potential lies did you rule out?

I discounted nonsaving

[damo666]

There's a bit of WIFOM here, but if Kgray and I are scum Faith Healers together, would it not have made much more sense for us to agree that one of us would claim they attempted to save Vecna, but were Roleblocked, to gain a little towncred, while the other claimed a self-save or something? Or for some real fun, we could both have claimed we protected Vecna, thus foiling each other (oh no!).

If anything the events of last night make me lean towards Kgray being town because in this situation I don't see why scum Kgray wouldn't claim to have attempted to protect Vecna.

I like this post. Probably a maximum of 1 scum FH hence I must revisit my scumguess.

[Jamiet99uk]

How did they have that much money in the first place?

80 to recruit, and 4 for role blocks, leaves only 6 coins for purchasing. If they didn't take 2 cheap roles, they took the white flag.

Maybe they didn't recruit after all?

Don't be daft. Not recruit and not buy high value role? Pah!

Well it would give them a lot of credit for Roleblocks and such.

[Jamiet99uk]

@jamie
The removal of the space in the list was more confusing than your choice of candidate.

I didn't remove a space, I put Pedro in it.
If you think this makes me scum, vote for me.

Not my point at all.

Then please make your point clearer.

[damo666]

I'd like to see our daykill chaqa or rdr at this point.
##VOTE RDRIVERA2005

This would point to chaqa and darg being the 2 low value scum as I suspected.

So, best guess is now

[0,1] Macca Bunny
[0,1] kgray Jamie
darg & Chaqa

so

MDC + K/R/B/J
BDC + K/R/J
KDC + R/B
JDC + R/B

best guess MDC+K (not taking VCA into account)

[damo666]

Maybe they didn't recruit after all?

Don't be daft. Not recruit and not buy high value role? Pah!

Well it would give them a lot of credit for Roleblocks and such.

I don't buy it. The highest combination cost of outstanding available roles is 25 (2 FH + UB or ONT). 10 for day chat leaves them with 55. If that's the case I will only eat shoes for the rest of lockdown.

[Jamiet99uk]

Don't be daft. Not recruit and not buy high value role? Pah!

Well it would give them a lot of credit for Roleblocks and such.

I don't buy it. The highest combination cost of outstanding available roles is 25 (2 FH + UB or ONT). 10 for day chat leaves them with 55. If that's the case I will only eat shoes for the rest of lockdown.

Fair analysis.

Then we must get this right today. It's a shame that as town, I'm so terrible at reading people.