M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[Chaqa]

It's just a read. I've played mafia with ghug for years and I haven't had any inkling of scumminess at all this game.

I'll admit, I'm generally not the best scum-hunter, but I do find townreads very well and I've gotten scumread and killed for defending people in the past. A cursory search of history should show plenty of examples, such as defending EMC in the Neighborizer game.

[Chaqa]

Also ghug has a scum tell lol, though last game I didn't catch him doing it

[ghug]

Also ghug has a scum tell lol, though last game I didn't catch him doing it

Is it winning?

[Chaqa]

Also ghug has a scum tell lol, though last game I didn't catch him doing it

Is it winning?

I still I was given that gun so I could have shot Durga.

It would have been a crowning achievement

[kgray]

@ghug if you are town, you are being buddied. This is just a louder version of what you did to me last game.

[ghug]

At this point I'm thinking the scum are kgray, rdr, Seth, and someone I'm mistakenly townreading.

This would mean kgray and rdr have been willing to bus today, but that seems pretty plausible.

[ghug]

@ghug if you are town, you are being buddied. This is just a louder version of what you did to me last game.

If you have a guilty on Chaqa, you should also just claim it now.

You've both been scumreading each other with such casual confidence for so long, and I expect that behavior way more from Chaqa.

[Chaqa]

At this point I'm thinking the scum are kgray, rdr, Seth, and someone I'm mistakenly townreading.

This would mean kgray and rdr have been willing to bus today, but that seems pretty plausible.

I had a recollection of RDR as a busser in a previous game, but I think someone (Bozo???) did some numbers on it and found he wasn't. I could be misremembering.

If I had to throw a list out there, it would be Kgray, Seth, Bunny, and like Dargo or Damo or someone that I'm thinking is a townlean right now

[Chaqa]

@ghug if you are town, you are being buddied. This is just a louder version of what you did to me last game.

If you have a guilty on Chaqa, you should also just claim it now.

You've both been scumreading each other with such casual confidence for so long, and I expect that behavior way more from Chaqa.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if a massclaim of all info isn't needed today or next day phase in order to figure this out.

[kgray]

@ghug if you are town, you are being buddied. This is just a louder version of what you did to me last game.

If you have a guilty on Chaqa, you should also just claim it now.

You've both been scumreading each other with such casual confidence for so long, and I expect that behavior way more from Chaqa.

I don't have a guilty on Chaqa, I'm just really certain I'm right.

[ghug]

At this point I'm thinking the scum are kgray, rdr, Seth, and someone I'm mistakenly townreading.

This would mean kgray and rdr have been willing to bus today, but that seems pretty plausible.

I had a recollection of RDR as a busser in a previous game, but I think someone (Bozo???) did some numbers on it and found he wasn't. I could be misremembering.

If I had to throw a list out there, it would be Kgray, Seth, Bunny, and like Dargo or Damo or someone that I'm thinking is a townlean right now

This is the time when even non-bussers bus. Day before KILO is exactly when rdr and I started voting for each other when we were scum together.

[ghug]

@ghug if you are town, you are being buddied. This is just a louder version of what you did to me last game.

If you have a guilty on Chaqa, you should also just claim it now.

You've both been scumreading each other with such casual confidence for so long, and I expect that behavior way more from Chaqa.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if a massclaim of all info isn't needed today or next day phase in order to figure this out.

Probably tomorrow. Definitely tomorrow if we miskill today.

[ghug]

@ghug if you are town, you are being buddied. This is just a louder version of what you did to me last game.

If you have a guilty on Chaqa, you should also just claim it now.

You've both been scumreading each other with such casual confidence for so long, and I expect that behavior way more from Chaqa.

I don't have a guilty on Chaqa, I'm just really certain I'm right.

Why?

[kgray]

If you have a guilty on Chaqa, you should also just claim it now.

You've both been scumreading each other with such casual confidence for so long, and I expect that behavior way more from Chaqa.

I don't have a guilty on Chaqa, I'm just really certain I'm right.

Why?

Really? Have you not been reading everything I've been saying about how he echoed a bunch of people's vague scumreads of me and has done nothing but focus on that all game? I also think he scumslipped, but I can't really be sure about that.

Do you really think your alignment is so easy to determine that Chaqa can be this confident in his townread of you?

[BunnyGo]

rdrivera/damo...
I have strongly townread damo all game. I even changed my 'use plan' for my fruit based on HIS (and others' description/advice... but really mostly HIS not performing as i expected...) announcement of the fruit. This morning, I am thinking that I have some bias going. His argument about Jamie is faulty, yes. I am not sure that is AI, though. He is picking holes in the prevailing reasoning, but that is very damo, yes? I am not ready to vote for him.

rdrivera has not made an impression on me. It doesn't seem likely to me that scum would choose that role. But maybe teacon (et al) are right. IF scum had chosen rdr's role, it would have had the result we presently have. Rdr seems 'safe.' AND he would have low-boiled the entire game? I don't know... he might have, as scum, tried to take an active town-leader persona.

I do not really see either likely.

You did never explain your "use plan' either. The only 'use plan' I see could be to negate a doctor save...

I did describe that. My "use plan" was to use the FV to send out fruit to my top townreads... and if/when they eventually townread me, I could be confirmed. This was NOT a 'wow what a great plan' idea. I just couldn't figure out what to do with it. I expected that only scum would announce they got a fruit. Mostly, now in retrospect, because of the way I saw my use of fruit. SO when I sent my fruit to my top towhnread, and he ANNOUNCED it... i had to go back and read him. I still didn't see scum in him. AND the reasons that he (and others) gave about the use of my FV made some sense. But with some hesitation I sent fruit again.... to my top town read. And THIS person acted Like I had hinted/stated was my expectation (silence... but with a subtle hint) But having hinted/stated, I wasn't sure how to read it. Fruit Vendor meet Wifom. The room seemed to think I should not muddy the movement-waters at night with fruit, so I did not send it N3.

That’s a terrible plan. But it’s so bad I’m having trouble thinking scum would play it that way.

[BunnyGo]

Regarding Bunny (welcome back, Bunny!)
It seems to me (unless I am missing his point) that his scumread on me is based on my Fruit Vending.

Don't forget, bun, that the roles in this game are not AI. I do agree that FV would be more useful to scum than to town. That doesn't mean they chose it though. I do agree also that it is pretty useless to us. I gave fruit twice, and all it was able to confirm is that i gave fruit to someone. ::shrug:: I don't think that even as a water-muddying-role, this occupation would have been that helpful to scum. Especially if they focused on removing from us the tracking-observing type roles.

It's true, it isn't AI. I'm still stuck on you for your posts when sugar lows affected your mental state. I probably need a reset there.

It wasn't JUST that you're fruit vendor. It was that you were fruit vendor asking for double voter to claim while saying "our doctors can protect him." It was as if you completely forgot the one application of your role (just after you posted you HAD an idea how to play your role).

did i miss something about how the FV works?

Yes. It counts as protective and so can cancel a potential doctor save.

That said, the fact people have been receiving fruit suggests that scum dargo wasn’t using it that way. The fact that he claims he didn’t give out any last night strongly suggests scum dargo finally decided to give it to Maniac to make sure he wasn’t saved. Considering who scum killed first two nights, they may have decided not to use it then as cover.

[ghug]

I don't have a guilty on Chaqa, I'm just really certain I'm right.

Why?

Really? Have you not been reading everything I've been saying about how he echoed a bunch of people's vague scumreads of me and has done nothing but focus on that all game? I also think he scumslipped, but I can't really be sure about that.

Do you really think your alignment is so easy to determine that Chaqa can be this confident in his townread of you?

But why are you so disproportionately confident? Your EoN read on him was literally "duh". I expect Chaqa to be more confident than he should be. It seems weirder from you.

[BunnyGo]

rdrivera/damo...
I have strongly townread damo all game. I even changed my 'use plan' for my fruit based on HIS (and others' description/advice... but really mostly HIS not performing as i expected...) announcement of the fruit. This morning, I am thinking that I have some bias going. His argument about Jamie is faulty, yes. I am not sure that is AI, though. He is picking holes in the prevailing reasoning, but that is very damo, yes? I am not ready to vote for him.

rdrivera has not made an impression on me. It doesn't seem likely to me that scum would choose that role. But maybe teacon (et al) are right. IF scum had chosen rdr's role, it would have had the result we presently have. Rdr seems 'safe.' AND he would have low-boiled the entire game? I don't know... he might have, as scum, tried to take an active town-leader persona.

I do not really see either likely.

You did never explain your "use plan' either. The only 'use plan' I see could be to negate a doctor save...

You probably are misunderstanding the FV action. It does nothing beside just sent some flavourtext to a person, it has the potential to be flagged by my role, and it prevents scum from doing both fruit'ing and faction-action in the same night.

Its just a negative utility role for scum if it gets down to 1 person

No. It’s a strongman role.

[BunnyGo]

But yeah, I can see why damo/bunny is susp of you Darg

Your role is effectively an unlimited strongman that can kill anything except the commuter.

Downside being ofcourse that if its used that way you instantly die in a massclaim

Ok...he got there. And the fact he claims not to have used it N3 is exactly what hed claim if using it to strongman Maniac

[kgray]

Why?

Really? Have you not been reading everything I've been saying about how he echoed a bunch of people's vague scumreads of me and has done nothing but focus on that all game? I also think he scumslipped, but I can't really be sure about that.

Do you really think your alignment is so easy to determine that Chaqa can be this confident in his townread of you?

But why are you so disproportionately confident? Your EoN read on him was literally "duh". I expect Chaqa to be more confident than he should be. It seems weirder from you.

I meant 'duh' as in why I scumread him was 'duh' because I'd been pretty vocal about it. And I don't know why I'm so confident, it just seems really obvious to me. Maybe because I'm the person he's been tunneling and I know I'm town so it's more clear to me that his reasons to scumread me are bad. Maybe it's because people weren't listening to me, and if he were town then I'm sure scum would have supported my incorrect read of him. Or maybe I'm just bitter that people haven't been listening to me and I'm being defensive.