M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[Vecna]

if flum keeps his vote on a town Kgray were doomed regardless if 1 person votes Macca.

Were basically down to hoping Kgray is scum (without macca) or hoping that flum will be around at EoD.

If neither happens, we cannot even afford to have a vote on Macca

[Chaqa]

So youre saying you marked the DV in green because you thought it was Ghug?

Yes. I’d thought he was DV since like Day 2 or so

Can you explain why you thought so Chaqa?

One of the first posts once we got our role PMs, he mentioned the DV. It wasn’t much to go on, but it fit more and more as the days went on.

To clarify though, my town read on ghug was not based on this belief.

[Vecna]

##vote chaqa

[damo666]

if flum keeps his vote on a town Kgray were doomed regardless if 1 person votes Macca.

Were basically down to hoping Kgray is scum (without macca) or hoping that flum will be around at EoD.

If neither happens, we cannot even afford to have a vote on Macca

I don't get this. If kgray is scum and Macca is scum why does it matter if Macca is voteless or has 1 vote? Am I missing something obvious?

[Vecna]

@flum given the roles people may have, the bot doesn't accurately represent the correct VC, unless peterlund has managed to program doublevoting and tree stump bits into a config page somewhere.

The double vote is only revealed at EoD. The tree stump should be handled by telling the bot the player is dead.

this post you mean?

[Chaqa]

If you are actually town as you claim, then how can you be so sure that scum knew who the double voter was......

Because they killed seth last night???

Youre suggesting they knew it instantly on the spot, while Ghug had not flipped yet, Kgray literally just claimed, and they most likely also would not have known your role.

Quite a difference with them knowing it by the end of the night phase.

Mafia also has role cop and possibly tracker(s), so it’s quite likely they have had more info than us the whole time

[Chaqa]

who is scum with Kgray?

Rivera for a start.

Bunny or macca seem possible. Maybe both.

Still unsure if there's a "deep cover" scum in the Vecna/Jamie/Dargo group.

I'm curious. Did you look at Vecna's "hard towncore" posts that dargo made that "couldn't possibly be faked"? Do you find them as convincing?

Link to the post? It’s all bleeding together.

[Vecna]

if flum keeps his vote on a town Kgray were doomed regardless if 1 person votes Macca.

Were basically down to hoping Kgray is scum (without macca) or hoping that flum will be around at EoD.

If neither happens, we cannot even afford to have a vote on Macca

I don't get this. If kgray is scum and Macca is scum why does it matter if Macca is voteless or has 1 vote? Am I missing something obvious?

if one town vote is stuck on macca and one townvote (flum's) is stuck on Kgray then no matter who we wagon, scum can always all vote for Kgray if she is town in the last minute.

its just hypothetical whatever talk

[Chaqa]

who is scum with Kgray?

Rivera for a start.

Bunny or macca seem possible. Maybe both.

Still unsure if there's a "deep cover" scum in the Vecna/Jamie/Dargo group.

Would you be truely surprised that most of the other people are probably thinking that you two have just been hardcore bussing eachother?

Loads of other people keep flipping their opinion all the time, the two of you have been path-dependent projectiles for quite some time now

I wouldn't be surprised, no. It's a good strategy for kgray to adopt after I caught her, because now even if we catch her, you all will likely come at me later on and get scum another mis-kill.

[BunnyGo]

rdrivera/damo...
I have strongly townread damo all game. I even changed my 'use plan' for my fruit based on HIS (and others' description/advice... but really mostly HIS not performing as i expected...) announcement of the fruit. This morning, I am thinking that I have some bias going. His argument about Jamie is faulty, yes. I am not sure that is AI, though. He is picking holes in the prevailing reasoning, but that is very damo, yes? I am not ready to vote for him.

rdrivera has not made an impression on me. It doesn't seem likely to me that scum would choose that role. But maybe teacon (et al) are right. IF scum had chosen rdr's role, it would have had the result we presently have. Rdr seems 'safe.' AND he would have low-boiled the entire game? I don't know... he might have, as scum, tried to take an active town-leader persona.

I do not really see either likely.

Awesome, welcome to my towncore - you just flipped as hard as wisconsin

Here's the post where Vecna announces dargo is in his towncore. All dargo had to do was agree that Macca was scum and then post whatever about damo and rdr that Vecna had mused about. Let me know if anyone else sees something massively convincing here.

For Chaqa, Vecna, and everyone else. I see nothing here that should put anyone in Vecna's "hardtowncore", but you should read these couple pages and decide for yourselves.

[dargorygel]

Chaqa trying to explain his DV knowledge...

More importantly, my townreads are on someone from my scumlist. Consolodation.

##VOTE CHAQA

[dargorygel]

Awesome, welcome to my towncore - you just flipped as hard as wisconsin

Here's the post where Vecna announces dargo is in his towncore. All dargo had to do was agree that Macca was scum and then post whatever about damo and rdr that Vecna had mused about. Let me know if anyone else sees something massively convincing here.

For Chaqa, Vecna, and everyone else. I see nothing here that should put anyone in Vecna's "hardtowncore", but you should read these couple pages and decide for yourselves.

Keep singing that ole song.
I don't see the traction you imply.

Wanna come vote chaqa?

[Vecna]

Because they killed seth last night???

Youre suggesting they knew it instantly on the spot, while Ghug had not flipped yet, Kgray literally just claimed, and they most likely also would not have known your role.

Quite a difference with them knowing it by the end of the night phase.

Mafia also has role cop and possibly tracker(s), so it’s quite likely they have had more info than us the whole time

mafia only has points for rolecop if 2/3 of you/darg/Rdrivera are scum
mafia only has info on ghug if bunny is scum (dont think damo wouldve made those 2 guesses on Kgray and Jamiet unless paired - even then the Kgray result came in too late).

I mean, all of the above are very possible ofcourse, and these things could be going on, but as a throwaway comment about scum knowing these things it shows quite a lot of outcome thinking without the town process of deducing these things.

[dargorygel]

When I queried vecna about his townread of me, he didn't try to come up with a mechanical reason. He stated his read... admitted it was an induction, not a deduction.

If he had tried later to come up with a mech reason, I would have been suspicious.

Vecna's honesty is refreshing.

[Vecna]

Rivera for a start.

Bunny or macca seem possible. Maybe both.

Still unsure if there's a "deep cover" scum in the Vecna/Jamie/Dargo group.

Would you be truely surprised that most of the other people are probably thinking that you two have just been hardcore bussing eachother?

Loads of other people keep flipping their opinion all the time, the two of you have been path-dependent projectiles for quite some time now

I wouldn't be surprised, no. It's a good strategy for kgray to adopt after I caught her, because now even if we catch her, you all will likely come at me later on and get scum another mis-kill.

yes, if you are town I dont see us ever winning this

[Chaqa]

Chaqa trying to explain his DV knowledge...

More importantly, my townreads are on someone from my scumlist. Consolodation.

##VOTE CHAQA

My *incorrect* DV knowledge.

I didn't know being wrong about a role someone had was scummy.

From my perspective, this whole push on me is ridiculous. Yesterday we were ONE VOTE off from killing Kgray.

Ghug was voting for her.

Seth was voting for her with his double vote.

Flum was voting for her.

Yet, a bunch of you guys decided ("nah, let's get GHUG!") and he's dead and no both him and Seth flipped town and we lost the DV.

And instead of voting for kgray, as the only logical course of action following yesterday... you're voting me.

Y'all are throwing hard.

[Vecna]

When I queried vecna about his townread of me, he didn't try to come up with a mechanical reason. He stated his read... admitted it was an induction, not a deduction.

If he had tried later to come up with a mech reason, I would have been suspicious.

Vecna's honesty is refreshing.

and very convenient for you if im wrong

[dargorygel]

When I queried vecna about his townread of me, he didn't try to come up with a mechanical reason. He stated his read... admitted it was an induction, not a deduction.

If he had tried later to come up with a mech reason, I would have been suspicious.

Vecna's honesty is refreshing.

and very convenient for you if im wrong

And very HELPFUL for me if you're wrong. I do see how you could be TROMPING town in this game. The fact that they haven't NKed you is suspicious to me. But I also reckon I see what they did when they did.

If you are scum, you will win some sort of award.

[Vecna]

For all the people voting Chaqa: Would you also be ok voting Kgray instead?

[BunnyGo]

Here's the post where Vecna announces dargo is in his towncore. All dargo had to do was agree that Macca was scum and then post whatever about damo and rdr that Vecna had mused about. Let me know if anyone else sees something massively convincing here.

For Chaqa, Vecna, and everyone else. I see nothing here that should put anyone in Vecna's "hardtowncore", but you should read these couple pages and decide for yourselves.

Keep singing that ole song.
I don't see the traction you imply.

Wanna come vote chaqa?

I'll vote my viable scumreads as close to EOD as I can be here. But I'm frustrated that you've been on the chopping block before. And you're scummy as all get out. But I can't get people to engage. Vecna shouts it all down with nothing to back it up.